CSM Primary Begins With Only 35 Candidates

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Actually there is a way to have multiple endorsements count from a single account: once your first endorsee gets 200 endorsements & announces his confirmation e-mail was sent then you change your endorsement which appears to be allowed :D
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"My confidence in the csm has been rocked so much I doubt I'll even bother to vote."LOL dude, manage your expectations. I can't imagine how you must react to something that might actually have a direct impact on your "life". Did Barack take your assault weapon? Did you lose your savings in the Bank of Cyprus? Chillax. Oh, and vote. It's your Eve duty. :)
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Which is a good reason for candidates to NOT announce he's hit 200 endorsements, since perhaps enough of his supporters would do this to drop him below the threshold.
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*facepalm* If you'd spend some more time browsing about and, you know, reading thing CSM members have written, you'd know it's a lot of work for little reward.
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I had the exact same thought...seriously, I've been subbed a total of two months, maybe I could have locked up the n00b vote!(Admit it, this is not the silliest idea ever had in these parts...)
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CCP implied that once you reach the threshold you are in but has not said anything about what happens if you drop below again ;) it'd be funny if a block of 200 organized an endorsement party where they'd psych out candidates by all endorsing them then unendorsing/endorsing the next chump... I'd laugh fursther if the Evemail is automatic & they get spammed with confirmation Evemailsby CCP :D
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There is something to be said of realism confounding the hopes of prospective CSM candidates, in addition to apathy. It has been stressed again and again since last CSM election that it takes hard work to garner votes. There have been several articles on this site, for example, stressing the importance of a constituency, that posting on forums doesn't matter, and so on. In past elections there have been a lot of "long shots" without much hope of election; it seems that such candidates have realized the futility of trying.It is indeed somewhat ironic, because the current voting system gives such candidates a greater chance of being elected; regardless, it seems many are warded off. Keep in mind that last CSM election many candidates only reached the "100 likes" bar by the aid of their opponents, hoping to dilute the highsec vote, or any vote but their own bloc.
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So 40 candidates shows a viable, thriving process (that elects Darius III) but 35 is a disaster for a democracy in decline?OKPersonally I think the average quality of the candidates is considerably higher this time around, and this is partly attributable to the trololol candidates not bothering this year because they know they won't make it past the first round.
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tell me one thing that csm members have made ccp change ? besides mittanis no micro transaction campain. if you reread the message I wrote, you would read that I accually said that its not csm members fault/that they are doing stuff. but that in the end you might aswell write a endorsement mail to ccp and get similar result out of it.
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its like when you sit down with a hot girl at a bar, and you pretend to accually be listening to her talking about her everyday problems while trying to not too obviously stare at her boobs.
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Which of these candidates supports gay marriageAnd where is obamer on this list
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You left off Awol Aurix from HBC. Already has 200 nominations and will get elected easily.
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I'm sad that comment about Mangala Solaris only refers to RvB considering all he does for Eve (re Ganked roams). That said, I hope he does succeed.
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CSM6: 57CSM7: 49 (40 after forum +like vetting system and withdrawals)Obviously players lost interest in the CSM after CSM6. Oh wait, record turn out?Number of candidates isn't an indication of public interest, voting is. The lower number of candidates starting after CSM6 probably has more to do with the exponential increase in time the position demands rather than anything to do with the public at large.
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I disaprove of the word irelevant, only because they aren't visible doesn't mean that they did a bad job in helping CCP make a better game. Mittani pressed his activity upon everybody. As an example, who made TiDi possible, CCP Veritas, not The_Mittani. And so on.
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There was a pre-election?Damn.
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I have already put more time into this than it would take to just do some overtime and have an actual holiday in Iceland. 3 days of all day meetings in a converted fish factory in Iceland in November isn't that great a treat.
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Seriously does this game even need a CSM? I think CCP knows exactly what they are doing with their own game by now. They simply need to watch forum threatnaughts for issues of importance.As I recall Mittani you had a bitter experience being on the CSM. Didn't they drag you to Iceland only to use you as a PR stint?
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It's actually an important part of the electorate/playerbase that will never be represented by the current crop of candidates. The idea isn't silly at all, and is something Eve sorely needs.Everyone running for CSM has been playing for far too long, and in the process lost a general perspective of the game.
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Dont say that. Everyone will want one.
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So with 11 people backed up by blocs, its safe to say that only 3 spots are really up to grab for the other parties.
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Man how you're going to look back at this comment when you're sitting next to Fon Revedhort in Reykjavik while it smells like fish and sulphur
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mynnna, who writes more about industry than basically anyone else on the TMC writing staff, doesn't care about industry guys
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Uh, there was this patch named Crucible, you might remember it. Nearly everything in it was a direct CSM request.
