The Great Fuel Crunch

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Until Production and Refining can be reasonably done in the same station, Outposts don't have the buff they need, not by a longshot.
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Where do you get the idea that Amarr ice is unaffected by the anomoly change?
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I never heard anyone at Fanfest say that "Amarr ice is unaffected by the anomaly changes and thus AFK ice mining will still be possible in those regions" - I believe that is inaccurate. Please check your sources and verify this.
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Agreed. Looking at the dev blog it says that they are removing ice belts from amarr systems.
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^^ This - you're information on Amarr ice is completely wrong, they will have anomalies like the rest of space, but not all current ice systems will still have ice, only the ones listed in the relevant devblog (which you should probably reread now).
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have you heard about freighters?
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AFK Ice mining dead. AFK asteroid mining heavily nerfed as it becomes viable to mine high sec minerals in null. This is how CCP kills the New Order of High Sec.
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Yeah the OP didn't understood at all, there are too much Amarr ice belts, so they are emoving some of them, while changing the other to the same system as the others races.
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"With the exception of some systems in the territories of the Amarr Empire, Khanid Kingdom, and Ammatar Mandate, all systems that currently contain ice belts will have at least one instance of these new Ice Anomalies." It was in the main Devblog, not the companion one with actual numbers.http://community.eveonline.com...
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...and now I understand what it is they're saying. My bad.
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I might just be paranoid, but that dev blog came out two days ago, but Isotopes had a short spike 10 days ago. Am I missing something?
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I'd like to apologize for my error - I misread the Devblogs.Amarr ice is being changed like all others, but some systems in Amarr/Khanid/Ammatar space which currently have ice belts will not have ice anomalies. They clarified which systems in the companion blog. There will be no more ice belts after the summer expansion. Everybody panic!
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Burn Jita kicked the prices up.
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Hahaha. We're not going anywhere. If anything, expect us to gank even more now that exhumers have even weaker tanks.
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AFK miners deserve to be ganked. macro miners should be castrated and there balls stappled to my orcai have 5 account dedicated to mining. and no a dont afk mine....in regards to caldari towers....where in hisec can you set up a reactions tower??????? you cant.. CCP changed the hulk/mack/miners ore holds to combat macro users.. thats ok with me. but over the past 3 years ive played the game CCP has nerfed or removed stuff from the game wich i have trained... is CCP willing to refund my skill points over 5 accounts... a big fat no! if they think that miners will go to low or null just to sit and mine then i suspect eve will crumble. and no one will play the game... if CCP wants to buy my accounts off me they are welcome to pay me $5000 US per account for wasting my time. CCP will have to again redesign the mining vessels to add more slots to tank your miner... i currenty fill a venture in 10 mins with full boost... 27 mins to fill a mack 35k m3 of ice with little or no tank. i guess CCP has some noob workers suggesting this shit. i wish iceland would freeze over so we can mine there! FU CCP
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Your brain is controlled by the internet.
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Your numbers on JF cost lack imagination. Remember they plan to reduce ice supply such that only 80% of current demand can be met. The price is going to continue to rise until 20% of current POS operations and JF logistics is no longer cost effective.
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He typoed it, I assume he want caldari poses not caldari space. I was confused for a sec though
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*Meant*, see that easy :-)
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80% of current demand can be met * from h/s supply *. There is still low and null to make up the difference. This cost will increase, initially a lot but it'll stabilise again.
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Have you heard of a fleet? Or maybe an alliance that forms?
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No.... If you were part of Burn Jita 1.0 you know that ice was targeted to cover SRP.
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So what about reactions running. The POS fuel is going through the roof, tech prices are crashing and taking the T2 fulerides and nano-transitors down as well. Also the cost of running the JF now has effectivly doubled,
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Are you seriously suggesting that an alliance form a defense fleet every time a freighter of minerals needs to be moved from a mining system to a producing system? That's not even somewhat feasible.
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Have you even set foot in space below 0.5?
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Have you heard about the secret of the terrible danger from outer space?Beware of the shover robot. He is malfunctional.
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They just have to switch from ores to ice!
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Can I have your stuff?
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I'd also like to clarify: "Caldari space is vastly preferred for moon mining" is incorrect. "Caldari towers are vastly preferred for moon mining" was what I meant. I'm not sure if this got changed in the edits or what.
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Caldari blocks have twice demand > because caldari space is vastly preferred for moon mining.Do you know *anything* about poses?
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Yeah, I think that I either had a derp moment or an editor made that. I meant Caldari Towers.
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LOLOLOL RISK ADVERSE I MIGHT DIE MOVING MY MINS IN NULL.TEARS FUEL THE GANK BOAT.
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Cya Ice mining bots, see you in a couple of week while you get your scripts modified.
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Uh, isn't that how it was done before JF's?
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Do you have to turn everything into a "CCP nerfs ganking" conspiracy?
