Hurricanes, Heavy Missiles up on the Nerf-Block

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Buff medium lasers, give the galente a good hybrid bc, leave the ships as they are (only slightly butthurt due to my hanger being more then half drakes and canes.
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Robert is your mother's brother?
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The high lock range still makes sense because tracking computers and tracking enhancers can improve missile range enough that you would need to be able to lock that far.
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Your so right, just like the mining ships, I wonder if ganking had anything to do with that. CCP i would like to have CCP nerf of 50% to all things they can nerf. Thanks
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Maybe that didn't occur to you, but in general what is popular in-game is what is least balanced due to most players' desire to minmax everything and take as little risk as possible. An EVE without risk is bad, and so is an EVE without drawbacks.
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yes, I just read that on the EN24 version of this story and got that info myself
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Such is the circle of EVE. To be completely honest it was about time we got a new flavor of the month (or year), I'm curious about what our EFT overlords will come up with, especially as a substitute for the Drake (assuming it gets replaced at all). It's a real shame about the Hurricane though it's one of my favorite ships in the game, but I'll probably still end up using it even with the nerf.
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The aspect that balances that is the fact it takes 15 seconds for the missiles to reach the target.
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Missiles are bad for pvp, dontcha know?
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don't nerf heavy missiles, BUFF HEAVY ASSAULT MISSILES
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They've mentioned before that it's very possible that the Drake will lose its resist bonus in exchange for a second damage bonus, which will rebalance that.
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I agree, quit nerfing the shit that works, buff all the other crap that's broke. This really is the easy route for them..instead of addressing the lacking performance of several ships and fixing them they go after the couple that shine and nerf them...typical water it all down approach. SUCK!
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lol well it will rake in some tears of the pilots using em when they get tackled...poof
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Yeah but this has happened over and over and over and over. All they are going to do is make yet ANOTHER ship useless. Maybe instead of taking damage away from a weapon type they should look at giving other ships some buffs. Like they did for the carebears.
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So they should buff the other weapons rather than nerfing another.
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Compare heavy launcher DPS with medium rails, medium arties, and medium beam lasers when each is fit with long range ammunition to actually hit at 60km.Missile boats with a long-range high-dps anomaly in the medium-size category. If you want to make that an argument to buff other long-range mediums or nerf heavy missiles, I leave up to your perspective.
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No? They are trying to bring cruisers up to line with battlecruisers and close the gap. How would buffing the weapons that see more battlecruiser use help with that?
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Well I think I need to be getting a Vindicator or Machariel for Ratting then, what a shame, but 20% less dmg on my Tengu would mean....useless in comparism for PvE?
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Nerfs just don't make sense to me. Buffs make more sense.Let's go with the premise "Eve is Real," and it takes place in space. Progress is what folks in space would want, not steps backward. If your ship is underpowered, under tanked, etc, you would move to a better ship / weapon / armor / or shield combo, right? You wouldn't ask folks around you to make their ships worse.Let's really go with Eve being real. When a pilot docks up and meets up with the local repair / engineering shop they wouldn't say, "Make my ship worse....." That would be like saying I want a 12mpg car instead of the 36mpg car I currently run. What's real about that?
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Time = Money bud. Don't you ever forget that. It's easier to nerf just one.
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The hurricane is actually not hit that hard.Sure you won't able to fit a full rack of 425mm guns and 2x t2 medium neuts along with a MWD and 2 large shield extenders anymore, but if you "downgrade" to 220mm guns you can continue to fit everything else with a minimal loss in DPS and range / falloff. You also gain better tracking.
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Now the drake, on the otherhand, got smacked around.
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Thanks for visiting us, enjoy your posting vacation.
