CCP Takes Stand Against Neo-Nazi CSM Candidate

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Actually, some users in-game just try to mask their racism and their facism by using historical basics on deep detail, like they're trying to justify necessary evil with they supposed academic knowledge which is for obvious reasons, laughable at best. They're even using Nazi salutations like "o/" and many dumb asses just follow up like a sick joke. Even if this is a boring talking and behavior, they are free to do so as long they don't persist with it against any subject and I understand that, but at least CCP is trying to do something against it. I don't know why Nazi lovers and racists are attracted by some other space games like Mass Effect and Star trek on line as well. I think the Aryan-ish or would-be-Nazi kids are dreaming to go to another world and the virtual landscape is the best place they got to do it.It has gone SO bad, that i'm no longer part of the Eve community. I can't stand this bullsh*t anymore.
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CCP picked the only sane choice they had. Letting this guy on the CSM would have be a colossal PR nightmare like nothing they have ever seen before. Yes, even worse than Incarna-gate.As far as Xenuria being disqualified. lol?
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I'd have rather him just loosing the election, but since that wasn't certain ccp went for the only reasonable choice they had. Pity they had to do this and couldn't just trust the eve playerbase.
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Dolan is rising in my estimation, good job dude.
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Yeah, i think this was going to happen. I don't think anyone was surprised. And, to be honest, any company in the same boat would do the same. For all the arguments about free speech aside, providing a platform would have CCP crucified in the press. And that would have hit the bottom line too much.Add to that, Nazi Punks Fuck Off.
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Did he get the 200 votes needed to get him into round 2 before CCP kicked him ?
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Xenuria is the least-constructive person in all of EVE. "Being Xenuria" alone should be reason for exclusion.
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Does it matter?
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This would have been my choice. However, history has shown us that giving internet denizens a vote usually results in the worst choice. CCP made the right call.
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Free speech doesn't equate to a free platform, they are mutually exclusive depending on what speech you wish to disseminate. People who cry about having their free speech limited often overlook this point.
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In several countries that CCP has players in, his speech is illegal (I could be wrong, I am not an expert on German law.). CCP is a company and they have the right to disqualify anyone they wish to for any reason. The check on that power, so to speak, is what the player base is willing to accept. In this case, the player base has no problem with this guy taking a hike.
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Irrelevant.
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So, do people think that they can throw shit around in the Internets as much as they like and not expect it to fly back at them at some point? Interesting.
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I doubt it was his decision, he was just a talking head in that one. Or all of them.
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Everyone is allowed to have extremists views, that's fine (as long as no crime is committed). But understand that others will judge you by those views. And extremist is extremism because it's not shared by the majority. So you can paint yourself in the corner, no problem see if I care, but don't come and cry about being alone in the corner.
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The NUS in the UK has a No Platform policy for extremist views. You can say what you like, but you don't have to say it in our events, or in our name.It isn't censorship, its just choosing not to be associated with hate.Good point bluntpencil, well made.
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The amount of white-knighting apologists not only lamenting this but cursing CCP for it tell me that our player base is filled to the brim with retards, and that he would get in.Go read the reddit post on his removal if you want to see the cesspit of Eve in action.
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I think you misunderstand, it has nothing to do with our playerbase being filled with retards......it's the entire species m8 :(
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The issue is, a crime IS being commited when he spreads his vile "extremist views" via his platform with CCP in at least four (if not more) European countries. CCP made the right decision and in no way infringed on his "rights" because fuck racists.
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[Racist and Neo-Nazi viewpoint]Had to do it.Freedom of speech simply means that you can't force someone to shut up.You can:Not listen to themRefuse to put out a soapbox for them to speak from (What CCP is doing)Tell them to shut up (counterprotests)Put up a PA system next to their soapbox and yell louder than they can (Patriot Guard)Quietly disagree with themBuild a wall around them (one of the anti-WBC counterprotests did basically this)Or literally anything else that does not prevent them from expressing themselvesAnd all of this has nothing to do with the content of that speech. You can do any of this to a Neo-Nazi or to someone who's espousing their belief that "Kittens are Cute" all without violating anyone's rights. They have the right to say it, but not necessarily the right to be heard./standard Free-Speech semi-rant
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Everybody's entitled to their opinion, even white supremacists. With that freedom comes the consequence that people won't want to deal with that kind of idea. I am very happy that this person will not be representing the EVE player base.Someone like that, with only a very miniscule and marginal impact on the game will taint CCP's reputation, as well as ours as players, out of proportion to his relevance. It's like a shit stain on the bride's dress at the fanciest wedding of the century. No matter how great the event was, everybody will be talking about the shit stain.Not wanted. A great decision by CCP, fully supported.
