The Day the Servers Didn't Die

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Missed the HED-GP fight ? watch it now in 20 minutes: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v...
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Watched this live.It was pretty boring...
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350 Dreads confirmed on EVE-KILL up to now.. estimates to reach 400 ... War is Over, N3 beated EVE all together, enough said
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<generic comment="" that="" it="" was="" the="" cfcs="" own="" fault="" by="" bringing="" subcaps="" to="" remove="" the="" mobile="" cyno="" jammer="">oh wait we're not on reddit
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Oh wait, 14GB. That's sooo much memory (in 2014).
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yea cfc/rus just lost the war. No way they can kill the wrecking ball for months now. Its actually GG now.
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14 GB of x,y,z coordinates, v1,v2 vectors and module on/off database entries are quite some data.
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TIL that disqus allows embedding code
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Reasonably balanced article. Well done.
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It was painful enough the first time. I'd rather watch the notebook without any promise of the missus hopping on.
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Well... We tried atleast :) Nothing more to do then congratulat n3/pl. They really know their stuff gotta give them that. We werent prepared for this war, but we might have learned a thing or two hopefully. Excited to see where we go next. Oh and elise is a fucking star.
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Welp.
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If you speed up a 10-hour recording of the "fight" by 60, you get it all in a 10 minute video where everything seems to be moving in normal time.
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Unless you're working at CCP I doubt you actually know what's in these 14GB. But anyway, 14GB is nothing to brag about, some 3D simulation systems use wayyy more memory than that.
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so uhhhh just a question. Since local seems to be spammed to hell during these things, how much an effect would turning off local in cases of high amounts of people have regarding server stability? For example making it unable to type in local as soon as 1000 people are in local.
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Even at 600% speed the fight was still too long and without much action. Kudos for the video but I have no regrets for missing the fight.
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Local is handled on a different server. Closing the chat can help your client if you're having some FPS issues but makes no difference on the server with regards to TIDI.
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check the map... what do u think the next logical thing to do... "WESTERN ... cough cough"
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Using multiple y's on the end of your adverb does not provide any further technical evidence to your argument.
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14gb?!?!?1 LOL my PC has 14gp of memory. Step it up CCP lolz
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I was almost there.
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HED proves that whilst the suggestion to beat large capital groups is with a larger capital group makes sense on paper, it's impossible on the server because you simply cannot get them on the field in a manner you can use them effectively.
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In this instance, yes. Are you saying that this is the only scenario capable of overwhelming a wrecking ball fleet?
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Just let's face it: EVE derailed into "who is first in system has the winning advantage".If CFC would have been there first, those dreads would have killed half of the supercaps and titans before those could have loaded grid.So we may one coalition camping a system for up to 24hours to be the first in system and enemy just stands down would be the best way to counter that.Hello CCP please update your shit and multicore/gpu support pls???
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It was the CFC who wanted to bash heads on the IHUB. As stated in many previous posts on various forums, they could have made it a dps race and caused a stalemate until another day. As to why the FC's chose to "intentionally" cause the death of over 700 bill isk in ships, I am not sure.
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so from a neutral perspective here this comment was quite odd to me. "with neither side gaining a decisive victory in terms of ships destroyed or systems taken." does this mean the 30 or so black leagion supers and 11 solar supers, adding up to just as much if not more then the isk loss of this fight alone, mean nothing in this war? I'm just curious because from a neutral perspective this just reads like a load of propaganda and not news. and if you're only writing propaganda then what kind of site is this? evenews24 rmk 2? just curious, don't start posting the same shitty articles they do.
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I've been playing EvE for about 3 or 4 years. Was involved a bit in sov warfare back with ROL. My knowledge of fleets fights and such is limited at best. But even I knew you don't jump your whole fleet onto the enemy fleet with such high numbers. One of 2 things could happen, the node dieing, your fleet jumping in few at a time for the slaughter... Unless RUS/CFC plan was to crash the node and went bad... there's absolutely no way the FCs didn't this would happen... Even a noob like me knows that. Me and everyone that follows eve news sites knows that. How is it possible the FCs didn't? It sounds quite fishy for a bystander like me to be honest...
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same thing was in 6vdt. cfc was there first and was ready. know when this turned agains you, you cry. dont forget that N3/PL where sitting in bubbles for 4 hours risking theyr fleet. and cfc did mistake by jumping right in the middle of them. and shit that happens on such numbers where knows for long. i remember people laughting in delve wars they where undocking and waking up in clones.you did mistakes. now accept it or disband and gtfo thats it. beeing on losing side is never easy and doesnt add morale. but ffs just stop crying and show some balls