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Im one of these so called "Elite" and this is bullshit.If they want HAM to see more use like the olden days then buff them a bit.But before the Drake Caldari blew in PVP and a few of us saw there potential and used it then the masses started to follow.They are making missiles once more unviable in PVP, They already arent DPS monsters at all and while there range is Decent its decent at 2km as well as 60, and at 65km there is huge DMG lag, this means its already at a disadvantage with rep`s beating the next salvo.Insta DMG cannot be measured in how effective it is.....Its a sad day IMO.Now they made every missile boat in Eve from Cruise to Torp Ravens to HML Drakes to Caracals in FW etc all nuetered.....TerribadGood for my alliance bad for Eve, now they wont even be the choice of PVE`ers, lol might as well just rip missiles out of game.HML was last practical Missile in combat, So they better buff the shit out of Hams to make them even with ACS/Blaster DMG and make Torp Boats have more than 115k EHP.GSF and powerblocks I hate please please put pressure on CCP to stop the madness.
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HAMS dont do enough DMG, its not that HML`s do to much. A Ham Drake does 500ish while a HML does 400ish, and yes they dont track well.HML`s are great and work as intended, its HAMS/TORPS/Cruises that need buffs. Lol whens the last time you saw a cruise anything in combat that wasnt LOLS
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Yikes. Missiles were already dramatically sub-par compared to other weapon systems. This makes them worthless -- you might as well fit FoF missiles and fight at knife-fight range with ECM Burst modules. Bad, bad change.This is coming right on the heels of the State of the Goonian, in which The Mittani rebuked those asking if there was consideration for changing the CFC catch-all support fleet doctrine from Drakefleet to something else.It's been awhile since a Drakefleet has done anything particularly amazing in nullsec warfare. It has been a long time since Drakefleet has consistently done more than trade losses with an enemy and technically accomplish victory through the capture or destruction of a strategic structure. To outsiders, it likely seems lazy to settle for mediocrity in a fleet composition.There should not be an excuse after this point for reaching for a new support line fighter. Neut, Shoot, and Firewall Feroxes? Ishtars? I can't wait to find out in the coming months :popcorn:
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I thought the range of heavy missiles were balanced by the fact it took a few seconds before the target got hit, and damage was balanced by the immunity to tracking disruption.After this proposed change, it looks like the only reason left to pick Heavy Missiles for long range PvP is the ability to switch to any of the four damage type. Or have I once again missed something obvious?
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Could not be said better well done sir.
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I look forward to the second coming of "TURN ON YOUR FUCKING PROP MOD PRESS APPROACH" fleets.
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From what I remember on the initial discussion was that both of the current bonuses were to be removed and replaced with a launch rate and velocity or flight time (I don't remember which) bonus. While the latter would more or less counteract the proposed nerfs with respect to effective range, the former still results in decreased dps for kinetic missiles while non-kinetic missiles wouldn't be affected by as much.
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This is not a very complete argument. If you want to compare just the at range dps you don't have the full picture. A defining characteristic of missiles is that they do more or less constant damage regardless of range (assuming within range). However, guns have the option to change to different damage tiers if engagement range changes. As such if you balance missiles purely based on long range performance, they become, somewhat even on long range engagements, subpar at mid-range engagements, and even more so in close range engagements (this is with respect to ammunition choice, ignoring long/short range weapons like blasters vs rails). Comparing to only one extreme isn't a good way to get a big picture view.
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With the changes, if you use something else other than scourges, HM on a drake/tengu will deal a crappy dps it's not even worth it.
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Current state of hi range BCs - http://go-dl.eve-files.com/med... - HML was begging for a nerf... Changes will bring it in balance to other ships.
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Nah Buffing 90% of ships to reach a performance of 2 is not smart. Because u d have to buff 90% of other ships and platforms to get em balanced with drakes and canes. even some BS are a laugh atm compared to those 2 BC. It is just not so logical. Way easier and fair is to bring the drake to do a dmg somewhere btw the dmg of other long/short range ammo factions.And well cane is just op atm :D, as solo and also as a small scale or blob scale fights. Exatly beacuse u can jsut fit everything on it.
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Wow, they're just fixing the Caracal and already they kick it in the nuts.
