Let's Argue: CSM Season Coverage

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Did I hear gambling on winners? Because I think I heard gambling.
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I say cover as long as you can provide that extra to your current level of posting. Would like to see more from the site, Your doing great already don't get me wrong. This is one caps view
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I would like a simple checklist of the top ten issues facing an eve online player and where each candidate stands (for/against/indifferent-doesnt care) such as: 0.0 fixes, pos fixes, tiericide, supercaps, power projection, Dominion Sovereignty sytems, drastic changes to existing systems like ring mining and moongoo. The posts a candidate makes in Jita Park announcing their candidacy are useless as they promise all things to all people. Maybe an editorial roundup.
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jack "jack gates" gates needs more coverage
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Only bad candidates promise all the things to all the people, or even some of the things to some of the people.
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"We have several contributors on the site who are, however, running for spots - Mynnna, James 315, and Kesper North"Did you forget Malcanis?
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Drama? You're asking EVE players if they want to hear about drama?Silly rabbit...bring the drama!
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Not nexessarily the most constructive post I've ever made, but whatever coverage TMDC provides, the responding emergent drama will be entertaining regardless!
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This is true, however- Jita Park is a morass that needs not be waded through. My two votes will probably go your way since you are intimately familiar with the issues facing GSF 0.0 residents, I just think the unwashed masses could decipher a chart or a checkbox poll better :sun:
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I'd like fairly in-depth coverage with interviews and polls and stuff like a proper election, but in reality the only thing we absolutely NEED covering is any hilarious candidate meltdowns and hissyfits the election season brings.
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Posted while I was writing my own response! My thoughts exactly, however.Hm, I wonder whicb flavour of tinfoil hat is more in season this year: the Wizard Cone of CCP Favourtism, or the Classic Dome of Rigged Vote Counts?
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What do people think about article submissions by the candidates themselves, either those who are regular contributors to the site or just candidates?For my part I'd be happy to see topical articles and/or "about me and my candidacy" postings providing the editors make a point of both properly labeling them and rejecting submissions that are, well, just not good reading (I don't want a thousand self-written Meet Candidate 342 articles that are just dull).P.S. And no, Kesper didn't ask me to post this =p
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The longer I think about it (over the long span of *several minutes* now) the more inclined I am towards simply applying the same rules as ever. In short: if it's a good article, post it. If not, don't.But I posted a question first and my own thoughts second. I'm still curious what others think.
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Well-done interviews are fine. Interviews asking how an omnipotent CSM would change EVE are a waste of time. I am interested in how the candidates think they can best serve as a customer advocate.
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As long as it is an interesting article and not just a copy/paste from their Jita Park thread. I have a feeling that most of the, how should I put it, lower tier candidates will be a snooze fest.
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Yes, I care, because Jita Park is a cesspit worse than GD and Reddit combined.
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This would conveniently be a great time to get those TMDC forums up.
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Disqus is close enough.
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+1 would like to hear more.
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Toilet reading is toilet reading... bring on the eve election news...Also, a list of the most anti-carebear/pro-pvp candidates in order from best to worst would be nice as like many others I am a lazy P.O.S. who doesn't want to read through the crazy amount of people who get 200 votes. Also, based on this new voting system there is the real possibility of having a fully PvP oriented CSM
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I'm half-interested in the election as a spectator sport, but please just leave the Xenuria thing alone. His candidacy is kind of tragic.
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I've always been a big fan of the ponies.So, there's my vote for the horse race. (Maybe Nate Silver plays EVE?)
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An overview of the candidates likely to have an actual chance of getting on the CSM would be nice, with brief notes describing what they do in EVE, the major things they'd work for on the CSM and who is likely to back them.
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Please, for the love of God and all that is holy, no candidate interviews. I would rather shove flaming skewers in my eyes than try to read another of Darius' bullshit sperging tirades about scamming his way through the election again. Besides, just like in real politics, all the candidates just regurgitate the same inane party line crap that their constituency wants to hear anyways. In fact, I think that the less we hear directly from the candidates themselves the better. The focus should be on what they have already said and done for EVE before they decided to run for CSM, not what rhetoric they can pull out of there asses while in the spotlight.
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I'd love to hear something like a quick paragraph about each of the candidates, so I can at least get an idea of where everyone stands (preferrably not self written) and some kind of history on them!
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An article or two on who the runners are is all you need, really. The majority of nullsec will be rallying around their coalition(s)'s candidate(s) of choice, and low/highsec around their candidate of choice as well. CFC/HBC/ETC are all guaranteed some spots, the question is who will fill the last 5 or so slots of the csm?
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Someone call Nate Silver at the New York Times! We need some number crunching done!OH and yeah, whats not to love about election season. Listening to candidates defend themselves against complete misrepresentations of their positions is hilarious.Like... "Why do Trebor and Ripard want to change EvE into WoW in space?""Mynnna will only help Goonswarm""James315 wants to destroy all of high sec"... (this one may be true tbh). "Roc Wieler wants to biomass every Amarr toon (while doing squats)"etc etc.