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If it is human error, DBRB will/should have some new FC's to help him fly bombers.
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At least link a semi-decent killboard link instead of the ones inthere now to show the damage done.Something like http://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_re... already shows tons more kills than the current ones.
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250+ Dreads confirmed dead on ncdot killboard. It's probably some more, but it's gonne be somewhere inbetween 250 and 350 dreads that died.
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Dont bash CCP, their servers are state of the art. When CFC / SOLAR / DD / -A- were holding the field and camping the gate in various other situations, we knew farewell that we are just not going to engage because jumping into them would generate massive losses.Plus it was CFC that decided to drop the dreads on our wrecking ball which was covering the ihub. they could have dropped the dreads on the SBU and dps race us (they only needed to kill 1 SBU to temporarily safe the system).
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you should definately minimize your local chat during such fights, but as stated by Merakai, local chat is handled by a different node.However, you should also disable CHAT LOGS during such a huge fight, because that is what spams your hard disk and therefore it creates additional lag on your computer.
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Good Game 2 Eazy no RE
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I left null sec because these type of fights are more fun to write / read about, than actually being there. I wonder how long pilots had to stay logged in for...
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Funny that you expected evidences when it's all over the place. If you want to know more about 3D simulation and the amount of memory being used these days, read about it on internet. Don't just expect people to google it for you. (Unless you're actually criticizing the form because you're only here for trolling.)
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1) Stop upvoting yourself2) I didn't expect any evidence from a ridiculous post.3) Do you believe CCP regularly broadcasts publicly their sub par server conditions?
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As for the CFC, we formed up at 15:30, and my fleet (second last home) stood down in station at around 02:00. That's over 10 hours. PL/N3 were on the field before us, by some accounts as long as 5 hours before the fight started (we could use someone from PL/N3 to confirm this).However saying "had to stay logged in" is somewhat misleading. Nobody was forced nor asked to stay online for the entire duration. People were logging in and out throughout the battle. Also many people (especially supers/caps) extracted hours before the fighting died down. Or simply died.And then you realize that assuming constant 10% TiDi (ignoring the half an hour of smooth gameplay to get from G-0 to HED and back, an ignoring soul-crushing lag which made it way, way worse than 10%), all this boils down to less than an hour of actual real-time fighting...
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did i miss something or is not winning the new loosing?
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While certainly not insignificant losses, they were not a "decisive victory" by any means - as evidenced by this very fight and the amount of forces both sides could still bring to the field.A "decisive victory", by definition, is something that decides the war. And the war is far from decided yet.
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Oh yes, the ever-stretching meaning of winning and losing in Eve since 2006.
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If PL starts flipping Catch from -A-/-DD- to B0T, as HED-GP is surely going to be claimed by PL, then the CFC cannot help it be retaken without violating B0TLORD.How long until the CFC/BL/RUS coalition of convenience falls apart?
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"Don't bash CCP, their servers are state of art."Good thing their servers can compete with NSA (impressive!) when THE GAME ENGINE is actually to blame. Thanks for the joke.
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I thought this war began with N3/PL defending their space. At the moment, RUS is having to fight defensive timers in their space.Morale is everything.
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At the end of the day its simple EVE cant handle the numbers both sides want to bring in and brawl it out.If CCP could fix this the out come of HED would have been different its no good posting in here how N3/PL won the fight cos their was no fight just endless lag.CCP has a broken game that needs fixing if they dont it will be the death of null sec nobody wants to sit in endless lag for over 4 hours while their ship does nothing,their is no fun in that.
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in hole picture in coalitions those loses are irelevant. yesterday we saw how much shit can be brought on grid and remember the fact that there was tons of crap ready to cyno in still. the biggest effect on Sollar and other SC was on morale. and the dread loss did also big inpact on that. you can say whatever you want but just tell me how many nerds will join battle next time after just experience? 4-6 hours sitting waching warp effect and dying for nothing? as former TEST as i joined in the end of war i saw this crap. after losing and losing shit, after all those assets beeing stolen more and more people starded to ignore fleet pings. and CFC/RUS are getting raped in this perspective despite the fact that they have shit loads of isk.
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Thanks, perfect troll post is perfect. Love it. :)