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You are right, in Germany and in Austria there is a law which is called "Wiederbetätigung". Basicly it forbids you to worship Nazi-Germany or trying to bring it back.
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Well put. Of course, "Freedom of speech" varies between countries. Other nations may have different values where it's concerned, and there is no internationally recognized freedom of expression.
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Good, no use for nazis in this game. Were all human afterall.
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I greatly support freedom of speech. I want that white supremacist to speak his piece in all freedom. If only to make sure that when the time comes and he tells me I can't speak my piece I will tell him "When it was your turn I let you speak because you are entitled to your opinion. Now it is my turn and I reserve the same freedom for myself that I reserved for you."Freedom of speech does not imply that other people have to agree. At the same time I don't want this clown to have an out of proportion impact on the game by sitting on the CSM. He'll make a mockery of us and he'll make CCP look bad and he'll do it from his position as a CSM-member "Look, people voted for me, I have to be right." We have lots of other people with far better ideas.At times like these I miss Vile Rat something crazy :-(.
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Yup. People who cry "but free speech!" fail to understand that free speech is only explicitly "guaranted" in the US constitution (it's protected by decidedly weaker language elsewhere). And therefore only applies to government censorship. Private individuals and their companies can censor anything they like as much as they like because free speech doesn't require them to give you a platform.
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You're right, and MB3 only touched the tip of the iceberg here. Bringing your views into a discussion about blaster balancing on the forums of "EVE Online, an Internet Spaceship Game" doesn't really bode well for how reserved you will be about your views in a heated discussion in Reykjavik or even on Skype.CCP is right to exclude someone like that from participating in an environment where he is interacting face to face with their employees. No company would, or should, put an individual in a position to make their employees highly uncomfortable in the workplace or, worse, create a hostile environment. There are too many risks for them as a business.
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I don't insult potential friends and potential allies. I couldn't care less about people's race and nationality unless someone is behaving like a baboon (in which case the personality type is probably the same regardless of race).Being racist towards racists is just as bad, especially if it's preemptitive. More often than not it leads to a spiral of violence and chaos. Smart nazis know this and will use it to prove their points, attract followers and avoid whatever passes for authority.Banning these people, esp before they had the chance to discredit themselves (by being themselves) only gives them credibility.
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No problem with fon being disqualified, though the stuff with xenuria sounds less solid.
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Most likely. It's no coincidence they waited until after the pre-election results were in their hands to make the decision. I suspect that had he missed out, the list would have been published without him and that'd be that.The bar was also *really* low this year, as well. 200 votes may have seemed like a good idea, but with such a small list of candidates, it's not that much at all.
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I think it's entirely coincidental. CCP were out of the office for Easter and they had no chance to discuss this until Tuesday.
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Right, and we didn't get an answer until AFTER Tuesday. I'm not trying to make any kind of big conspiracy claim or anything, just guessing that CCP were perfectly willing to try to ignore it and hope it went away on its own. Honestly I wouldn't even blame them for trying that - this is probably one of the stickiest issues they've had to deal with, especially as far as the CSM goes.
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The post was made at 12pm Reykjavik time. It's entirely reasonable that they discussed this on Tuesday and decided to post the conclusion of that discussion on Wednesday at noon.
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I agree, there's no place for that in modern society, its a outdated outlook on life and mainly the views of the ignorant and uneducated.I would further the punishment to a full ban on his and anyone else's accounts for racism on the forums, and this should also extend to the use of jew jokes.
