Solar/Fazor vs N3: The U930 Massacre

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I was.. not there, damn it.
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Vince was obviously talking about the Spartans fighting heavily outnumbered in Salamis and winning the fleet battle, obviously. Shadoo was just thinking of the wrong battle.
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I was there, in abaddon that went POP, was good fun, Solar were very well orginized, credit to them. Lets see what happens when we get that dam cyno gen down
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A Russian alliance bailing out and leaving their non-RUS allies to die. Such a thing has never happened in EVE before! Why do people keep trusting RA?
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Lol stupid
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Forest for trees, etc.
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Every caracal counts.
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abaddons shoot the weak resist of the loki's logi's tho... which is guardians \o/. I can haz learn to EvE
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I believe salamis was fought by the athenian navy while the spartans piddled around on land.
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Mostly the Athenian navy, yeah. Some Spartan ships were... you're ruining the joke.
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So you're really Pinky, not Brain. ;)
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I was explicit in stating that while the Caracals were shit, they still project enough damage to be a serious threat. On top of that, having to shoot at 40 mil ships rather than stuff that was actually hurting is a very effective tactic. Especially with Rokhs that don't have a particularly good sensor strength.
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Honestly with that many caps on field it would have been hard to win no matter what. The only way to effectively counter blap dreads and slowcats is with either of the two or supers (which N3 are hesitant to bring to fights or we'll get even more massive blueballs).
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If you think I have respect for Fazor you're sadly mistaken. I do have to give them props for the tactic (which TEST employed in the Delve war) of having meatshields that you have to shoot but really don't want to. From what I understand their timing was also quite good.
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it is also kinda hard to bring in caps in a jammed system once it's clear that solar actually wants to fight ;)
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What does a Rokh's sensor strength have to do with the Abaddons shooting Caracals?
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Once a meatshield, always a meatshield.
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Baddons have terrible sensor strength even with the sensor booster. The point is, you don't want to shoot T1 cruisers with battleships.
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Scan res...
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Ah, I get it now, he means scan resolution.
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There's also tracking speed, We weren't expecting to win anything. In fact, before we left E02 I let all the pilots know that we were on a suicide mission. Not clearing us off would have been a bad move for N3./PLThe real winners in this fight were Solar's bombers. I doubt we had much effect on the overall outcome, we did have fun however.
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Take it from the man himself. Caracal's aren't something to ignore DPS-wise, we had a short brawl with them and abaddons the other day, and the caracals could nearly alpha the baddons.
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Cause SOLAR is definitely the alliance all others are compared to /sarcasm
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Seriously guys? This is a game. Both sides want to have fun, and they did.
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A non-RUS alliances send their Russian allies through heavly camped gate to die. Such a thing has never happened in EVE before! Why do people keep trusting PL/NC?
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Uhm, did you even read the battle report? RA jumped in before they were supposed to. No-one sent them to die, they just epic failed on us.
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Oh yeah my bad, surely 80 buffed caracals would be a viable fleet against abbadons.
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By that logic you might aswell have brought 100 rifters...
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I'm glad Fazor are out there having fun, that's the most important thing, I'm just saddened to see them not being as much of a factor as I hoped they would be.
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Except rifters aren't a threat to baddons, they don't do enough DPS. Caracals are another story.
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RA did not jump first. :) But wow ok :)
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Actually I watched PL and NC jump in first with my own two eyes :) .. I waited 60 seconds then tidi idle for another 6 or 7
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Tell me all about Caracals being a viable counter to abbadons.
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I'm not saying Caracals are bad, I'm saying they're bad for these kinds of engagements, that video (Which I've already seen) isn't evidence against that.
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Logistics.
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Smartbombs
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Not sure I understand this post. From the wording it sounds like a great victor for SOLAR, but the kb seems to contradict all that was said: http://northern-coalition.co.u...

SOLAR FRONT STILL ALIVE

After the recent N3 coalition update, combat in the Eastern War has ramped up significantly. The number of SBUs being placed has increased dramatically, with the apparent hope that eventually a significant system might harbor a good fight along the way. U930-A turned out to be one of those systems.