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I won't claim any expertise in Cap tactics, but in this scenario that was the tactic the CFC wanted to apply. There may be other methods to counter it, but if any of them require deploying an equilvant number of Caps I'm not sure they servers could handle them either.Really there are two choices for CCP:1. improve physical performance2. change gameplay to accommodate the limits of their physical performanceShrugging isn't really a response I want to see from them, I hope the CSM actually take this up as the real issue it is.
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I don't think "state of the art" means what you think it does. Even if you were right, having your code restricted to one core only (say hi to Python) still leaves 75% of your available processor cycles sitting there doing nothing. It's like saying "my school is the best school in town" while you drool on your seatmate's helmet before getting off the short bus. CCP hasn't deserved any accolades or kudos for technology in at least 5 years.
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We (PL) formed just before downtime, knowing the importance of controlling the grid in advance. I joined up around 10am local time, and extracted myself due to RL commitments around 8pm. PL/N3 as a whole extracted around an hour after I left. The bulk of our pilots were active and engaged in this fight for 12 hours - some as long as 16-18 hours.RUS/CFC dreads jumped in between 12 and 1pm my time, and were done dying around 830pm. Their subcaps came in around 11am my time, so all in all, they were committed for 8-10 hours as well, including formup time etc.EVE is nuts.
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CFC didn't need subcaps to kill the cyno inhibitor. You could quite easily have dropped a dozen long range dreads at 150km and blapped it, before dropping the rest of your dreads at zero on the wrecking ball fleet once it was down. Bring just a couple of subcap fleets, heavy with dictors and hictors to keep the enemy caps pinned down. Instead, the usual tactic of smash massive numbers into a system prevailed, and hence you're now staring at 300+ dread deaths, because the server couldn't handle it. A cap only battle with only 2 or 3 subcap fleets would have probably been a low enough number for the server not to shit a lung out
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Yes thats right, just drop a dozen or so long range dread. Who wont get insta DD to death by the 50 titans on grid. Yeah that sounds like a good plan.
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You were there all right, but we shredded your face while you mongoloids thought it would be a good idea to jump 700 more people into 10% tidi. Kudos!
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Not much of a prooving ground fight if you don't even get resistance from the thing you're trying to protect against. Sure they won the fight; but the doctrine isn't "prooven" against the things CFC/RUS tried to throw at them.
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So the ole scapegoat is at fault here? Will DBRB get bucked down to rookie ship fleets after yesterday?
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I agree and hope the servers have way more than that.My only point was that 14 GB is nothing to fuss about.
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yea your plan worked much better LMAO
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Yes, 3D simulations use 3D coordinates plus any data you want to attach to them. So the overhead could vary from null to huge, depending on what you are computing. It could perfectly be 100s of GB if you need to, some industrial servers are in the TB range.
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Do you know how much data is in a GB? The server does not handle graphics, and so its all just text and binary data... this does not take up very much memory. Also the server didn't only have 14 gigs.. it was using 14 gigs of its total memory.
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Yeah, congrats to PL/N3 for finding a tactic that removes the need to really fight. They will just have a huge ass slow atfleet with super support and drop eenough drones out to make it virtually impossible to engage them due to server/software limits. Valid as a tactic I will admit. Of course, it is also them basically admitting that in a straight fight they would be fucked harder and rougher than a porn star in a S&M gangbang flick.CAP needs to either quit fucking around and put multithreading as a priority, or say fuck drones and code in that they don't get processed once the load gets past a certain point (yes i know, it fuck drone boats and is a horrible idea) or just admit the code is fucked, quit sinking money into dust and code an Eve Online 2.
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Game mechanics that will surely get you killed are not advisable. There you had your first lesson for free.On a serious note, instead of using 1000 battleships on an already strained node, the first time you were really going to drop those dreads in such numbers, you could have just suicided like 20 to kill the cyno inhibitor and then drop the rest. There.. 680 SR dreads vs 600 in the wrecking ball on grid, instead of 1000 domis on field + 600 in the wrecking ball + 700 SR dreads that would never fully load ending in a turkey shooting session.But hey what do I know v0v
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Basically I never said memory was the bottleneck, I know that already, just that 14GB usage isn't something so extraordinary.Also, "Strawman argument": winning an argument that your opponent isn't making. Google that...
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erm dear sir, could you please come back to EVE Online as people with your grasp of the game seem to be a rare breed nowadays? #nottrolling
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Believe me, they're not even that much fun to write about.
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If TiDi were the problem, this wouldn't fix it. Systems run on a process as a whole, not grids. Also 10% TiDi is not bad to fight in, its the 10% tidi combined with epic lag and 3 fps. That is what makes it unbearable. In fact 10% TiDi can be relaxing at times.
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IT HAS HAPPENED BEFORE *not rage caps but emphasis caps* . And it has happened post dominion... Please, you've spent a long time in null by now. You should have known of these things.
