Update on the War in the North

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I read that as "the CFC was finally able to bathe in something other than Cheetos" :cripes:
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There are 2 winning sides to this war pending on which war you are looking at.NCDot is clearly winning the ISK war. But with all ISK wars, it's relative. 500bil ISK lost to NCDot does not have the same effect as 500bil ISK lost to the CFC. (Just an example). But NCDot seems to be sitting pretty on this particular front.CFC is clearly winning the Territory war. Their sheer numbers and ease of deployment benefits them in taking the systems they are out to take. They are not pre-occupied with Killboards or the ISK war. They are focused on the Sov and that's what they are taking.In the end, I question whether or not there will actually be a "loser" after this. It depends on how you see it. NCDot may need to relocate to another area of Null or even NPC, but they will have taken far less damage than CFC in the long run.So, by eve definition, who will win this war?So exciting. ^_^
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So will ev0ke start flying with CFC?
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War is "won" by only one thing: The entire annihilation of your opponent.Anything else is a peace treaty and you can't have a winner in those as such, but you can count the benefits to each side.Since no-one has annihilated the other (yet) You need to focus on benefits you think each side will get after the war.If the CFC continues to curb stomp Tribute until it all falls under the mighty jackboot of the USSRCFC then the CFC has a lot to gain. I have no idea what is being planned for it, but the Tech Moons alone are worth a lot even after the price nerf. Plus the CFC gets a lot of security in its "deeper" regions from roamers. Who wants to roam through 2/3 hostile regions just to get to Deklein? They may have spent a load of money on it, and they may have lost more ships (no idea haven't even looked) but it's inconsequential. Unlike a real war massive fights boost CFC morale not lower it, and scores of dead "soldiers" do not need replacing with fresh troopers.On the other hand what can NC. and its allies take from this war? So they caused more isk worth of damage then the CFC but it has still cost them. Even if we assumed that it had cost NC. 100 times less to wage the war then the CFC, what position will they be in? Well they can head to NPC Null or something, but will their alliance survive that?Overall this is a game, and I think both sides have got what ultimately the game is about: fun. However has the price paid by NC. been too much? After the fun is all over the CFC will probably end up in another war before too long and get more fun, but in my opinion NC. is risking marginalising itself to small gang PvP without holding sov, and as soon as it starts losing players looking for a large-ish sov holding alliance (as thats what they enjoy) I'm not sure they'll bounce back.
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This was the nasty Sov grind I expected in Branch. So yea. Both sides will keep playing who fucks up, and then Capitalizes. In the Long term, well...Whats that game you Brit's play? Conkers?
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Do Goons jumping to hostile cyno count as "Goons being scammed" ? xDI wonder if the CFC will go to Vale after Tribute... like they did for Branch/Tenal.
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While I am and will always be GoonSwarm in heart and mind, I can't help but thank Team NOTECH for relieving the more retarded people of the CFC of their capitals. Bravo, you guys are doing God's work.
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You are absolutely correct. This is the first war in a long time I've seen that brought the "fun" back into the Fights. Ultimately, the Goons are the favorite for taking the Sov. But NCDot is the favorite for destroying the most ISK.Even if they lose all of their Sov, they will still have the bragging rights of thrashing the Goons wallets.I myself am pro-Goon.But that doesn't automatically make me anti-NC. Both are respectable alliances. NCDot with respectable skill pools and Goons with respectable numbers and respectable leadership. (Shameless plug for the one and only mittens)I guess ultimately, I'm jelous of this war because it does appear to be tons of fun. Good fights everywhere.
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Isk war does not mean anything during sov battles unless you are imposing so much value damage that the enemy side cannot sustain activities and thus allowing you to win the sov war. The ultimate goal is the sov.
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well given that ncdot declared they don't care about the sov... from our perspective isk war doesn't matter. from their perspective sov war doesn't matter.personally, I reckon cfc wins if they can keep members from burning out, while still taking space+moons+ not losing to many titans under hilarious circumstances.I reckon ncdot is winning their war because they have a great number of nice kills on their way out to npc nullsec. (didn't want that space anyway argument)
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the dread we killed was unfortunately a consolation prize as we were seconds away from catching a lone wyvern, but still nice to kill a dread i guess
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The point isn't that to decide who is winning you cannot look at how things ARE look at how they will be AFTER the war.Both sides get plenty of fights or whatever but then what? If both sides went into the war, had loads of Good Fights™ and came out of it no worse off that's basically a war without a loser (unlike real life where both sides generally lose).However I think the Goons will be able to look back and say "That was a good war!" whereas NC. will remember it as the war that killed the alliance. I don't think they are just having fight son the way out of sov holding, I think this is their twilight hour. Sure go down in a blaze of glory, but you (/they, whatever) can't claim victory.
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Again, in relation to my above post NC. are not winning, nor can they claim to be. This is a game and the ultimate goal of any Alliance is to carry on allowing its members to have fun. Thats what the CFC and NC. are doing at the moment, but when the dust settles which one will be able to do it all over again with someone else, and who will be left stuck in NPC space?If NC. kill more isk then they lose, then barge someone else out of their NullSec space and take it (though technically they wouldn't be northern anymore) I'd be willing to accept that argument. Alternatively if NC. are still around 12 months from now I will also be prepared to accept that argument.
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Bake them and then soak them in clear nail polish. Thats the way to cheat at conkers ;)
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ecks dee