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Working on it, that's our next dev deathmarch!
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What software are you guys planning to use?
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I would hope that TMC would cover the CSM8 elections. It would be nice to have all of the cadidates information in one place, posted for all to see. Especially since a lot of people that vote are not properly educated on the candidates and their backgrounds. This should include background checks/analysis on each candidate. It is true that we probably do not want a talking head interview between the candidates and TMC correspondants, however, it is necessary for anyone paying attention to the CSM8 to somehow know the candidates.
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I was just about to suggest a chart that classifies each candidate over a number of fields pertaining to issues, their corp/alliance/coalition affiliations, backgrounds and who represents their constituency.
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I do feel like Trebor wants to change EVE into WoW in space. It is for this reason that I hope he does not get re-elected.
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Personally I dont think it matters because the CSM doesnt accomplish dick and never will. the real value of the CSM is when certain people from 0.0 get elected or certain people from certain alliances DRIVES PUBBIES FUCKIN NUTS the drama is amazing, and they will sperg about it and develop tinfoil hat theories all year long.
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Any articles written to TMC by potential CSM's should be posted, ESPECIALLY if they are bad.
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We're not doing candidate interviews, they're both tedious and irrelevant. A whole host of podcasts think they matter, we'll leave that to them.
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We'll only bother with real candidates with a shot in hell of being elected.
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If we flat-out endorsed certain candidates (a list of candidates, as with STV we can vote for multiples this year) would people scream EVIL GOON BIAS or would it be useful?
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It might be both. It's hard to imagine any endorsements that came out of this site (which does bear your name after all) not getting accused of being Goon propaganda. That said, if the endorsement(s) were well reasoned and well argued it might still be a useful thing to do. If you're marketing this site as a bastion of intelligent discourse on EvE then I don't know why you would not want to engage in that discussion. In the end you will either prove to transcend the Goon flavor of your handle or you won't, but you can't hide from the name forever.
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Obviously I think the CSM is important and should be covered ^^ but as a sitting CSM I'm not the best to report the news I'm involved in, and thus I stay away from EVE writing (I'm on the League of Legends section of TMC). I encourage TMC to give a unique take/approach to CSM coverageAs for my personal contribution, I'm writing a reflection piece looking back on the CSM7 term. It'll be a blatant editorial, but I'm hoping the scope and quality will make the grade for publication on TMC (and if not, I'll just toss it on my own obscure blog ;p)
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I don't know if either of these two are running this year (I'm pretty sure mittens isn't) but I enjoyed listening to the Mitanni vs riverini last year. It was a little bit cruel and made me feel dirty - kind of like watching a snuff movie - but it was more entertaining than anything else. Please make it happen.
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Probably a better idea would be to report on candidates who are on the bloc ballots.
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Zander Phoena over at Crossing Zebras already has done quite a few interviews. He's asked hard questions and most of the shows are about 30 minutes so I'd say that angle is pretty well covered.
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You mean like Jack "Jack Gates" Gates?
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I think, if done properly, it would be an excellent addition to the usual TMC lineup. However, my first question would be where would said coverage be placed - under the 'News' heading or the 'Features' heading?Because I think you guys have a very unique opportunity here to actually do some good in helping grow (create?) as much of an 'informed' electorate as is possible in Eve if you decide to treat this as actual 'hard news' and not just providing a soapbox for any candidates who want to take advantage of the extra visibility. Make sure that you're open to any and all candidates who are willing to take this seriously, and not just the ones that the TMC staff might be personally behind. If you interview, make them good, hard-hitting interviews that discuss/clarify specific points on the basis of their factual validity (or as close to it as you can research). Quite a lot of candidates (J315 is obviously the one that springs to mind but all to an extent) have huge planks in their platforms built on a whole hell of a lot of anecdotal 'this is what I think is happening to Eve'. Who knows? Maybe you push hard enough, you might even get CCP to start releasing all those shiny numbers they used to give us again. :DWe're talking about a real election of pretend personas for a video game, stands to reason our real-fake news site can try to be as idealistically perfect as Sorkin's newsroom.THAT I'd want to see. What I wouldn't want to see is more 'here's a bunch of features from the candidates saying exactly the same thing they say on JP/their blog/podcast/whatever, have fun in the comment section!'Also, no worries about Ebil Goon Biases here. Just so that's out there. :)
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Well, if I were to answer the question at the end of the post...Cover it (a lot), go into as much depth as would seem interesting. I generally enjoy reading this site, so I figure you guys have a hold on what's "interesting". If anything, it'll be easy fodder for new writers to chew on. etc etc.If you're worried about the whole "bias" thing, tag articles as political, bust out the gaudy red warning text up top (Or better yet, a standard warning banner that when clicked leads to explanation of blah blah favoritism blargedy blarg goon conspiracy), and then the idiots who aren't skeptical of news in general and the tinfoilers will have their warning. That way Mynna can go ahead and keep writing articles that subtly suggest he's the superior CSM candidate (I enjoy reading them anyway).Then again, I've never seen much value in an "unbiased" publication, just as long as they aren't flat out lying, so there's always that.