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I'll be nice and gradtulate n3/pl on the win. I'll be mean and dog on CCP for not being able to facilitate anything of a real standing chance for us on the CFC/Rus side.Oh well, better luck next time.
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Half a dozen Sabres that drop bubbles from time to time is not waterboarding, it's an annoyance. Most of the time large parts of or even the whole fleet(s) were unbubbled.
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For every big ass tidi mess there are hundreds of smaller fights in 0.0 that are not like this. The "I left null sec cause of big fights (that happen what, 4 times a year??) cause tidi" excuse is getting thin.
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+1 for feeding the hamsters radioactive corn. Do it now! (What could possibly go wrong?)
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That worked fine for CFC with their Megathron fleet which lead to TEST massacre.It feels bad to be on the flip side, right?
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Honestly it seems just another testament to CCP that although they pride themselves on these massive fights, there is a lot of work to be done before these fights can actually be done.I'm sure the FC's on both sides get caught up in the whole "CCP says that the servers can handle thousands of players on one node at a time" lie.The good news though is that during this was also the RvB Ganked 100 event. and although the system maxed out at about 1200ish people tidi was actually pretty stable at around 20-30%, so it shouldn't be too long until the servers can handle the payload they like to use as advertisement
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If they commited the 2 thousand plus people into alpha maels they would have been alphaing archons off the field and the lesser tanked supers.
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Hahahhahahahahaha don't be stupid arrogant.Timing, positioning, and stupid lag ended that fight in PL's favor because you guys had the good sense to get in and on the field first. The Rus Rus forces fked up jumping into 10% and lost their cap fleet for it. But it's not like you're amazing, it's that Eve couldn't support the fight.You're just another baddie flying in the wings of a halfway decent oversized capital fleet.If you weren't you wouldn't say stupid things. Please lets discuss.
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You're the first intelligent person I've seen on this comment thread. +1Well actually Grouchy had a few good points too. But you outlined the problems perfectly.
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Actually he covered that in his first point.
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They should though. Starting with an up to date code would set them on the right path for the next decade. Promote subscriptions since we could actually battle again, and create more record breaking fights, record breaking losses, and record breaking players online.Once they've re-secured the foundation of their empire. They can add more levels. But anyone who's ever built anything knows that if it's footprint is weak, the entire structure is weak.
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Someone call the whaaambulance: We got a bitch down! I say again, bitch down! Get a move on people!
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Your knowledge about NSA servers comes from where exactly? Yes obviously they have a lot of resources, but how many of them can be used to emulate the EvE servers, the database and the huge network backbone that is needed to connect all of it?If you read up on the eve online forums you can find out what kind of hardware EvE is being ran with.
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If you look at server CPUs, you'll find a lot of CPUs with a high freq. rather than max cores (obviously they are trying to maximize both) because of the reason that MOST business processes use single core processes. Multi Tasking itself isn't an option, the limitation is not python, but the fact that multi tasking (even with only 2 threads) creates several problems. Half of the nerds that are reading this are probably gonna blame this on Python and their solution is most likely to use a "more thread safe language" such as Java or something from the .NET family - well go ahead and try to do that, because your performance is just gonna suck even more.
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It screws with your hard disk, even it is just KB/s, after a 10 hour fight even 10 KB/s results into a 351 megabyte log file which is stored somewhere on your hard disk with absolutely no need to have it.It's the fact that it is a constant slow stream, which will make your hard disk write every couple of seconds, where as it would be almost idle else (other then reading models for ships into cache). With SSDs this is not really a problem, but with "normal" hard disks, especially on low to medium systems you will eventually get more lag.
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CCP didnt buy themselves a year with TiDi, they gave players the ability to NOT crash the system and make eve a bit more scale-able. Problem is people are automatically bringing this system to its limits.One way to fix it would be to introduce even more TiDi, e.g. get it down to 1% (so 1 server tick every 100 seconds), until people realize they dont want to participate in a 3k+ member fight any more.Main issue is not CCP saying "fuck multi-threading", it's a problem of algorithms that are available to handle the simulation on grid. What use would it be to put fighter bombers and drones on another Thread (assuming it is possible) when it means that the fighter bomber thread will have to lock itself every cycle to see if the ship they belong to is still alive?Everybody that has worked in computer science and did some work with algorithms will be able to confirm that.
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No.
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Of course from Elise Randolph side, all went well, they could doomsday caps who were still jumping and couldn't turn their hardeners on.
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in 6vdt cfc was already in position and did multiple cyno's in safes, effectively doing what pl just did to you. Its to there benefit that you cannot seem to learn after such an experience.