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No, being "racist towards racists" is not bad. They're not a race, so it is not possible to be "racist towards racists"; they're also not a gender nor a religion nor a nationality. I'm sure some of them might be able to spin that, but no, CCP did not wish to go down the route of feeding this idiot rope and letting him continue into the election, where he's likely to be elected by other neo-nazi trash and autists who believe "well those are just his personal views and they have nothing to do with internet spaceships" and then cause actual problems for CCP when he does decide to hang himself with the rope.
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Nevertheless in the United States it's perfectly legal to own a copy of Mein Kampf and it can be found in the history section of most libraries. Not so in Germany.
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Is it the cesspit of Eve? Or is it just the cesspit that is Reddit? Remember that we're talking about a site that only changed their policy on allowing child porn subreddits after mainstream media shat all over them from a great height.
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It's perfectly legal to own a copy of Mein Kampf in Germany (BGHSt 29, 73 ff in case you want to read the judgment). You just can't reprint it because the Bavarian state claims to hold the copyrights. You'll find that there's a lot of debate about publishing annotated versions once the copyright runs out in 2016.
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Space nazis must die!
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It's not about trust or voting, it's about CCP's responsibility to police their forums and game (i.e. their servers) of hateful and damaging language. In this case, I believe (or hope?) that CCP would generally like to censor Fon at large, but hasn't out of fear of player reaction. Letting him be a serious candidate for the CSM would be plain damaging to CCP's reputation, however ,and rightly so.
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Racism is a choice, not a physical characteristic (like race or gender). We are allowed to judge people by their choices, especially when their choice is to openly and explicitly hate and judge others by the color of their skin and their country of origin.Pretending that some "free market" of idea-trading will somehow solve the issue ignores history -- guess what, we've known racism is stupid for a very long time and there are still a shitton of racists..
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Fuck Nazi'sGood Riddance.
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Well personally I think we are not allowed to judge every choice. Especially religion or something. But most of the "-ism"s that lead to surpressing human rights are a moral crime in itself ;)
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In an interesting coincidence, American History X was on television tonight in Australia, and while I support free speech in principal, this candidate would clearly have added zero useful content to the CSM, and as we all know, EVE is no true democracy, CCP clearly acting in the best interests of the majority, no doubt the correct call in my opinion.
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"Being Xen" = then new "awox"?
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Negative, I am a meat popsicle.
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Don't go full Xen. You never go full Xen.
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Free speech is literally irrelevant here anyway. This is CCP electing to not have someone represent them to the community at large...because at the end of the day, that's part of the CSM's role. Think of any instance of a company pulling its sponsorship of a celebrity because of something they said - this is not really any different from that.
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jeez, dat Xen guy really whores for attention
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I'd say that religion is just a political/social choice with magical bullshit to back up the bigotry and irrationality, and that we ought to judge it just as readily.
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Pretty sure Iceland isn't bound by the United States constitution.
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Xenuria is a tool, he takes himself way too seriously. He doesn't understand that nobody cares about him, his politics, his "gender confusion" or pretty much anything else that masquerades as thought inside his fucked up head.
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the problem is, if you let that white supremacist speak his piece, and he influences enough people that he can rise to power, he can take away YOUR right of free speech if it doesn't fit his view of the world. that's why all totalitarian and extremist views should be fought fiercely, and i'd even go as far as to deny them their free speech. fascism often comes under the mantle of democracy, only to reveal itself when it's too late
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correct. just look at the glorious fail that mountain dew produced when they let people send in and vote for names of their new drink via the webhttp://newsfeed.time.com/2012/...
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CCP has absolutely no legal requirement to worry about Revedhort's freedom of speech when choosing the members of their internet spaceship council.
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Well, he did say he wasn't in it, he just did marketing for them, noproblem amirite?Idiot thought he could walk through britan with a swastica during the 40s, and because he wasn't wearing a uniform he wouldn't get beat down?
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My question is that if the people of EVE elected this dumbass, what's that say about the players?
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Basic human rights include discriminating people who are different to you? America preaches about the first amendment, and how it is a sacred right, which in turn allows extremist groups to flourish on your soil - see: http://m.bbc.co.uk/news/magazi....I'd rather live in a country where you are held accountable for your actions, and not simply told to ignore people who hate you because of who your parents are/were. Ignoring a problem is NOT the way to solve it. America claims to be a beacon of freedom, yet you are one of the least free countries in the world.