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It'd be useful, though I'm a goon, so that's sort of moot. I suppose this would lead to:Would the endorsement list for themittani.com be the same as the Goonswarm/CFC endorsement list? If yes, then it's not very useful, and you might as well just do a news update with CFC's Endorsement List. (And other coalitions, for that matter). If no... Well, yes, it'd be useful I'm sure, but no matter how you implemented it, I'm sure nobody will be happy with it...The endorsements I'm sure would be based from the votings by your staff, correct? So then you'd have your staff write a blurb on why they voted the way they did. This would then forever be extrapolated and brought up whenever your staff wrote some piece somebody didn't like... So likely this would be an overall hindrance for your staff. If you just did an endorsement list, it wouldn't offer much insight into why.No idea what to do there.
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I dont care about these strutting cocks.
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Not sure yet, it's pretty much ipboard vs vbulletin but vb's licensing is awful so ???
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Mangala Solaris for CSM 8!
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I cannot get enough of the CSM, from interviews to background to debates. If I could only have one thing though, a clear and concise summary of what each candidate stands for, whp they represent and who their major backers are, if any.
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An overview of the primary basis/views each candidate is standing on/for would be good."Meet CSM candidate X" self written stuff as stated would be proper dull.I'd be more interested to see post mortem, what previous CSM candidates actually achieved (versus their primary standing reason/pledge) etc. My thoughts are the CSM do very little to actually influence or change the direction CCP will take from patch to patch (see POS dead horse thread) anyway. My feeling is CCP's development plans are made by them for what they feel they can push on us, and the CSM are asked for feedback rather than the CSM deciding the feature area or any future release plans.CSM is largely a PR exercise.
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I haven't really contributed this year. Once I have something to write about, I will offer it. Probably something once the election is over.
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Am I wrong in imagining a Catch 22 concerning this CSM, where everyone who should be on it doesn't want anything to do with it, and everyone who wants to be on it should be as far the hell away from it as possible?
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Couldn't it be both?
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Bloc level backing would be interesting to follow.
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"Coverage could range from specific candidate interviews (which I personally think are irrelevant and boring) to more high-level 'horse race' features where we analyze who is likely to win, who has bloc-level backing, and who are comedy candidates. We can also do some systemic analysis of what happened to the CSM during CSM7, a piece on the common delusions/misconceptions players hold about the CSM (how it actually works vs what people fantasize about it being), etc."Everything in that paragraph, except the interviews. Xander Phoena (crossingzebras.com) is doing a fantastic job in that area, that any print interviews that TMdc might do would be redundant and worthless.
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Xander did a great job, and his wrap-up is good listening too.
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TheMittani 2013!!!More people need to skill themselves!
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Well sure I want to hear about it, but at the same time I'm not very interested in hearing anything too inane. I get that enough with real politics without needing any of the internet spaceship variety. Who the candidates are, brief overviews of their history, performance in office, ect: Fine. Small disagreements, irrelevant personal information, punditry: No, do not want. It would be interesting to hear how much power the CSM even has at this point.
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Personally I forsee a spike in 'DevSwarm' comments from the hordes of useless pubbies
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That is something a lot of writers could learn from - stop producing pointless shit just to validate your own existance
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I want to see the election race tote board, with candidates, who is backing them, and who is likely to win... and if you want to go all out, odds to encourage betting on the whole thing. It is important to me to know how much putting a million ISK on Xenuria will yield, should the unthinkable happen.
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Jerry Rin for CSM
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The Mittani, I know you have plenty of good reasons (not being CCP's lapdog one of them, being your wife's lapdog the other), but you really should run again. After your 10k vote mandate and your drunken mistakes, it would bring me GREAT pleasure to see the gnashing of teeth of the eve-playing public if we could install you and a few other goons into the CSM. If you can ever run for CSM again without destroying your personal life, I really hope you do further down the line. Mynnna seems like a really good candidate and I'll be voting for them, but i'm going to miss how your mere presence on the forums and CSM drove people absolutely crazy to the point of threats and other insanity.
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Do you have some kind of spidey sense that alerts you when people talk about you? Seriously you're response time rivals top-of-the-line paramedics.
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Cortex taps, my friend. Cortex taps.
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The smart money is on cameron zero from red vs blue.
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Candidates often say they are interested in everything and will improve everything; they all sound the same. I'd like to see articles on what *differentiates* different candidates. This is something I really like about James 315, for example.
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YOU KEEP WHAT YOU KILL - I WAS CSM DECIDED BY 1v1 TOURNAMENT
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You have successfully identified the core problem with any democratic system.
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I care more about the drama than anything else. Just like X factor or whatever similar tv nonsense, reading about horrible candidates can be good fun.Giggles aside, no interviews in most cases. I'd rather read about election current events, comparison of a few representatives for each play style (including industry/high sec), analysis of mission statements and the like.A roundtable style discussion moderated by someone on TMC (preferably one who has direct experience with the CSM) would be the best thing.