N3, supplemented by a 100 man Pandemic Legion Navy Dominix fleet, headed out with a 250 man Rokh fleet (modified with target breakers, blasters, and no propulsion modules) and roughly 130 Abaddons. 30-40 Red Alliance Rokhs joined in, along with various logistics and support ships. Early scouting reported the SOLAR fleet consisted of 110 Lokis and assorted Legions and Proteus, with logistics managed for by 30 Guardians and about 40 Slowcats. SOLAR's heavy hitters were available as well: 20-30 blap dreads. Additionally, N3 detected at least 30 hostile bombers in system before the battle. Razor & FA, meanwhile, finally showed up to help their allies and added 80 or so Caracals, and various Solar allies added a similar number of welpcanes and Drakes. A truly titanic battle was imminent. N3 & co. met up in the adjacent system expecting to fight directly on the enemy gate.

[]

The Solar capital fleet ready to wreak havoc

 

WHOOPS

The fight got off to an early and unexpected start when RA jumped in before everyone was ready. Within a minute, RA had lost over a third of their fleet having to deal with over 400 ships directing fire straight at them (these were mostly ships that uncloaked accidentally or because enemies were close). In an attempt to spread Solar damage and save allies, Vince Draken decided to jump the rest of the fleet through. The gate was heavily bubbled and the system cynojammed. Vince Draken had to examine the possibilities open to him: either destroy the bubbles and try to ninja the cyno jammer, or stay and fight. Thinking that the battle was winnable, Vince chose to stay.

Credit must be given: Solar pulled every defensive trick in the book. The number of blap dreads on field meant that battleships were getting easily alphaed. Bombers deployed neutralizing bombs that made most ships' tank dissappear. The next bomber wave consisted of damage bombs, leaving most battleships in deep shield. Initially Vince believed that reps were holding, but he was unaware that Solar was focusing on PL's Navy Dominixes and that logistics could barely keep Vince's Rokhs alive with Solar's fire getting split. 

OUCH

At this stage the fight became a slaughter on both sides. FA/Razor jumped in with their Caracal fleet and proceeded to get shot at point-blank by blaster Rokhs with predictable results. PL started to jump out with what few Navy Domis were left, and the Rokh/Abaddon fleet started taking the majority of the fire. Respect goes to Solar for not deciding to kill off the FCs. Already under huge pressure, the Rokhs were dealt a killer blow by yet another wave of neuting and then damage bombs. This last run killed the majority of the battleships left on field, and the rest immediately decided to bug out with very few surviving.

Since they had held the field Solar ended the fight by promptly killing N3's sovereignty blockade units, repairing their ihub, and reinforcing the N3 staging tower. The battle report shows that this was a decidedly one-sided fight. Close to 300 N3 and allied ships died to Solar's 100, most of which were cheap-as-chips Caracals. Close to 70 billion isk's worth of ships died, which by today's standards made it a very respectful subcapital fight.

ANALYSIS

By all accounts, Solar led the perfect Sov defense. Their forces were well deployed to defend: all ships were in optimal positions on the gate, the gate was significantly bubbled, and the system was cynojammed. The FA/Razor forces were well coordinated and jumped into the system at the one stage where Solar was under threat, forcing the Rokhs to shoot worthless Caracals instead of 600 million isk Lokis. Solar's bombing wing in particular performed admirably, repeatedly kicking the N3 forces while they were already under a lot of pressure.

The most glaring issue with the N3 attack was the lack of coordination. RA's early jump put their allies on the back foot and immediately reduced their numbers. The fact that Vince was unaware of the total damage output of the Solar fleet (and the quick loss of his PL allies) likely led him to continue fighting when he should have backtracked or changed tactics. While the Rokh fitting might seem odd (Rokhs are more commonly seen with an MWD, cap booster, and Railguns), it was perfect for this kind of short-range brawl on the gate. The fight was never going to be easy given Solar's clear capital advantage. Finally, Abaddons, which do primarly EM damage, were quite possibly the worst choice to use against Lokis that have close to 95% EM resists. Despite this, N3 forces were still managing to put T3s into deep armour or structure before they were saved by logistics.

WHAT THEY SAID

Clearly jumping into such a well-defended gate was risky. When asked why he would choose to do so, Elise Randolph replied: "You have to risk it to get the biscuit!"

It's also great to see that even FCs like Vince Draken get things put clearly to them:

Vince Draken: "Somewhat ballsy move by NC. fleet commander Vince and the PL fleet commander Mr. Randolph. I felt like a Spartan."

Shadoo: "Spartans took an army down with them. You just sat there and died like ***** women at a *******************."

Let's hope there's a round two!

 

BRDOC Report

[name_1]
Member of Nulli Secunda. Have been playing Eve for close to four years, already hit by bittervet syndrome. I've played a number of games over the years and generally dab in every game that's fun.