The B0TLRD Accords: PL and CFC Amend OTEC

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The signatories of this accord are the cancer killing this game.You should feel ashamed for being bigger carebears than hisec pubbies.
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Only for those involved in said cloak and dagger. Next up is terrorism from all the disenfranchised smaller countries.... Er, alliances.
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Brave is nothing but TEST 2.0 (Goons 3.0). Recruit every warm body that doesn't know what they're doing, pile them into a fleet doctrine. The basic philosophy is just Goon/TEST. DGAF, just go out and get fights. And the same thing that happened to TEST will happen to them. They become a nullsec pawn, try to get on their own feet, discover they don't have anyone who knows what they're doing and failscade terribly. The only other option is that they just become another standard nullsec pet. I really don't get the Brave Newbie circlejerk.
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Seriously pl and goon benefit with leverage. Trapping those cfc members to stay in the cfc just to be protected.
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Same. This shit is gay.
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"You can't love this game!" Just figured that out did you?
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Ratting is for poors.
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this is why i look at both mega coaltions and laugh my ass off that either side manages to get thousands of players to sit in tidi fleets for 6 hours. being a pawn in eve has never been more terrible.PL/CFC 1 All their meatbags 0000
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Turns out Mittens's legal skills are subject to the Dunning-Kruger Effect.
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If Syndicate is a CFC home region why does PL have an R64 there?
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Well at least we know who is relevant once and for all.
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PL pussys non shocker
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Join a WH corp...
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this is gay
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Just when I thought I couldn't feel any happier avoiding blob warfare...
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This is the most retarded thing I have ever read comming out of EvE. This is complete and total drek of the highest order. Couldn't even finish it I wanted to vomit so much. grrr goons grrr
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Western Server: "Pussy chinese, EvE is about the PeeVeePee!!!!Chinese Server: "Took you 'round eyes' long enough to catch on"
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Haha wow
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I'm an atheist, so anybody praying on me is wasting their time.
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This strikes me as perhaps the dumbest thing I've ever read.
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It's called politics. Don't like it? take them both on. Large entities are within their rights to sign whatever agreements they think they need to. Safeguarding income for their player base, SRP and alliance level initiatives is a prudent action for the leaders of 2 superpowers.Also agreements break down. At the moment this suits both of them. As soon as something doesn't suit one party or the other they will go and shoot each other in the face.
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It's like they got tired of the trench grind warfare thing and decided to call a ceasefire. I blame the boringness of structure grind and the TiDi making supercap fleet fights taking as long as reading the entirety of Moby Dick.
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Elise and Grath right now. Gosh you don't even know who runs your alliance.
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banned poster
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I'd rather have cancer than space aids.
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get banned crybaby.
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I disagree, this is an out of game agreement, there are no standings/ect stopping PL or the CFC from invading. The only thing stopping them is an agreement made out of game on non CCP servers.How can CCP even regulate/buff/nerf this sort of activity?Please explain.
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Sounds like 0.0 is full of pussies.In hisec we have no such pussy agreements.You bad ass you ;>
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> Implying I have space aids.
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never thought of that one. interesting perspective.
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lol christ man your whole post has "see more," which is something I only see for news articles. True lawyering right there.
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Deadspace anomolies are considered "neutral" territory and open to full escalation, up-to and including "halp," as well as "they got me."