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Stakeholder, not shareholder~Not trying to be pedantic or anything, there's just a /big/ difference.
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You elided past my analysis and jumped on a soundbite; tsk.We have 35 going into a pre-election; the number on the actual ballot will be lower than that. CSM2/3was one of the least engaged CSMs in terms of player interest and there seems to be a correlation between candidates numbers and broad interest in the CSM as a whole.If 'lack of interest even running' doesn't seem like a sign of player apathy to you, then I'm afraid my political judgement disagrees with yours.
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If CCP wanted actual revenge on me, I'd have just been banned for real. Soundwave openly stated in the press that the whole thing was ridiculous and blown out of proportion. The fault of setting up an internet lynch mob lies at the feet of the gaming media themselves.And now I'm one of them. Heh.
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A solid analysis.
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I don't think CCP puts a lot of value into the CSM anymore. It's one of those cool ideas that on further thought, isn't all that valuable.When it comes to game design, you need lots of input from thousands of sources, and you need to know what people really want not what they say they want. This is better done through solid analytics, multivariate testing, and direct input from a large number (and variety) of players.The CSM is a feel good thing. It makes people feel important, like their opinions matter. That's not necessarily a bad thing, but it's value in making game design decisions is extremely limited.
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What he did happens in EVE thousands of times each day. Nobody gives a slightest fuck. Just that him actually accomplishing something hurt egos and we all now that hurt egos are most powerful motivation.
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Who made walking in stations and awesome monocles? CCP did. Clearly they are awesome and know what they dare doing. True they are doing a lot better after Mittens kicked them in the balls and showed them what the hell they are supposed to be doing but that's hardly CCP accomplishment. Go back and read their posts and dev blog of the time before the great protests. Does that sound to you like a sane company?PS: TiDi was begged for and proposed by players long before CCP started talking about it.
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On the other hand, a true newb would often be dealing with issues in something of a void of ignorance (I certainly would in many areas), and would be vulnerable to becoming a simple appendage of more experienced players, or otherwise being simply irrelevant. It's dealers choice, good and bad.
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"The success of the CSM in guiding CCP proves that the CSM isn't neccesary!"
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It's still happening. But you're too cool to give yourself a voice that counts when your time can be more profitably spent whining in the comments of a gaming news site, right?
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Politics is a dirty business of realtalk if you want to get past the platitudes. Every candidate is 'for' everything, but power comes from votes, and Mangala's votes will come from RvB.
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Don't lynch me bro :(
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Shouldn't it be worrying you that people don't even know there's a fucking pre-election going on, or have you already firmly selttled into 'slobber CCP's knob so you can get one of the 5 trips to Fart island' mode?
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At bottom, it was all about the wizard hat. If you had worn a gold-glitter motorcycle helmet, everything would have been different.
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Remember that this 35 number is (a) before the pre-election and (b) featuring SIX wormhole candidates (17%). Had they done their primary as they wanted to and stuck to one candidate, we'd only have 30 candidates BEFORE pre-election. There's also the fact that power blocs have run more individual candidates (4 for CFC, 3 for HBC as Malcanis has claimed he's not running with bloc support, 2 for N3). Eve-University also isn't running a candidate this year either.That's bad news no matter how you slice it.
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It should also be noted that STV inflates the number of bloc candidates compared to FPTP elections; Goonswarm and the CFC ran only one candidate last year, yet is running 4+ this time because there is no risk of lost overvotes. This implies that if this wasn't a STV contest we would likely see even fewer candidates.
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Two Step does have epic boobs
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And what's worse is that with the drastic change to a far more complex voting system, education from CCP about the vote is more important now than it's ever been. This is a debacle top-to-bottom and is showing perhaps a bit too much about how little CCP thinks of the player-input side of the CSM. They want their free employees and aren't particularly bothered with how they get them.
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Only 5 wormholers, and we probably would have had 2 winners of the primary, as we may be able to get 2 seats this time around
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Given that some pretty fringe candidates like https://forums.eveonline.com/d... already got their 200, I think it is far more likely that at most one or two people won't pass the pre-election
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I could have run. I'm a member of a large bloc, and I'm a moderately known FC. I probably wouldn't have won, but I would have had a shot with no harm in trying. I did not run because I understood two things. #1 CSM work is like a part time job. #2 CSM pay consists of plane tickets to iceland, half the time for business trips. That just doesn't sound very appealing.
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If you believe in 'education' and 'democracy' having something to do with dispelling ignorance, I'm afraid we can't have a serious discussion about how politics actually works. :(
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Your "fringe candidate" is in a 600+ member alliance.
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I think most of the candidates will get their 200. You thought the WH vote would have issues, and it's not going to. Each of the candidates will easily pull 200 endorsements. There are far more people in WH space than you think.