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NCdot was formed in NPC space do not forget that. No one, not even Vince Draken, expected NCdot to ever hold valuable space. NCdot is just another iteration of Triumvirate out to get goodfites and grind killmails. It's what they do. It's their legacy. It's what they will go back to doing when/if they loose Tribute. If you believe NCdot will fold because they loose the space they never expected to get in the first, then you have absolutely no clue about what drives a PvP-alliance.The only thing that could kill NCdot would be a bad killboard effiency. Seeing as they're currently fighting goons that aint gonna happen. The holding-space-game is not what drives a PvP entity. Sure no one would say no to free tech, but holding space and getting no goodfites is worse to a PvP-alliance then vice versa. Goons just doesn't understand because they're obviously playing a different game.
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Exactly. I didn't see your post before I wrote pretty much the same thing myself.
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Slowcat doctrine is actually an iteration on Pantheon carrier tactics developed by Rooks and Kings. PL were just the first group to put them into large-scale usage.
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EVE Online is a sandbox. Part of being a sandbox is allowing players to set their own goals. That means that two opposing sides can each achieve "victory" (ie reaching their goals) in the same conflict.As for Joseph's comment about "cfc wins if they can keep members from burning out, while still taking space+moons+ not losing to many titans under hilarious circumstances", losing too many Titans is one thing, but losing Titans *under hilarious circumstances* is fun for both sides (just less so for the dude taking the actual loss).
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NC. grunts live for small to med scale PVP, epic hotdrops and "good fights". Remember they spent more time over the last year away from their SOV systems than it them. It's not like all NC. guys don't have caps and 70%+ don't have supers. They get almost complete reimbursements for losses. Not really anything to grind for for the vast majority of them and not much reason to PVE.
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@How? Already been said to you but you seem to fail at reading or even thinking. NCDot was formed in NPC space they always have been a nomadic alliance, so it would go without saying that they are not going to die out cause they lost there space. What might happen if anything, would be NCDot reforming to another iteration of Tri.
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welcome to Providence dots!
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When was the last time a region was successfully defended, particularly when the odds were against the defenders? Don't tell me -A-, thats a load of B.S. TEST seems to be holding its own currently, but their opponents are not exactly competent. I guess it would have to be Solar, when against Xdeath and PL. It is an uncommon occurence, which I do not see NCdot being able to replicate.A truly "good" alliance seems to be defined by its ability to maintain itself even in the face of losing a regional identity. If people were together only for the rats or the pride of holding a certain area, or are just not-so-great at being organized, they fall apart. IT, WN, the vast majority of the old NC (excluding Rzr). NCdot is among such alliances; without their space they will not fail, or at least, not because of the space. Perhaps their conglomeration of faggotry, e.g. Lady Scarlet, Vince Draken, newcomer Riverini et. al. will finally ruin NCdot's space confederacy, but I doubt it would be soon.More people need to attack the CFC in earnest, though. The time of the siege of VFK and immediately after were great; all the ratters had left, leaving only the people you want in an alliance. The fighters, logisticians, the hardened core. The CFC has ballooned again, and needs a good challenge to shake off the excess.
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So you come to Tribute, not the hugest of areas. I'll guess you go near HW, thats where you see 50 to lots more people on map. Then wonder why all those people get really active when a ping goes out, hostile gang 3 jumps away, lets go ladies. You are an idiot.
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Thus far ev0ke has been flying with NC.
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NCdot knows that they will lose their Sov, that there is nothing to do Sov-wise against the mega blob, if you define winning as winning the Sov war then CFC/HBC has won Eve (and Eve has lost imo, as you can travel through half of 0.0 and only meet blues).NCdot are not the carebears we were in the old northern coalition, so your reaction back then is irrelevant. If NCdot win the fights, then they are happy, if they keep Sov in a station system, or keep a tech moon for another week, it's just a bonus.
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You might be right, in my opinion when an alliance gets to the "we live out of NPC space to get good fights" stage they tend to either die out or marginalise themselves to a point where they aren't a big player anymore.There are exceptions, I mean look at Pandemic Legion. By and large though I think it happens more often than it doesn't.I'm not a spy so I don't know enough about NCDot's finances, members base etc. but regardless of why it was founded it's been holding sov for a long time, and there I'm betting without it a good chunk of their players will get bored and leave.They'll either be like "we didn't want those players anyway" and try to become a lean, mean PvP corp or they will just slowly die out in my view. However even if they do the former they will no longer be someone "important" to consider, more of an annoyance.I get the whole "not everyone wants to hold sov thing", but as I understand NCDot have held sov for a while now, switching back to not having it will be difficult for a lot of members.
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Killboard Efficiency for August, 2012(courtesy of eve-kill.net)Northern Coalition. 75.02%Northern Associates 90.06%The Methodical Alliance 83.79%Goonswarm Federation 78.32%Fatal Ascension 82.97%RAZOR Alliance 81.07%Tactical Narcotics Teams 92.4%Get Off My Lawn 83.91%Fidelas Constans 82.63%SpaceMonkey's Alliance 86.44%Gentlemen's Agreement 93.26%Not all entities in this war are concerned with killboard statistics. However, looking at the actual data, it's not as one sided as individuals seem to indicate.
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killboard % for individual alliances in coalition wars gives zero value... just FYI
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Being too lazy to average out those percentages... FYI
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And by lesser alliances, he means basically 90% of NCdot's pets. Just puting that out there. :)
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I think no one in their right mind would expect to successfully defend sov vs Goons nowadays. All parties on the NC. side came around to have some good fights, and good fights were had.PVP entities see towers and territory as a good possibility to cause fights. We don't regard fueling towers or ratting in belts as our favourite past time in EVE.
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I can read and think just fine thanks. You failed to read my post where I said I'll be prepared to accept the argument that they "won" if their alliance is around in 8-12 months time and it's still as strong as it is now.Regardless who what you want to do in EVE (or at least what you say you want to do) if your numbers dwindle or your alliance collapses you've lost. If their numbers stay strong and they stick around fair play to them.