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You can talk once you've handed out the prizes from FOATR.
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If the things explicitly mentioned in this agreement, namely, invasions, sov wars and renter interdiction were actually feasible within the realms of being fun, then there would be no need for this treaty.Firstly; Sov wars and invasions are terribly slow, especially in a game where the best way to defend is to force your opponent to undertake the most pointless and outright boring grind known to mankind.Secondly; Renter interdiction, for small alliances or people out to hunt clueless renters, this can be fun, however the nature of 0.0 is that there is no real reason for anyone to actually live there besides endless ratting and bragging rights.Having suffered multiple nerfs to both alliance and personal wealth generation, alliances turn to renters - The original OTEC had exactly the same arrangement but in regards to Tech moons, renters are the new Technetium.If these things, at a mechanics level, were fundamentally changed to invite conflict, you would see the CFC and PL more than happy to tear each other apart.Explanation enough?
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why you heft to be mad Wick Hoobah. Hands are clean m8 hands are clean. Also Dyson is recruiting.
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You can touch me any time.
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I refuse to consider this treaty valid until this horrifying typo is corrected.
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No true Scotsman would wear a Darthed Kilth.
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If you look past the facade, this agreement is rooted in the fact that vertical progression means that the philosophy of GSF can never deal with PL's supercapital amassment and the philosophy of PL can never deal with GSF's cost-effect management of subcaps. It's not impossible for the sides to fight, but neither can sufficiently hurt the other in direct combat, so they choose to enact proxy wars and hurt the remaining groups that are still temporarily available to put some hurt onto.This isn't about space, money, friendship or anything else ... it's a shortsighted attempt at goodfites from both sides, because the option is relatively pointless headbutting in 1% TiDi.Then again, a better scoped perspective would be realize that "renter fucking" enables opportunities to spread fights around and deal with smaller numbers to some degree as well. It's still subject to shitty game-design (since fucking with renter infra would be the easiest way to fuck with hostile renters, and then we are back to timers and 1% congretation). Still, it opens up opportunities for broad renter-fucking from non-signatories (ie., your alts, and everybody else).Also, RSF bbq '08 ;).
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It seems odd that you people try so hard to turn null-sec into hi-sec, when you at the same time constantly complain about how awful hi-sec is. Keep this up and living in null means following more CFC/PL rules, then living by the CCP/Concord rules in hi-sec.Now all you need is a trade hub like Jita and hi-sec away from hi-sec is complete, i am sure lots of bears would love to move to this new utopia. I will personally stay in the good old hi-sec, i don't like anyone telling me what miners i can and can't shoot.
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You make some good points. As someone in BRAVE leadership I can tell you, we're looking at the writing on the wall in terms of our options in nulsec and none of it looks very appealing. Staying out of SOV seems like the best course of action. As for how to avoid being more like TEST 2.0/Goons 3.0 - do you have any other suggestions for us?I don't really expect BRAVE to be a place for all pilots, all the time, it's not and never will be. We try to be accepting of all people but we are very spergy in local and overly excited on comms when it comes to playing Eve. BRAVE pilots relish at the chance of sacrificing t1 cruisers for juicy capital kills so they can post them to the internet and make more circle jerk happen.We have to remind ourselves this is just a game; however, if Eve is real and I was there, I'd at least hope I was having fun. I have a lot of respect for the little bee goon fleets giving the finger to BoB. That is in essence, what this game is about - once you think you've gotten good, some rascal upstarts in hundreds of rifters show up and tackle your ratting carrier to the ground and hug it to death.