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I must agree here in some extent ...... they want to hurt the Drake but they are hurting the entire line of ships. basicly all races got access to Short range and Long range weapons. i can't see a need to nerf the range of the HML and damage wise the HML have been beating the HAM but that's because HAMS is so limited especially with its huge explosion radius.My sugestion ok drop the dps on the longrange missils ok ... but decrease the explosion radius on the HAM give the missil spammers a valid DPS for with the suggested changes Caldari will suck at PVP again.On the hurricane im worried that the PG change is to mutch. I don't like the idea of having a ship that to fit it you have to put on a PG implant or use a ACR just to get it to fit how will this make the new players fit the ship even for the PG changes hit hardest on the new player with T1 guns then the ones with T2 guns ( with T1 guns the PG drop -4.4%) and with T2 guns the drop is -2.6%) honestly i like the fitting meta game but if they inteneded the Cane to use Arty they should give it sufficent PGi have no quarrel that if you go down the AC route you get more tank and stronger ship since yuo have to be up close and personal but requireing a ARC just to fitt it seems wrong.anyway the reason why Drake/Canes are use in PVP is because the other ships mostly suck.lets go though themCyclone -- Shipbonus to Active tanking with shield (nothing for pvp) a weird slot layout that gives you 0 mobility since its lacking one midslot for propHurricane --- Great ship good slot layout for both shield and armor tanking thats why its uses so mutchDrake --- Great ship good for PVE passive drake with good shield regen or for PVP with extenders given the option to sacrifice alot of DPS to get even more TankFerrox -- Shield Resist + Optimal range decent ship but since Rails are realy weak they are used as closerange blasterboats .... good? never flown one but i guess not.Brutix-- Hybrids dammage + armor rep bonus (nothing for pvp)Myrmidon Drone hp + armor rep bonus (nothing for pvp)Prophecy - Armor resist + Cheaper cap for gunsHarbringer - Gun dammage + cheaper cap for guns so from the ones above the following ships "could be made" valid direct in fleets from there boneusesDrake (Shield resist) + missile bonus Hurricane (faster guns) + more gun damageHarbring more gun dammage + cheaper cap for guns Prophecy Armor resist + cheaper cap for guns Ferox (Shield resist) + Gun dammagethe invalid are Cyclone (Active shield tank bonus) in my book a PVE flag Brutix (Active Armor tank bonus) in my book a PVE flag Myrmidon (Active Armor tank bonus) in my book a PVE flagbest from my stand point would be when they are fiddling with the BC doing the following give every race 1 BC that got a active bonus to Shield/Armor reparing for PVE and one other that they balance vs PVP and then everyone get happy. that way they can compare 4 ships from there two dirent guns system longrange or shortrange and see if there combined dps is in line with the other 3 ships.
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Missiles create lag, so that is pretty easy gameplay performance numbers optimising right there..
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apparently not according to CCP
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Tracking disruptors with tracking speed scripts VS drakes will be useful in Tengu fleets or AHAC fleets.
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The year of the armor tank is incoming. Just wait.
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The over and over and over part I certainly agree with, although the "dont nerf this buff everything else" is something I can't agree with - it just ends up sounding of power creep and that scares/annoys the shit out of me.Regardless, what I find myself questioning the most with regards to the HML and cane changes is that, in the case of HMLs, they directly affect half a dozen of hulls which have yet to even be looked at for rebalance purposes and come with a supposed buffed Caracal and in the case of the Cane, come before the BCs as a whole are even looked at. This just seems out of place and not really justified at this point of the rebalancing effort.

The Fozzie giveth and the Fozzie taketh away.  Having delivered a refreshed lineup of cruiser abilities earlier today, CCP Fozzie has gladdened the hearts of high-skill players around Eve by announcing sweeping changes to the Hurricane and, more importantly, Heavy Missiles, that will hit the rank-and-file fleet doctrines of many large alliances.

The Hurricane is hit hard through the route of fitting nerfs, making it hard to fit the larger guns and impractical to use neuts alongside them.

The Drake is hit indirectly through the medium of missile nerfs: Heavy Missile damage is cut, flight-time (and therefore range) is whittled away, and the engagament envelope for a drake fleet will therefore drop by about a quarter of its previous distance.  Heavy Missile damage is also hit.

Although Tracking Enhancers and Tracking Computers will enhance this range again, Tracking Disruptor modules will now affect missile boats (one suspects that this is, however, unlikely to see much use in large fleet fights given the effectiveness of other ewar options).

The sense of joy amongst the forces of elite PvP will be lessened by the realisation that Tengu fleets are also affected by the Heavy Missile changes.  Mission-runners, ratters and plexers also look to be hurt by the 20% drop in damage.

For full details, read CCP Fozzie's thread and give your feedback.

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