Credit for the amazing CSM logo, showing the stages of naive eagerness to rage and final facepalming, goes to Trebor. It's on the official CSM shirts. 

It's CSM season again, with CCP opening up candidacy officially for CSM8. This is the first CSM election which has cropped up since TheMittani.com has been active, so we have a question before us: do our readers, uh, care? 

In the past, CSM election hijinks have been confined to a few niche blogs and the 'Jita Park' subforum on the official forums, which is something between a ghost town and a wasteland except during elections where it turns into a nonstop flamewar. 

We also have to navigate potential accusations of bias; I've made it personally clear that I believe that media is the most effective way to influence CCP rather than the CSM, and won't be running for CSM8. We have several contributors on the site who are, however, running for spots - Mynnna, James 315, and Kesper North, with possibly more to throw their hats in, as well as an actual current CSM member, Alekseyev Karrde, on staff. 

Coverage could range from specific candidate interviews (which I personally think are irrelevant and boring) to more high-level 'horse race' features where we analyze who is likely to win, who has bloc-level backing, and who are comedy candidates. We can also do some systemic analysis of what happened to the CSM during CSM7, a piece on the common delusions/misconceptions players hold about the CSM (how it actually works vs what people fantasize about it being), etc. 

So: Sound off. How much do you want us to cover this, in what level of depth, etc etc. 

Goonswarm Federation CEO, Space Tyrant. Likes yoga, Alaskan Malamutes, bacon, and delegation.