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Some typos there, power through them...I forgot to answer the question: How can CCP regulate this?They need to re-design their mechanics away from infra (timers) and onto ships (space itself).In detail:1. Go back to the design-principles of truesec (most valuable NPC's and asteroids in sovspace, least valuable NPC's and asteroids in highsec). If ships are targets and not structures, that gives direct incentives to scale down and focus more on catching ships with small ships, than having large, amassed stand-offs in big ships. You don't need a Super to catch and kill miners or ratters. This, pretty much = farms & fields.2. Go back to ship-balance principles that embraces risk-reward balance (a value closer to 1:1 for ISK vs. numbers), horizontal progression (improve Tech II and III vs. I, so the best option is not always Size+1) and deal with rampant insurance to better balance Tech I subcaps. Note: that I am not saying that "ISK vs. numbers" need to be 1:1, I am saying that the malbalance between them need to be put to check and come closer to 1:1, so eg., a HAC that cost 10x a Cruiser need to more feasibly deal with 10 Cruisers and 10 HACs need to more feasibly deal with 100 Cruisers. You can't have a design philosophy that assumes 20% increase in power for 1000% increase in cost horizontally - the result of such lunacy is that people will bring more numbers (CFC) and bigger ships (PL) because that is what you as the designer (CCP) indirectly tell them to do.3. Redesign Supers to be mobile stations rather than anti-blob EHP buffers. Any look at interactive gameplay will see that it involves letting hostile forces gain a foothold to launch strikes from (that does not just involve setting up POS for moving Capitals around): Fountain core, Venal, Curse, Stain, Syndicate and Provi all have a history of regions that promote good fights because you can't entirely infra-fuck them. Supers as mobile stations would be a step away from timers and infra-grind - toward active ships in space, to be lured and caught for meaningful and impactful fights.That solves some of the core problems and create a foundation rooted in old-EVE design-direction for present-day CCP to build from - free of stupid assumptions and poor attempts at driving player behaviour by ruining the ingame economy; as well as stupid infrastructure-solutions to a flawed core concept of using infrastructure to determine core gameplay to begin with (Dominion).
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Brave is completly aware, that they dont know what they are doing. And we know, that sov mechanics are truly boring, so we are gonna have fun in other way. Donty worry.Come to Barle for pew pew!
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#solopvp #MLG #elite #sniper #yolo #swag #smallgang #battleclinic #rekt #getrekt #killboardgreen #killstreak #maxprestige #uavonline #highscore
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But in that case, I mean my question for real. If the thing that is good about EVE is so unenjoyable for you that you will negotiate to stop non-consensual wars from happening, why aren't you playing a game that is actually designed for friendly consensual PvP? I'm sure the Star Trek MMO has battlegrounds or whatever
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Goons will still "Have a go" @ N3 renters still I am sure. Why would a rehash on an old NIP suddenly make PL do the same. Your logic is bewildering.
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We can have all the non-consensual pvp we want, it just isn't fun at a bloc level.Unironic "Don't hate the playa' hate the game".If two very powerful blocs who actively engage in war sign something like this, doesn't that tell you that something is very wrong and that they both agree on it?This treaty is about renters and sov; renters are the new Tech moons because there's no incentive to live in 0.0 at all, outside of running a space slum and bragging rights, and current sov mechanics mean each side will fight the other down to a stand still with nothing to show for it.I like what Eve has been and could be again, but right now it is really uninteresting.
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Additionally, since the games inception, lag has always been a consideration by FCs with large fleets, CCP has always played catch-up as far as this is concerned.I think we may have outstripped CCP to the point of breaking this time however.
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Sov is broken. The only way to make CCP fix things to prove they are broken, Mittens is doing that. Hopefully CCP will take notice and prioritize fixing the sov system.
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F.CK PL !!!!
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PL scared CFC/RUS dreads .FInish this scum.No mercy :D
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Did you read my reply?I sort of blurted it out, but it should at least give you the gist of how designer behaviour relate to player behaviour.We have a mexican standoff between two entities who have gamed the system into said impasse; we have a developer reluctant to touch upon the related core issues and the player groups choosing to just opt out of the poor mechanics, enacting a short-sighted solution of their own in absence of a proper long-term solution (easy money, better targets, scaling down on their own - within a system that promotes scaling up).PL can't hurt GSF because their ships cost nothing to replace.GSF can't hurt PL because they need ships that cost something to achieve that.PL adapted to the vertical scaling in 2009 (when CCP began shafting Tech II subcaps) and have since put all their resources into Capital amassment. If you look at recent history, most changes in the past few years have hurt them the most (or smaller high-risk even more); and their most recent compromises have simply been to grow in "numbers of Capitals".GSF have