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Now, imagine, had the landing craft been all concentrated within a mile-long beach strip, had there been rocks below the surface of water slowing down the navigation, and had all of the german firepower been focused on that space, how would it have ended?The N3 forces on the grid were at 1K, CFC bridged in more than a thousand subcaps.Then tried to jump in a crapload of caps.Now, provided that DBRB and company aren't complete morons, and that they DO actually know about EVE's hardware/software limitations, why the hell did they do such a stupid thing
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Tell me, what happens to a dozen dreads on a grid with over 30 titans on it?
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I never said you indicated RAM as being a bottleneck.I was merely saying that in 14Gb of RAM you can load a ton of numbers.
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why do we play the game then! no point if the game doesnt even work!
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Drop 50 LR dreads then. Anything would have been better then what cfc actually did
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that battle report seems to be missing a few kills.Here, let me help you with that.http://killboard.nullisecunda....
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A lecture from N3/PL on how to use subcaps?
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Yeah, too bad EVE isn't about creating content for players or anything. Oh wait...
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All this talk of Wrecking balls and not a single Miley Cyrus comment
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Yeh I agree with you 100%, if CCP does make the servers more capable, EVE players simply will form up in even bigger fleets, pushing servers to the limit again.
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Well let's be fair here, N3/PL started their defensive war by SBUing someone else's home system. They attacked first, but their target was a coalition that formed solely to attack them.
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Why don't you jump your ships out instead?
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The servers can handle thousands of players on at a time. You just need to realize that every time CCP expands the server capacity, you and others increase fleet numbers. Sure CCP could rush through server upgrades, but then we would be playing Battlefield Eve 4 and be far worse off as the upgrades failed continuously because they weren't put through testing before use.
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how about all last week that you had equal numbers in subcaps and lost Every single fight hands down?
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In 6vdt there wasnt 1500x5 wardens + 500x10 bouncers + 20x130 fighter bombers.
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Which are which?Are the rage caps the Dreadnaughts, and the emphasis caps the Carriers?Or is it the other way 'round?
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Cyno wouldn't light#get more RAM#refreshyourhardware
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nerf titan lock range to 50km problem solved?
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IIRC, they have 2 Gb per blade & 16 blades per node, making 32 Gb per node.
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Then you fucked it for everybody :P
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It's funny, and naturally expected, that the "losing" team always has excuses for why they lost.Tell us then, even discounting server factors outside of the CFC's control, what does it say about the decision-making and logic of their FCs deciding to spam pilots into a server node already strained to the limit? Unless they really wanted to crash the node, I don't see what they expected to happen against all that firepower already loaded and functional on-grid.That mistake is on those FCs too, not just ::CCP::.
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We fucked up , end of story. -Goon
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justin you noob ;)
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I was jumping there, but the highway was too long.The game actually let me jump out while still sitting in the warp tunnel.
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you rang?
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He came in like a...
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The servers not loading players onto the field is a reason, not a excuse.
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Titans have a 250 km range, your plan will fail
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These are all done clientside and as such have nothing to do with lag or node stability.
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If crashing the node was truly the intent, might I suggest "shuttle-alting"...I'm sure there were people on grid who had a mining alt or something that could've gotten into a shuttle, just to make the server work even harder. Obviously, not enough characters logged on, or else the node would have crashed. So next time: SHUTTLES! Or even pods for those who have cheap clones. Obviously, there wasn't a full commit to the node-thunderdome doctrine.
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server still calculates what graphics are to be displayed on your client. your client doesn't know what the other ships are doing, the azimuth/angle turrets are moving at on the different ships/drones for example. and you're constantly being delivered animation data about every ship on the field, none of which is calculated client side.
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I jumpedI waited 3 hoursI sawI got doomsdayed.GF GF GF GF
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HED is only using 14GB of memory? FAIL FEST! BWAHAHAHAHAHA!
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200km....cubed? Because that's a whole hell of a lot of area/volume in space and probably would be more than enough to hold all of the....ahem....participants of this battle with room to spare.The size of the grid is not the issue. The sheer number of people required to have any meaningful impact on sov IS.