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I do wonder if Riverini can keep his mouth shut on NDA'd things for long enough to keep a seat.
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Give me my firetail
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YOU COULD SAY IT WAS A DUNCE HATDOHOHOHOHO
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God forbid Ripard Teg or Trebor (or, in worst case, both) get on the CSM... EVE will be a themepark in no time
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Whoops, I think I counted Nathan Jameson as two when I glanced at the list of WH candidates. Either way, it doesn't change my point that the already-low list of pre-election candidates is also counting the higher than normal candidate numbers for organized groups.
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Question is it seems, who havent I given one too.
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How could CCP let this neo-nazi pass the background check? I mean such a person has no place in the CSM.
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I think the CSM should work and if it doesn't include outrages and alot of publicity, fine, as long as they do their job and if you would have listened to podcast and read a few blogs you would probably know that they are a good influence on CCP and help make the future of this game bright!
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Maybe someone can convince eve-bet or similar group to start a pool?
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Me.
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More voters voting on a reduced number of potential candidates doesn't foster a diversity of views on the CSM. Non-bloc voters will have fewer people to chose from.
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He also has his podside cred. Of course so does Mike Azariah.
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"I think CCP knows exactly what they are doing with their own game by now." Incarna tells us otherwise. They need the CSM to slap them upside the head before they do something stupid. A lesson they learned at the hands of Mitanni and CSM6.
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I suspect that the real reason the number of candidates has declined is because people now have a much more realistic understanding of the amount of work involved, the difficulty of the task, and the lack of appreciation for the work. I think perhaps you are confusing quantity with quality.
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Mangala will get lots of support from places he'd never expect.
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I'm just going to pretend for your sake that "podside cred" is a joke.
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Thanks for getting to that before me.
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That was a last minute addition literally given to us today by sort dragon.
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it's the same in rl politics, politicians going down for things that happen to normal people everyday, such is the way of the system :p
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Vote 1 Psychotic Monk
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As opposed to someone with just a thread in jita park mired up to his eyeballs in forum trolls? More exposure is more exposure, like it or not.
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It appears once you've reached the 200 threshold you are in even if later endorsements change so you are below... there was never a bylaw in the white paper about this exception.sort of like in american football once you're past the goal line it counts as a touchdown even if there is a penalty during the extra point... ergo it appears one can command multiple endorsements if done right
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me too
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At least the new blood will have Trebor to whip them into shape. Every current CSM7 member and Mittens endorsed his abilities.
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If you can't beat them, join them.
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The gold helmet was a pod-racer helmet and dnsblack had to wear it because he lost a bet. The wizard hat that he wore before giving it to mittens?? fuck if I know.
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Why?I mean, ok, I don't agree with his political views, but how do they matter in this game?Does him being a neo-nazi mean he would advocate for nerfing minmatar into the ground or increasing subscribtion fee for players from Israel or what?Personal is not the same thing as important in this case. His personal views are unrelated to EVE gameplay, and as long as he can keep them by himself when doing his CSM job, it's fine. All I can see now is people trying hard to pull ad hitlerum on him on every opportunity instead of logical arguments against his program. And you know what. I didn't initially want to vote for him, but each and every hysterical scream about neo-nazis makes me closer to reconsidering my choice. Simply because I get the feeling that otherwise we might end up with CSM members being elected by people who can not into logical argumentation.
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The only chance that obnoxious fuck Riverini should have is the chance of suffering a brain aneurysm. He's literally the biggest faggot in EVE.
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I pray for your sudden death, preferably while choking on whatever you're stuffing your fat fucking face with. You are the ur-pubbie.
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Its looking like Nullsec is more-or-less going to sweep the CSM. Ultimately, I think that the HBC, CFC, and N3 members will all list each other in their 14 slots. I suspect that Mynnna, Banlish, and Sort Dragon will be the top 3 when the election is said and done (not necessarily in that order). I think that Progodlegend will come in in the top 7, but behind other CFC/HBC candidates. There are 11 candidates between these three Nullsec power blocs, and I believe that all 11 of them will get elected due to the SVT system. Mangala Solaris makes 12 seats filled up. This is, of course, taking into consideration that the two other CFC members running for CSM don't make it past the endorsement phase, otherwise it is possible that we could have the entire CSM coming from the CFC, HBC, N3 and one member from RvB.While I do not feel that Trebor is a lock for a second term as part of the CSM, but I do think that he has a leg up on all the other candidates outside of the major blocs. I would expect him to make it.If W-space wants a representative on the CSM, then they better not have more than 2 candidates run, and ideally only 1 on the final ballot. Even then, they face an uphill battle.Meanwhile the Russian front seems to be in a similar situation, where they have three candidates but no one person who seems to be respected enough by the Russian Eve community to solidify their bloc vote.As for Ripard Teg and the Panamanian Backfat, lets just say that making it past the endorsement phase will be a pyrrhic victory at best, making it past the preliminaries only to be dunked on in the real deal.The SVT voting system almost guarantees that CSM8 will be all-null all the time, and hopefully this will be to everyone's benefit.