always rested upon finding the most cost-effective option to throw their superior numbers into and overwhelm opponents who risk more expensive ships, minimizing loss and finding an acceptable performance level. If there have been a cheap ship with a questionable performance-rate in high-number fleets you can bet that the GSF have tried their hands at it - wether that has been utilizing Rifters, Drakes or Long Range Battleships.Both of these opposing perspectives on how to game to system to best effect are products of timers from infrastructure and other static objectives. Neither of them are very effective in an EVE of old based on ratting and mining where spreading out all over the game was promoted by the mechanics.When Dominion hit in 2008, everybody already knew that there was an issue with infrastructure - the so called POS-grind was a much debated topic as early as 2006. The problem with Dominion was that it took one infrastructure grind and replaced it with another (arguably worse-) infrastructure grind based on churning through hitpoints on static objects and awaiting timers.The problems and the solutions in 2014 are the same as in 2006 - away from static objectives, hitpoint grinds and timers - toward ships, in space, at different locations. A system where larger fleets and larger ships are not so obviously better than any other approach.
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An Eve without Goons or N3 is an Eve that will soon be conquered by the next Goons and N3. The strategies and meta gaming they employ work whether you like them or not.
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O darling.
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Whyever do you look so ghastly?
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Didn't actually ban
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Not you, your alliance.
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It was literally hashed out by lawyers representing both coalitions. It was surreal, and yet, so real./edit .. disqus grrrr .. wrong profile
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Better call Saul.
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lol you are all pets. Being told how many sub caps you can have is how I would run my alliance too....... BAHAHAHAHAHA.
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They should change alliance mechanics to encourage smaller alliances.
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Thank NORKdot.
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Sounds like a job for Xystance.
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Player generated content.
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This is a long way from corporate law. It's actually fairly easy to read and understand.
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this site has no word filters set you don't need to put a fucking period in there you could just say "fuck"
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It says no hostile supers used in friendly space.
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If you want to play in the sov game what you need, aside from a sponsor to couch surf on, is actual thinkers. All the most successful and the weedy types that pop up every time you crush them have within their body people who have such :passion: for the game that they take it completely not seriously at all.Such is their satire that if you were to put them side by side with the stereotypical no-life unlovable psychopath from null (complete with booster alt, cyno alt, hisec mission alt, market bot, miner bot, CODE. alt) you would not see the difference at all.
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The jokes about EVE being a second job. They are all over.
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MORE MONEY! WOO
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CCP.... more NPC Null! PLEASE! Sov is killing everything!Honestly, the grind of sov warfare has killed null. I love it when you have to watch local, and pvp could happen at any time, but waking up for timers every 3-4 hours, staring at a titan's ass waiting for a jump that may or may not happen, etc. killed EvE for me.
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The agreement is kinda disappointing, but i guess that just how the game is designed, you can make more isk by not fighting then you can by fighting...
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What about no stapler theft ?
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CONCORD aint gonna save you from me.
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Dead Tear is a bit upset - http://i.imgur.com/HdoRmPD.png
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The two most contentious policies in game.Both designed to keep GSF and PL as top dogs.How id love every other alliance to just fuck these two up,and wreck them.For causing such stagnation,and boredom in null..Why CCP allows it is beyond me ,but then its an agreement between players ,and not a game mechanic.Best way to bust it is for CCP to actually limit the amount of blues a corp and alliance can have .Until that happens null will continue to be stagnant ,and boring.Instead of the dynamic,semi- ,chaotic space its supposed to be
 