(Author's note: Much of this summary was assembled using Elise Randolph's excellent battle report, which can be read in full here. Warning, Kugu comments within)

Today marked the largest single clash in the Halloween War, with forces from PL/N3, the CFC, and their respective allies from across New Eden going head to head (rather appropriately) in HED-GP. 

Setting the stage

The Halloween War, as it has come to be known, had been raging for months past its namesake holiday, with neither side gaining a decisive victory in terms of ships destroyed or systems taken. Seeking to change this, PL chose HED-GP as a proving ground for the "Wrecking Ball" doctrine. The system of HED-GP is one of the few hisec-nullsec connections, but that wasn't the determining factor for being PL's battleground of choice. HED-GP has an unusually low number of moons, a mere six. According to Elise Randolph, this distinction was important for one reason: cyno jammers. Over the course of the war, the CFC forces have tended to prevail when fighting in cyno-jammed systems due to superior subcapital numbers, and PL/N3 not being able to utilize their powerful (and occasionally controversial) slowcat fleets, or any capitals for that matter. Attempting to ensure that this would be a capital fight, PL and allies set about destroying and replacing every POS in system in the days leading up to the battle. When the system was eventually reinforced, Against All Authorities (the sovereignty holders) followed the standard procedure of anchoring a cyno jammer in system. Or at least they would have, had they controlled any starbases at which to anchor one. Without a system-wide cyno jammer in place, HED-GP was going to be in for a long day. 

Wrecking Balls to the walls

With the system ready, PL/N3 forces formed up hours in advance of any opposition in what they call the Wrecking Ball doctrine. This "doctrine" is more akin to a formation, with the fleet positioned in a protective bubble around the Titans and Supercarriers in the middle. This layout helps protect the supercapitals from being bumped out of range of the friendly repairs, a leading cause of supercapital destruction. The CFC plan was simple, bust the ball with a combination of subcapitals and close-range dreadnoughts. This beautiful diagram tweeted by The Mittani himself illustrates the desired disruption of the PL/N3 plan:

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Fight!

The fighting began with a vengeance when the CFC and RUS subcaps warped to the Wrecking Ball. PL/N3 feared the bumping and killing power of the 500 close-range fit dreads, and anchored a Cyno Inhibitor on their fleet, creating a sphere of relative safety. The first 30 minutes of fighting (in 10% time dilation, of course) saw the combined CFC/RUS forces destroy the Inhibitor with relatively light losses. With the Inhibitor down, there was nothing to prevent the massive dreadnought fleet from landing directly on top of the bubbled PL/N3 supercapitals.

a million smoldering hamsters

Nothing, that is, except Soul Crushing Lag. With local already hovering around 2700 pilots, the addition of some 700 CFC/RUS capitals and supercapitals was enough to kick the server from "strained" to "strange." Dreads began to appear on the battlefield sporadically. Some remained invulnerable, some took hits and vanished back to the systems they had supposedly jumped in from. From the dreadnought perspective, many never left the jump tunnel animation. Meanwhile on the battlefield, drone assist broke, and crippling 25-minute module lag reminded veterans of the days before Time Dilation. Many dreads were killed before their pilots could load grid, doomsdays being one of the few weapons that still functioned somewhat reliably. Killmails show dreadnoughts taking massive damage from these weapons despite most of them being tanked specifically to survive up to 3 coordinated hits, giving the impression that their modules never registered as being turned on. Despite this, the node struggled on, allowing the fight to continue in this rather lopsided fashion.

"In Space, no one can hear me sobbing about tidi"

​As ships continued to die, many people took to Twitter to comment, including CCP Explorer.

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Aftermath

As is the case with most fights of this size, killboards are hard-pressed to compile and make sense of the information. With ships logging out only to be killed upon logging back in, there were still kills to be had as of this writing.

zKill

​EVE-Kill

Currently, there are no reports of supercapitals being killed. Dreadnoughts, however, were not so lucky. Estimates range from 85 to over 350 dreadnoughts killed, along with countless subcapitals. Until the data can be better compiled, an ISK estimate of the damages is impossible to make. However, assuming dreads are worth about 3 billion a piece, the number could easily top 500 billion ISK. What this means for the rest of the war remains to be seen, although it will be some weeks before that number of dreadnoughts can be created to restore CFC/RUS numbers. With the BoTLRD Accords being ratified, it could be quite a while until the next (planned) fight of this magnitude. 

Pirate, frigate enthusiast, wanderer, and general scallywag. In-game name is Twyndyllng, strike up a conversation anytime, but be warned, I tend to shoot first and then ask a ton of questions later.