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Wow his mummy must of burnt his toast, such anger for some1 so young
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If you can't see why a company who sells its product worldwide (esp. certain European nations with, how shall we say, "specific" laws relating to Nazism) might want to ensure that they aren't allowing overt neo-nazis to represent them in any way, then I'm not sure what to tell you. Maybe finally get that GED?That's not even touching the multitudes of other problems relating to having an open neo-nazi working with a group of players who are drawn from the entire world, or just the "fuck racism to death" thing.
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I voted and will vote for the FA-Guy "Artctura".Why? Because I can....and I love baseball.http://www.kidshalloweencostum...
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1) Who is GED and where do I meet him?2) He's apparently yet to violate ToS (otherwise he'd be banned). He also does not represent CCP in any way or shape. He is volunteering for a CSM position. Which is entirely player-elected. Players have every right to elect an overt neo-nazi, Pol Pot or a flying octopus from Alpha Centauri. It's a player decision and a player responsibility. You can not have one without the other. You may not vote for him, you may lurk without sleep in a quest to find an evidence against him strong enough to ban him on ToS or EULA violation or whatever, but you can not expect CCP to route him out because of your or their personal dislike. Because it will be CCP voting, not players. And if it's CCP who does the voting, there's no meaning in CSM whatsover.
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Great, I'm sure CCP can take comfort in this overly simplistic child's view of the situation if say, Fon gets elected and the media decides to report on it (hint: they would in a heartbeat).
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Oh, the press would report that EVE players elected a neo-nazi scumbag, therefore CCP is an official residence of Hell on Earth. In the next issue: communist conspiracy: russian weather satellites are irradiating murrican citizens and cause cancer. Yes. Glory to the free press. Maybe you should do something with journalists being exempted from known approved forms of logical thinking.Banning his candidature is agains the rules. Not banning his candidature will cause a media outcry due to ad hitlerum. In my childish simplistic worldview submitting to demands supported by torches and pitchforks instead of an argument to reason is negotiating and subduing to terrorists. And a position that we must burn him for his thoughtcrimes does not speak favourably for his opponents either. Ironically making them... ahemm... not so different (if only less able to keep their calm).
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Ahh I get your gimmick now! "borderline retarded troll"! I'm bad at this.
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It's because I can do with poorly disguised sarcasm. You have to resort to ad hominem.
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Considering what he said at the fanfest I think it was reasonably to kick mittani off the CSM. What he did would be comparable to someone insulting vile rat right now, they would get lynched by the goons(and anyone with a sense of honor and respect). So while he may have made the CSM worth something what he did at the fanfest was unexcusable. There is a difference between being the bad guy in a game and being a bad guy.So while he did do alot of good on the CSM his conduct during the fanfest should not be overlooked. besides it doesn't mean the leader of CFC, the most powerful and prominent coalition in eve, cant improve the game in other ways.
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hell yeah
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no xenuria, no fun :(
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CSM8 is going to be a funny thing to behold. Most of CSM7 won't run again (do they know something we don't?), the whole election process has been neglected by CCP after making it way more complicated without a reason good enough and then on top the pre-election has been botched... and now it's becoming evident that voter turnout will crash to a never seen before record low.If i was cynical, I would claim that CCP is laying a foundation to dismantle the CSM through the old scheme of "shrink and scuttle"... but that couldn't be right, could it?
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one can only hope that neither Riverini nor Ripart Teg make the cut, both have a horrible understanding about the game, and both, with their articles focused on getting as many readers as possible, hurt the game more than they do any good.Ripart Teg with his every-few-month-eve-is-stagnating-or-dying-posts based on skewed numbers and wrong fully build conclusion lines, or Riverini, who published guides to botting a while back and then claimed that was to fight botters.Not thanks.Then there is Steve Ronouken, someone i would vote for because of the 3rd party work hes doing, if he hadn't published his ideas of "fixing wardecs" which shows he wants to tone down the games harshness.. no thanks.guess my vote this year will, for the first time, go to a block candidate
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Changing to a relatively complicated voting system to reduce the power of block voting and disqualifying the most popular candidate for CSM7 must have played role in voter apathy. It would be amazing if it hadn't.
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Nahhh- nobody ever, ever says bad things when they are fucked in half drunk. EVER.
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Because clearly, at an event that invites gamers (and other interesting socially awkward morons) to drink themselves into oblivion, should obviously be broadcasted for all to see on a no-delay 'live' stream; hell, even the news has a delay for errors/faux pas.That whole incident had more to do with CCP bowling for Sony's bid on DUST 514, so they could make mo' money. :capitalism101:
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It would be interesting to see a white supremacist sharing a conference table with holocaust deniers.