(Editor's Note: The following was posted on both PL and Goonswarm Federation forums this morning, during the preparation for the HED-GP conflict.)

OTEC and the B0TLRD Accords

 
Objectives:
The objectives of OTEC and the B0TLRD Accords are to to continue along the road paved two years ago under the initial OTEC agreement by securing the territories and income generating abilitys of both CFC and PL.  
 
OTEC
No "sov fuckery" or organized renter harassment in designated home regions.   
Further defined to include the following actions:
*shooting (or repping) of infrastructure towers, money towers, stations, SBUs, TCUs, IHUBs, POCOs
*siphoning of moons or using future idiotic CCP modules like the new ESS
*harassment of renters (individual fuckery will be cracked down on through best efforts)
*assisting non-signatories in doing any of the above
 
B0TLORD Accords
Neither PL nor CFC are restricted by this agreement with regard to their bluelists, and this agreement does not necessitate a "blue" relationship between the two entities.  The goal of the B0TLRD accords is to maintain space and income levels amidst a myriad of proxy-wars and territorial disputes.  
 
Both CFC and PL agree to prohibit the following actions in one anothers designated "home space"
*attacking signatory supercapitals, supercapital fleets, and capital fleets
*bringing any caps greater than five triage carriers and a bridging Titan
*bringing a strategic-level subcapital force (more than 250 subcaps)
 
The following restrictions apply to so-called Buffer Regions:
 
CFC agree not to assist any non-signatory in the conquest or capture of Buffer Regions.  Attending fights with non-strategic level fleets (no caps/supers beyond five triage and a bridge titan, no more than 250 subcaps) is perfectly acceptable.  There are no such restrictions should the CFC decide to invade the buffer regions to take them for the CFC. The buffer regions are to be controlled by PL-allies or the CFC should they decide to invade.  Allowing non-signatories to base out of signatory sov in the buffer zone constitutes a violation (Black Legion cannot stage in CFC sov in a buffer zone, nor can NCdot stage out of PL sov in a buffer zone).  
 
In buffer zones, CFC will  not contest future PL sov attempts should they desire to expand their empire. These are designated 'expansion zones' and should PL/BOT seize them, they will be considered home regions for the purposes of this treaty. 
 
Regarding attacks on non-signatories within designated home regions:
 
Each side may initiate an unrestricted attack in home regions against assets, structures, and fleets of non-signatories. If a signatory responds by aiding the non-signatory, both sides may escalate to caps and supers as desired, but will still not violate any of the sov/structure aspects of the above provisions. 
 
If a signatory is currently using non-signatories in a combined action against a third party while on home territory, it is not permissible to intervene. For example, if a combined PL and NCdot fleet is being used to defend Malpais, it is not permissible for the CFC to attack the NCdot segment of the combined PL/NCdot fleet. Similarly, if the CFC is working with Black Legion against a third party, it is not permissible for PL to attack the BL segment of the combined fleet. 
 
 
Regarding NPC Space within Home Regions: 
 
While PL has a special situation with its need for renter regions and buffer zones, the CFC has a special situation regarding NPC space littering the galactic West. Therefore, special understandings apply.
 
In the regions of Pureblind and Fountain CFC reserve the right to refuse PL transport carrier groups, should the area be deemed a war zone, the presence of PL a destabilizing force, or for any other reason. PL is to ask permission of the CFC before sending any sizeable (20+) transport carrier group into NPC Pure Blind or NPC Fountain. The other areas of NPC sov designated as Home Regions (Syndicate, Outer Ring, Venal, NPC Delve) can be convoyed to freely without any need for a diplomatic request. 
 
Within NPC Home Regions, all of the above provisions of B0TLRD and OTEC apply normally.
 
Regarding proxywars in relation to the B0TLRD Accords:
 
Should the sovereignty of Home Regions or Buffer Regions be markedly affected by the direct support of either party, the terms of the B0TLRD Accords may be deemed void.  Of course since the objective of this agreement is to secure income security for both parties, an open dialog is expected - and notice given - before this type of action is taken.  
 
Should one side flagrantly and intentionally violate either B0TLRD or OTEC (rather than a negotiated withdrawal before any violation occurs) , both treaties will be considered void. Example: if a PL capfleet drops on a CFC capfleet in Fountain, this is technically only a violation of B0TLRD, but it will scrap OTEC as well.
 
"Fuckups happen" rule:
Non-catastrophic violations, i.e. rogue members, do not necessarily constitute nullifying the above agreements but an open line of communication is to be expected.  
 
Definitions:
 
CFC Home Regions: 
 
Branch, Tenal, Venal, Vale of the Silent, Tribute, Deklein, Fade, Pure Blind, Cloud Ring, Outer Ring, Syndicate, Fountain, Delve, Period Basis, Querious. This is minus BL/SOLAR sov, as they are not signatories.
 
PL Home Regions: 
 
PL/BOT sov in Oasa, Outer Passage, Malpais, The Spire, and the spattering of SOV 5 systems currently under PL control. This is minus N3 sov, as they are not signatories. 
 
PL Buffer Zones: 
 
Perrigen Falls, Kalevala Expanse, Etherium Reach, Cache, Insmother, Detorid
The Mittani
Goonswarm Federation CEO, Space Tyrant. Likes yoga, Alaskan Malamutes, bacon, and delegation.