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They are here to protect you....
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...I thought the New Order was entirely against AFK mining, and wanted a nerf to it.
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I'm really not sure this will end botting. A belt stay a belt. They'll just have to move a little more without even to jump in another system ...
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I am happy to inform you that you will have no problem defending your miners against permacloaked neuts. As they are permanently cloaked, they will be unable to lock you and therefore unable to harm you. Please watch out for uncloaked enemies instead, as they may cause trouble.
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This is great as it is one more step in crunching botters. No more AFK ice mining 23/7. They will likely switch to static ore belts in highsec though, which coupled with the Nullsec ore changes will drop low end prices. It's good to be a Nullsec industrialist this summer. :)
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I'm actually for keeping it as current. Sure, fully-upgraded Minmatar outposts will be fairly good (especially when building modules, which a production-speced Minmatar outpost gives a time bonus to), not getting perfect refine in an Amarr outpost is down to risk vs. reward. The tradeoff is between getting a perfect refine (less any tax set) but having to move your minerals, which takes time and risks your freighter being blown up, and refining in an Amarr outpost which increases your costs.In most places in nullsec, each Minmatar outpost is adjacent to multiple Amarr outposts. Even if you want to move them fairly far, utilising jump bridges with a scout is safe enough, and titan bridging even safer.
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That would explain it, thanks.
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You won't have much time if they're cloaked right beside said bait.
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Spends time engaging with an entertainment product. Wants money back for said product "wasting my time".
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You're right as it will not end bottling. The roadblock for botters is the limited amount of ice in belts, its shifting position and the 4 hour respawn. AFK ice mining the same ice belt for 23 hours is pretty much over. Likely AFK botters will switch back to ore belts for all day mining.
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botting :p
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Its not just the cost of the fuel and topes. The massive buff to the nullsec ores, the decreased efficiency of the Ice mining bots along with the fact that most ice fields are not going to be mined at 100% efficiency, and the buffs to outposts. All these changes are working together to make the impact a lot bigger than you imagine.Also, the reason nullsec imported things, wasn't just because we wanted to, it was because we simply could not build these things ourselves.
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Obvious you should be the next CSM chairman.
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no one heard of the outpost buff?
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Right now the fact that nullsec isn't economically independent creates a market for t2 materials in jita, making them available to highsec manufacturers. But why bother jumping moon goo into jita when you have a complete manufacturing pipeline in null? The end result seems to be ridiculous prices for t2 hulls and mods in empire.
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im thinking about the same thing. high sec small T2 business will take a pretty big hits if there is no moon goos cheap enough to make any profit
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I did sort of misread the changes - Minny outpost with a 50% refinery and 50 slots is a huge buff, but with the limit of 1 outpost per system, it's still not great overall. The idea that a refining outpost and a manufacturing outpost are completely separate and impossible to have in the same system is glue-huffing stupid.
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Lets say a large group of highsec miners that can cover 2 or 3 of those 4 hour respawn cycles for ice anoms decide to stockpile on, let's say, gallente ice products and thus raise the fuel prices even more, do the same thing to fuel as OTEC did to tech. Can that be possible? What percentage of the overall demand must that group harvest to make any significant impact on the market?
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I have heard there will be a 4 hour cycle time on ice anoms. This is troubling.
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I agree. Allow use to put up more then one outpost / system and see how great home systems you can build in Eve and even better its a all eggs in one basket .. something worth fighting over and only one system to AFK camp ....so I see no problems with multiple outposts in same systems more then we might get a Jita2 in VFK ;-)
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How about you try and mine with Skiffs instead if your going to mine ice ...there is very little bonus from mining with bigger ships when it comes to ice.15k ore hold instead of 35 sure it makes a difference.a very valid tank and a 66% faster cycle time.sure you lose some speed vs a Mack with full yeld boost but not in such an degree that it will affect your mining operation.and ganking a skiff is not cost efficent even after patch. now mining minerals is another ballgame but for ice I see no point in using a Mack.
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Don't you realize that people are making fun of you when they tell you to write an article about it right? Nobody actually wants you to write one.
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or at least get a refining upgrade :) for multiple outposts per system, hopefully there will be more specialized outposts and PIRATE outposts in the future.
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How quickly people forget the massive price drop of isotopes when the mining barge changes came in, I used to make 4 times the Isk per hour pre ore hold addition, if isotopes triple in price they still won't be as expensive as they were.Nobody really knows what it's going to be like until it happens, I'll either start making decent Isk again or ill start making less, I sell my toons and plex my main from that, no crying just a fact, I think it's great and well overdue, tipping bots will change to ore for a while so manufacturing should become cheaper as mineral prices fall.Despite the ore hold killing my income I think the barge changes were great, CCP are never going to keep everyone happy but I think they are keeping the majority happy and that is the main thing right?
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Only troubling for ppl who want to afk or.. dare i say.. BOT...that shit ??Is that yoooouUU ?