The Facts

The CSM 8 Primary has begun: for approximately the next week, 35 candidates will be scrambling to acquire 200 endorsements from their voters to be added onto the final ballot. Voters will not know which candidates have gotten enough endorsements to push them past the 200 mark, but allegedly CCP will notify qualified candidates once they have passed. Each player account can only endorse one of the 35 candidates in the primary, in a change from the CSM7 'forum likes' system which was widely criticized. 

According to this dev blog, the Primary (or Pre-Election) was slated to begin on March 22nd, but wasn't deployed until March 26th. We presume that the primary period will remain one week long, ending approximately April 2nd.

The Predictions

First, this Pre-Election system is a step up from the 'forum likes' system of CSM7, where a candidate needed to only acquire 100 forum +likes to get on the CSM7 ballot. However, the Pre-Election has - thus far - barely been mentioned by CCP. There has been no dev blog about it as of this writing, and it was delayed by four days. Also, unlike the +likes system, voters must choose one candidate to endorse per account, rather than endorsing a range of candidates they might wish to vote for. This brings up an interesting contrast in systems: the Primary is a one-account, one-vote system, where the election itself is a STV system with 14 preference slots

My bet is that this roster of 35 candidates will be cut down substantially during the primary, as the webpage to endorse candidates isn't easy to find unless you're an interested voter, or sent to the Primary page by bloc-level whipping. There also hasn't been much promotion yet by CCP, and in a haze of ignorance organized candidates will triumph. 

The Realtalk

Wow: only 35 candidates for a CSM primary. That number itself is a searing indictment of player confidence in the CSM and a sign of deep voter apathy: before the primary even occurs, you know that 40% of the names you see will in the pre-election will end up on the CSM itself. 

