Why Newbies Quit Eve

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This is what is called "reaping what you sow".As has often been stated every action has consequences , and it could be that the consequences of certain action could be a dead game...
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That highsec pubbie they are killing is likely another newb who will quit the game.
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Helping the new players should be a priority, if you can get them up to snuff and get them out to nullsec equals more people with more guns and more fights. We all were that wide eyed noob once (well in my consideration as with alot of you had no tutorial), and im sure a lot of us got help from someone somewhere to keep us going. So lets return the favor of sorts and train new players
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I often tell noobies to look into joining E-Uni. Its a great place for a noob to start off to get into the whole community thing with talking to others and learning game mechanics. Maybe it would be an idea that certain corps like this, noob friendly that will take time to introduce noobs to the game to be more promoted to players as they join the game. The older players may know about them but newer players dont untill they are told about it. A simple option for noob friendly corps could be added to the corp finder and then players such as E-Uni would be instantly shown to them without the need for them to be told in the first place.
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I have to say I do love teaching new players how to pvp and have fun at it. Nothings better then helping them get the first taste of blood and wanting to go out and do it more.
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Missions are the most boring part of this game, what does the tutorial start you doing? missions.Whenever I have brought my RL friends into the game its a monumental struggle trying to show them whats fun.Well in order to pvp you need to spent 15 minutes doing nothing to use a warp scrambler. Well in order to fly this ship you have to wait till tomorrow etc, doing nothing. Then when we pvp it might be 30 minutes and see no one. Maybe my friend didn't properly approach and he got vaporized.I have seen level 1 missions where the thing you need to destroy isn't adequately labeled and even I had to google a guide to help my friend finish it. Their is not enough instant gratification or a player may not understand the weight of what is going on. Look at all these crazy ship names and how come when I fight them they kick my ass for some obtuse reason."I jumped into lowsec alone and got vaporized then podded by something called a tornado? What is that is it a frigate? I cant put anything on my ship, oh i have to wait a day to do that? damn. Oh how do I make money? Do missions? I just got the same mission twice in a row, all im doing is popping the same red boxes over and over. This is boring, how come my guns are hitting? I saw this thing called an obelisk I want it, oh I have to spend a year doing nothing and I don't unlock anything along the way? What are the better missions like? oh shoot bigger red boxes. I wanna be a pirate! Oh i got one shot and these pirates wont let me in."In world of warcraft things are simple and the basic mechanic hooks your right away. Kill 10 boars, YOU GAINED A LEVEL! In eve its confusing, their is a lot of downtime and it takes to long to get people into the fun parts, even then their is a lot of downtime, you have to get emotionally attached to it.
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When I brought my RL friend into the game the first thing I did was give him a training plan for a rifter, 50m isk and had him join FW. He died so many times I would have lost count if not for eve kill, but we got him flying better and now 2 1/2 years later he has been a ceo of his corp, is an FC and has gone from a very red KB to a very green one. Of course we tried helping another new player who just got to over whelmed and left for 1 year, but he is back so we are taking things much much slower.
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the autor angry_mustache is not Dolan / michaelbolton by any chance? xDAnyways, the big barrier that EvE has for new players, is on the other side a good thing to keep the casual bling-bling-hunters away. We need new blood, that is absolutely correct. But not at any cost.E-Uni and others are a great value to the community, so I recommend them to new players and we do some teaching, too. We need players who really want to understand the game, but not those who like the do-that-and-get-that-scheme...
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I've had something like 6-7 goes at Eve since 2005, and only my current attempt has lasted more than 2 months. I've been playing almost a year this time, and I have to say outside of mining I'm still as utterly clueless as I was in 2005. I love depth of game play, but Eve doesn't half make thing complicated. I read you helping the newb above with dual 180 AC and I'm thinking, they sound cool, I wish I had me some of those.........I agree the goons seem to have the right idea with treating newbs as pure potential. In a game where blob size rules only a fool restricts the inflow of fresh resources. I think it all stems from maturity - How often do we see Darktide syndrome in real life where people try to bolster their own social standing by mockng those that they see as inferior or newbish. Yeah I know maturity doesn't go with scamming and "griefing" ( whatever that is ) outside of Eve, but Eve is an environment where people don't have to behave respectably, and I think a lot of players use that an a chance to play the other side. Goons don't give a fuck at being elite, proud of terribad, and that attitude isn't conducive to mocking newbs for being newbs - I'd argue this shows more maturity than people would like to admit. I think it also shows acknowledgement that it's only a game also and that Eve isn't taken too seriously. Also how much must it hurt those elite players to get arse whupped over and over by a large blob of self proclaimed morons? Those tears must be sweet indeed.Despite appearances this isn't a puff piece for the goons, the point I'm trying to make is that I think maturity leads to perspective, and treating new players well is probably the single most effective strategy any alliance can adopt to "win" at Eve. To backup this point I cite the sov map.
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It is up to ccp to fix that. There are tons of suggestions to them, which they never comment so there is no way to know which way the game will go. Unfortunately I dont see any improvement in the way they comunicate with players on forums/petitions since Jita protest and that is a sure way to get another protest.If players should invest time to recruit, train and develop the game they deserve better treatment from CCP.