In terms of effects on the market, this year's Fanfest has been the most violent in recent history. The R64 shakeup has led to all R64s being bought out and relisted in Jita. Meanwhile, Technetium is being dumped on all existing buy orders. Previously minor players, like Thulium, are also being hit by a massive wave of speculation.

But the biggest impact thus far has been CCP's announcement regarding ice.  With the exception of ice fields in Amarr/Khanid/Ammatar space, all ice fields are being removed and replaced with scannable anomalies. The total volume of all highsec ice is being limited to supply, at most, 80% of New Eden's current demand. Ice harvesters are also getting a 50% buff, but it looks as though AFK ice mining will be effectively removed from EVE.

The Bad News

The results over the last 24 hours have been dramatic. Before the Devblog was even released, ice was reportedly being removed entirely from highsec, which caused a minor panic and spiked isotope and fuel block prices by about 30% immediately. Since the Devblog, which is actually better news for highsec miners but nonetheless bad news, fuel prices have been kicked up anywhere from 30 to 60% across the board, with all isotopes looking to double in price within a the next few days unless stockpiles are emptied in Jita. If it uses ice products, expect the cost of operation to go up.

This will be compounded by 277 additional R64 moons being introduced across low and null-sec.  You might notice that Caldari Fuel Blocks have more than double the demand of the next most demanded racial block - this is because Caldari space is vastly preferred for moon mining. Assuming every moon receives a Caldari POS, and at least a Medium to run a reaction, the demand for Caldari fuel blocks will be increased by as much as 8 million blocks per month. At the same time, the available supply will be cut by 20%. Don't forget that isotopes aren't just used for fuel blocks - they also support your JFs.

The Good News

Many are hand-wringing anxiously over these changes. Will it crash EVE's economy? Will it cause harm to low and null-sec logistics? Will it make running POSes for anything but R32s and R64s a waste of ISK?

The answer is simple: CCP wants 0.0 space to be capable of, if not entirely encouraged to be, independent of highsec. In terms of cost/benefit analysis, everything checks out. Low-end minerals will finally be available in bulk for nullsec miners. R64s will be scattered throughout the regions, not concentrated in specific regions, and T2 production bottlenecks will be aggressively eliminated. Jump freighter and Carrier logistics will be prohibitively expensive, and only profitable for moving 'bling' items (think T3 and Faction goods). Outposts are getting the manufacturing buffs they've needed. It spells out one loud message: it will be so much cheaper to do it all from home that it won't be worth the time saved to jump it up from Jita. 

Highsec ice miners have nothing to whine about. Their harvesters are getting a 50% duration buff, and with fuel prices going through the roof, they can expect their per hour income to at least double, if not triple or quadruple by the summer expansion. Finding ice won't be as easy as sitting in one system for hours on end, but the efforts will be rewarded. Since highsec ice will be significantly harder to find, we can expect more ice miners in low and nullsec as well, which works great for the PVP folk. This could very well be the change that makes everybody happy.

Except the people paying the POS bills, of course.

The blackest member of Kugutsumen.com.