CSM8 will have the lowest number of candidates of any CSM election in history, as we can logically assume that not all of the 35 in the Primary will make the cut. CSM7 had 49 candidates approved by CCP, and was whittled down to 40 after some withdrawals and the +like vetting system. CSM6 had 57 candidates running, and CSM5 had 53. CSM4, one of the lowest-turnout CSM elections in the history of the institution, managed to muster 49 candidates.  

Unfortunately, many of the older devblogs for CSMs 1-3 are missing, but after some digging we find 72 applicants for CSM 2, of which 41 were approved by CCP. The first CSM had 64 approved candidates out of 97 applications. CSM3 had 56 applications, with 40 approved

We can roughly correlate player interest in the CSM with the number of candidates vying for the position; for the sake of shorthand we'll only use the final CCP-vetted approved candidates to judge. 

So:

  • CSM1: 64
  • CSM2: 41
  • CSM3: 40
  • CSM4: 49
  • CSM5: 53
  • CSM6: 57
  • CSM7: 49 (40 after forum +like vetting system and withdrawals)
  • CSM8: Less than 35

Yikes.

The question is 'why'. You might blame CCP for this, for not promoting the CSM's accomplishments enough. You might blame CSM7 for this, if you are among the players who consider them to have underperformed. You might suggest that a reduced field is not actually a bad thing, but is rather a sign that non-bloc candidates aren't bothering to run anymore. Regardless, the sheer lack of interest for players in even running for CSM8, compared to past elections, is jaw-dropping - I was surprised enough by the 35 figure to spend an hour digging around cached articles from five years ago just to make sure I wasn't deluding myself. 

If voters are disinterested in CSM8, we can assume that it will be harder for middling-strength candidates to muster 200 endorsements than in a high-interest election, particularly those without blocs - many potential voters may not even know about the Pre-Election or understand how the new endorsement system works. I predict a number will 'endorse' candidates, thinking that they are voting in the actual election, and not return to fill out a 14-slot STV preference list. 

If the primary knocks out only seven candidates out of the 35, we find ourselves in the hilarious situation of at least half of those running getting a seat. 

The Candidates

In other words, this horse race just got a lot less interesting: flip a coin for the candidates after the pre-election, and they'll probably be on the CSM. 

Notably, James 315 is out - he withdrew at the last moment.

The non-bloc Russian vote will be split 3 ways: Greene Lee is, surprisingly, running again from what remains of -A-, vying for David Duke sympathizer Fon Revedhort (some of his greatest hits, before CCP sanitized his threads, can be found here, and check out that lovely track list - Google the band names - on his CSM7 candidacy video) and Korvin returns for another CSM run.

Bloc-wise we have Mynnna, Kaleb Rysolde, Artctura and Kesper North from the CFC, Sort Dragon, Sala Cameron, Malcanis and Banlish from the HBC, with Travis Musgrat and Progodlegend from N3.  For election purposes, RvB might as well count as a bloc, and so Mangala Solaris will likely succeed as well.  

W-space is divided, with Nathan Jameson, Ayeson, Chitsa Jayson, James Arget and Cipreh each trying to reach 200 endorsements.  

We have two 'blog candidates': Riverini and Ripard Teg. Under normal circumstances - like in my previous CSM article, before we saw a field of less-than-35 - both would have severe trouble making the cut. Now, however, both have a very good shot at being on CSM8. Likewise, Trebor is now almost guaranteed a CSM seat of some kind. 

The Summary

CSM8 has the lowest number of candidates in the history of the CSM, and that number will only go down after the pre-election. A poorly publicized pre-election using a new endorsement system, combined with voter apathy, risks a significantly lower number of candidates on the actual STV ballot. As usual in low-turnout elections, organized blocs stand to benefit the most, but with so few candidates almost everyone with a vague amount of support could get one of the 14 seats. 

Update: 


Fon Revenhort has been interviewed by Xander Phoena and elucidates his nationalist/racist views after about the 20 minute mark. It's kind of surprising that this guy passed CCP vetting two years in a row, it's not like his views were hidden (despite being moderated out on the forums in some places). Well worth a listen. 

Goonswarm Federation CEO, Space Tyrant. Likes yoga, Alaskan Malamutes, bacon, and delegation.