With UMI-KK station flipped and in goon hands, there was a bit of a lull in activities as the CFC was finally able to bathe and eat something other than Cheetos, rather than camp the UMI station. It was a much-needed break for some, but for others it was the worst thing that could happen. With no one to lead them, Darwin Award nominees began dying needlessly in capital ships. These pilots joined fleets titled "UMI cyno for moving" and jumped to the cyno, where they quickly learned that the fleet they had joined was actually hostile. Others would undock, accept fleet invites and get warped off the station to their death. A more detailed report of their stupidity will be released soon.

Once NC. ran out of stupid carriers to kill, they moved onto stupid subcaps by camping the UMI station with two fleets of Tornados where they picked off stragglers and disrupted the karma of ship spinners. What NC. did not know, however, is that I was set up to bomb their group of Tornados sitting at 0 speed in a clump together. Like Christmas presents they sat there as I began to probe them down only to realize that my hands no longer worked and I was not able to open the presents - my probes were bugged. After relogging 3 times, leaving and entering system and even deploying a different assortment of probes I was still unable to get them to work. My window ran out as the CFC undocked "dasboot" (sentry carriers, more commonly known as 'slowcats', invented by Pandemic Legion) to deal with the NC. tornados. NC. soon left system after getting bored, scared, or scabored, whatever you want to call it.

After the lull ended, the CFC was once again greeted with multiple timers throughout the day. Most timers were met with little to no resistance as our fleets blotted out the sun. Monday, Sept 3rd, however, was slightly different. Hostiles formed welpests (tempests with heavy neuts designed to kill capitals) and the CFC fleet became rightly cautious while reinforcing systems in Tribute. As some supercapitals and dreadnoughts returned to UMI because it was getting late, these NCdot welpests pounced. Their target was a dreadnought who forgot to warp after jumping back into UMI. The Moros melted; well-executed guerilla warfare tactics from the dotBros.

While things were being reinforced, Vily took his tornado fleet and camped the H-W9TY station. After a long period of nothing happening, NCdot themselves undocked... dasboot carriers! The irony in that was not lost on most, including myself. With all objectives completed and the tornados unable to really do anything, the CFC headed back to UMI. A day full of intermittent fighting finally ended with quite a bit of shit talking from both sides.

In late US TZ, NCdot onlined a number of SBU's across the CFC-held systems in Tribute and sieged two iHubs into shield timers. At the time of publication, there are twenty-three NCdot/The Methodical Alliance structures in reinforced mode: eight stations, thirteen iHubs, and two towers; there are two CFC iHubs in reinforced.

Kcolor, primary cap FC of the CFC. @KcolorCFC Did I interest you in EVE? http://tinyurl.com/cff4nrd Did I interest you in LoL? http://tinyurl.com/b9ezx8h