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Freedom of speech only prevents the state from punishing you for your opinions when spoken out loud. Freedom of speech does not protect you from non state punishment, such as being fired from your job or disallowed from the CSM. etc.
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Most of what gets said about Islam in the UK that is 'critical' would be classified as hate speech under US laws.
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It's good to see more Neo-Nazis get shut down. Here in the USA, we recently had a burst of violence by the known Neo-Nazi group, the Aryan Brotherhood, to say nothing of the constant battles of Europe against its own violent facist gangs. These people may have the right to speak their minds, but companies such as CCP are under no obligation to allow repugnant and harmful views a voice in their forums. Good on you, CCP.
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Never said it was.
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Never said they did. In fact, I pointed out that "not giving someone a soapbox to speak from" does not, in any way, infringe on that person's rights. I also pointed out that that was the precise thing that CCP is doing in this case.Really, the only way an individual (or corporation) can violate someone's right to speak freely is through threats or violence. (Which is also, according to certain Libertarian thinkers, the only way a government can too.)
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You're absolutely right. Fascism does often arise from within Democracies. It starts with prohibiting certain things (especially certain forms of speech) because they're "undesirable," "subversive," "extremist," or "a threat to democracy."And the founding Fathers knew that.“If there be any among us who would wish to dissolve this Union, or to change its republican form, let them stand undisturbed as monuments of the safety with which error of opinion may be tolerated, where reason is left free to combat it.” ― Thomas JeffersonAnd modern thinkers also know that believing in freedom of speech means believing in that freedom for everyone."If you believe in freedom of speech, you believe in freedom of speech for views you don't like. Stalin and Hitler, for example, were dictators in favor of freedom of speech for views they liked only. If you're in favor of freedom of speech, that means you're in favor of freedom of speech precisely for views you despise." -Noam ChoamskyThat means you let them speak. That does not mean you have to let them speak unopposed. If they put up a soapbox, you put up a PA system. If they talk for 4 hours, you talk for 5. Demonstrate to the audience exactly how wrong they are, and their ideas can never pose a threat to anyone.
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The concept of "free speech" isn't unique to American policy.Free speech is perfectly relevant to the CSM, which revolves around player feedback and (implicitly) an open discussion. What happened here is Fon's views had nothing to do with EVE and could only detract from the kind of discussions the CSM is supposed to have.Notice how CCP didn't ban Fon for his views, just revoked his candidacy.
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Exactly. Couldn't have said it better myself.
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Suddenly, thousands of cauliflower gardens sprang up, grocery stores ran out of those vanilla Special-K bars, and debauched white women were everywhere.
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"You have the right to say asshole things. I have the right to call you an asshole and treat you like the asshole you are."
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We don't "Ignore the problem" you know why the crazy hate groups in America are generally so small? Because every non-insane person tells them that they're a crazy hate group and can go fuck themselves. They ARE held accountable for their actions: If you publicly say you're pro-Nazi/hate blacks/hate Muslims, people will think you're a piece of shit and loudly voice that opinion.
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Free speech comes with responsibility and consequence. You are free to state your extremist views, but we are free to put a boot in your mouth afterwards. Freedom goes both ways.
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We must launch orbital bombardment on the Dark Side of the Moon.
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That does not reflect reality by any stretch of the imagination at all.I cite EDL.
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If he did, it would just make it more sweet :)
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Just so long as no one ever tries to claim we have freedom of speech again. I understand the reasons behind CCPs decision, but I don't believe it's acceptable for them to decide for the player base who represents the players. Also, before someone inevitably brings up the fact that CCP is a private company and can do what it wants... please... that doesn't excuse them from criticism for their actions. Chick fil'a and the Boy Scouts are private citizens as well, but that hasn't stopped people becoming upset with them when they express certain views or exclusions. If the players voted him in (they probably wouldn't), then that would be their choice. I can better understand the LulzSec guy being given the boot, though that smells fishy as well.Since when did freedom of speech become "say anything you want so long as it doesn't offend me?" If people want freedom then they have to accept they aren't going to like all of what they get. If people don't want freedom, but would rather have a polite, strictly controlled society, then that is fine, however, don't turn around and preach about freedom of expression.