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Another problem with this game, its boring. From a newcomers point of view.In WoW if I want to pvp I click a button and im teleported into the fray and I bash a shit load of skulls.In eve under the best circumstances you may have to wait 10 minutes between fights, after refitting, buying everything getting their, and engaging with no guarantee it will be a fair fight.
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I used to kill thrashers off the kisogo undock back when I was like a 2mil toon myself . its the first "pvp" encounter most people have . but if some faggot in an instacane with a 30mil+ SP Character keeps a newbie system shut down with bait I screen that fucker and report him.teaching new players can be fun and exciting . and if you do it right they stick with you and your corp . Its like patting and feeding a dog . the dog will start loving you , stay by your side and do everything for you . You just dont help eve in overall , its also a very effective recruitment strategy for your corp.
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The number 1 thing CCP could do at this point is to murder the fuck out of the Rookie Help channel (which is home to some of the worst shitty answers I've seen in my entire life) and start anew. A moderated channel with people that have /proper/ experience in the game answering the questions instead of the kind of self-fulfilling idiocy that comes out of Rookie Help at the moment.I spent about an hour in there last week after starting a new account for a cyno guy, and saw the typical "null/lowsec is BAD they will KILL you", terminology issues, bad recommendations, fitting advice that'd be more likely to kill you than save you, etc., etc.With that kind of "help" it's no wonder newbies quit.
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also getting newbies into the ~eve is missions~ mindset is terrible
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I co-run one of the biggest Goon squads and ran our newbie scheme for ages until it was passed off to another fine member of our establishment, and I can say without a shadow of a doubt that our service, as great as it is (and it's really good) is the equal of every other newbie service in Goons. We adore newbies.We've one newbie right now who wanted to "get a point on the titan, cos it's the biggest thing there is" and who didn't bother fitting guns because "my job is to tackle, i can watch you people make the things explode". He is currently a several-billionaire because he's so adorable and enthusiastic that we can't help but shower him with money. Nothing warms the heart more than a newbie. Nothing. He doesn't have to even think about paying for the game now for about 5 months because he's just so adorable. And this is not a rare occurrence at all, quite the opposite in fact.Newbies are the lifeblood of the goons and we have mentor wings, free ships, an extensive and well-maintained wiki and support from every aspect of the alliance to get new players used to this terrible game. I honestly couldn't imagine playing eve without the immense help and brilliant schemes that goons employ and, despite being a dyed-in-the-wool goon myself, were I to start fresh after having been crippled with amnesia, I couldn't find a better place than GW.I often despair of so called "elite" corps that have a skillpoint requirement and I've often hotly argued with allied corps who have just that. But this is what comes from being a benevolent, wealthy organisation - we can afford to shower our new players with love. We have nothing to prove, but lots of fun to be had. This isn't a propaganda piece about goons (but seriously, goons rule and we love our newbies), more of a plea for other corps and alliances to implement the same sort of teaching and sponsorship programmes to make sure new players can survive the terrible first couple of months.
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newbies quit because no-one in his right mind plays the same game over and over again - you play it for a month or two, and then you go to the next one that just got launched. or you just grow out of playing computer games.
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One idea I had was if you join a corp within a month of joining EVE and stay in it for 3 months that corp gets a billion ISK from CCP.This would make corps compete to get newbs and keep them entertained and engaged. You could farm newbs into 3 month players.This would also really help EVE Uni, Ouch, RvB, Agony Unleashed etc get funding.
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There are solutions to this. From what I hear theres a thing called Red versus Blue where you can join and then have thousands of people you can shoot at.
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When a single guy can rat a billion in less than a day without effort, I doubt a billion is going to make people that normally look down on newbies take then under their wings.
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mining needs to be removed from the tutorials, its like the grim reaper of newbiesand ideally ban mining corps from recruiting new players, they suck the soul out of a newbie...when he finally breaks free he's skilled into things he will never use again
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CCP can't really do anything about the fact that older players are generally shitlords to newbies.
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I've been playing on a trial lately coming in blind with no friends. So far I think the game is pretty cool. I like exploring and the intro missions have helped me understand some parts of the game. I'd like to grab a bigger mining ship and get some drones to help me with mining and focus on making money for myself for a little bit.Despite all that, having read this article and the comments in here about how "it's not a good game" and how "terrible the community is," I'm a little hesitant to pick up my first PLEX. It's like the more I learn about this game from other people, the less I like. It is true that I've had fun so far, but a lot of folks who play the game make it sound so abysmal!
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I have argued at both CSM7 summits that CCP should make newbie mentoring an in-game profession, where you make ISK if your newbies become paying customers more often than average, and lose ISK if they don't. All it would take is a basic matchmaking system to connect people, and a chat channel for the mentor and his newbies.
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1. Make alts. 2. join alt corp. 3. profit.
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The way I see it, Goons and Test are do not have big and funded Newbie programs because they are big, fat, and rich, although the wealth does add a layer of largess. They are big, fat, and rich because of their successful newbie program, which draws in newbies and keeps them flying in fleets, building corps and fleets big enough for them to carve out that lucrative Sov.