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You're absolutely right, but as for furthering the punishment, lets do it right:Let's take everyone who expresses Racist views and have them executed. Once all the Racists have been eliminated, we will enter a new golden age of mankind. It will be the final solution to the Racist question.
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lol, xenuria lulzec. xenuria wishes that.I'd guess its more likely xenuria got disqualified for his irrational behaviour.still don't get why riverini is still allowed to candidate, he has published boting tutorials, leaked ccp documents and is having isk seller adverts on his website, not exactly the guy who would be in ccp's interest either
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If you want to see real racism, visit a country with a homogenous population, like Japan. They are incredibly racist, yet have no clue they are.Racism in the US is exaggerated by people with an ax to grind. Yes, we have it in the US, but being obviously racist here is socially unrecoverable.
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glad they booted him from eligibility. wish they had been even more harsh in their vocalization against him as a candidate.
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Yes because a racist being told "no get out" is basically the same thing as mass murder
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Word. Considering the real-world damage nazi scumbags are causing in places like greece, or going back a few years, the murders in russia, its practically a safety obligation to keep these sorts of violent fucks isolated away from the players.
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Not only is it acceptable for them to tell the nazi to get fucked, its an obligation. Lets say reddit or 4chan goes full retard and tries to stack the vote in his favor for a laugh, and we get an actual neo-nazi candidate in? Its likely that iceland might not even allow the guy into the country (A lot of european countries dont allow it, australia doesnt allow it, most asian countries dont allow it, and theres a damn good chance you'll even get your ass turned away at the LA terminal too). And even if the guy turned up, considering the outrageously violent history of russias neo-nazis, would it be necessary to employ guards (maybe armed) to keep other candidates and CPP employees safe during business.Fuck it, ban the guy kick his nomination to the kurb and give it to someone who actually deserves it, ie isnt racist scum.
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I know some ardent communists in eve, should they be excluded from running? Free speech is either absolute, or it's not. And frankly who the hell cares? Neo Nazi, neo Comi, or whatever, all the maters is the type of person the candidate actually is.Everyone today wants to get in everyone's face about their personal views and control how they think. It's really a form of hatred and bigotry. You can't stand that person X thinks Y so you punish person X so they either never express Y or so they stop thinking Y is true. Why not get out the Spanish inquisition and a few torture devices why you're at it?

Fon Revedhort, a candidate for CSM, has been excluded from the election by CCP due to his Neo-Nazi views. Previously, on the Eve Online forums he had expressed several white supremacist or racist views. Some of his YouTube videos also contained Neo-Nazi songs. His candidacy was subject to much debate in the the run up to the primary elections. CCP announced in his candidacy thread, after locking it, that they would look into the matter and consider their course of action. They made their decision just after the completion of the primary. CCP Dolan's forum post

"While he is entitled to his personal opinions, CCP cannot allow someone with the views he has continued to express to represent the EVE player base, and CCP, as a member of the CSM. The presence of a player with the views that Fon Revedhort has expressed having a seat on the Council of Stellar Management (CSM) would have the potential to create charged situations between Council members and developers they would work with both virtually and in-person at summits. As such, with the Council being a vital part of our development process and a representation of our players both internally and externally, we have made our decision and removed him from eligibility."

This is the second player to be disqualified this election cycle, the other being Xenuria. Xenuria posted a YouTube rant, wherein he stated that CCP Dolan declared him a security risk. According to Xenuria himself - we can find no corroborating allegation from CCP - CCP believes that Xenuria was a part of LulzSec, a group that attacked the Eve Online servers in June of 2012. Xenuria denies membership in that organization.

(Editor's Note: This is not a platform for racist or Neo-Nazi viewpoints. Comments expressing such will be subject to deletion and punitive action.) 

Sophia 'Alizabeth' S.
Writer. Twitter: @AlizabethVea