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I don't know whether to be insulted or honored that someone thinks i'm MBIII, no i'm a line E-uni member who signed up with TMDC to write about tanks, and occasionally put out a newbie related piece.
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The devil is in the details:Does the code exist in game to automatically track newbie retention and then pay ISK to the mentor?What counts as retention? (One purchased month? Three?)How does a mentor lose ISK? Can their wallet go negative or does the mentor pony up a surity bond first?What's to be done with lazy mentors who disappear?What's to be done with sinister mentors who grief their noobs?Still, it's a clever idea that would appeal to those that enjoy teaching and definitely worth exploring.
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I am not in E-Uni or Red Vs. Blue, but i would suggest you join them. I Have been playing for 3 years now and pulled a few friends into it. Eve is very hard if you are brand new walking into it blind. A lot of website and information is outdated. Really mate, you need E-Uni, RvB to show you around for a bit.
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You know it is actually hard as a newbro to play the game. I recall as a wide eyed noob that I once played missions in a high-sec system neighboring lowsec and always knew not to take the ones that sent me there. Every single time I tried to venture out of the safe zone I was popped almost instantly. One day on a whim I took that mission because I needed ISK. Midway through the mission uncloaks an Arazu at 40km pointed, dampened there was nothing I could do. Seconds later a whole gang showed up just to pop me. After getting ganked I recall asking them if they would let me come back to pick up a mission specific item without blowing me up - NO. This interaction almost made me quit the game. Had I done so I would have missed out on years of excitement and fun especially the past two years which have been fantastic for me. But at the time my level was so low and my attachment as well that a single incident very nearly did derail everything. That's the challenge this article talks about and we need as a community to figure out the right balance between 'EvE is a game of hardasses for hardasses' and 'EvE must grow as a community to survive'. Lots has changed in mechanics since then but people with bloodlust on their mind will always find a way. Shame on those who take advantage of new players frankly.
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Yes because most new players are even going to be able to find Rvb
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Yes because all the new players will even bother, no. Also ive been playing since 2009 im no noob, im just pointing out the newbs perspective.
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I think the biggest reason newbies leave is that Eve is an open sandbox, and most MMO gamers are used to themepark MMOs with spoon-fed content. Not knowing what to do, not progressing from zone to zone, not having tangible character progression (i.e. levels and gear), as well as boring PvE are the reasons they quit. To stay in Eve, you have to know something about the game, and why it's special.To make it better, I'd get rid of NPC corps, so players would feel compelled to join player corps and fleet up. Maybe corps could pay "Diplomatic fee's" or whatever to avoid being wardec'ed, that would scale in cost with the corp age. I'd also encourage CCP to create more engaging, group orientated PvE content specifically designed for newish players. Something maybe like incursions-lite, requiring smaller groups and smaller ships. One thing that's going to be really hard to overcome is the fact that when a lot of players start a new game, they're kind of shy, and reluctant to group up for fear of exposing their lack of experience/skill. In other games, these players solo for a period of time. Unfortunately, Eve sucks as a solo game.
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Being a sandbox is the attractive factor, the reason people leave eve is because its confusing and noobs do only the least attractive parts of the game. World of warcraft pve is many many many fold more attractive than eve's. Also, incursions.
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Give your head a shake. You say his story doesn't add up but then list a number of skills which are not at all intuitive and which new players are simply not taught how to use effectively:- Watching local is hard when you're also paying attention to rats that you barely know how to kill - highly experienced players like I'm sure you are forget that getting locked by anything is stressful to a newb. Plus, nowhere does the game teach you that local is a good intel source.- Tutorials do not introduce dscan properly or give any indication that it's a useful tool. Also, in hi-sec, many of the missioning systems are relatively busy thus reducing the effectiveness of dscan due to clutter. In addition, for his dscan to have picked up the hostile in your example, he would have needed to be spamming the scan button during the 10 second period the hostile happened to decloak. Again, not a habit you learn running missions in hi-sec. You then need to account for the fact that nowhere in the tutorial would you be taught to rat aligned, and thus be able to instawarp... so factor in a 2-3 second align time.- Where in the tutorial does it teach you that an Arazu has a 6 second locking delay and 3s targeting time? I must have missed that part. I must have also missed the part where it teaches you that an Arazu isn't a normal hi-sec ratting / whatever ship. If I'm a newb I just see a frigate-class fighter which from my perspective is pretty much all I can fly.- The game tells you to get out there and get socialized... When you're new and someone warps onto you, frankly the natural response is not "oh fuck I need to escape"... it's "hey! I'm new and want to make friends! Can you help me with these super-challenging destroyer rats?"
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Interesting that the corp best known for recruitment scamming is advocating the benefits of new players.
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They should rather just merge rookie help and general help. EVE already has a general help channel, which is moderated (sometimes badly) by CCP's ISD team. Maybe have a Rookie Pub channel for general new player discussion, if at all.
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In addition to their newb-friendly attitude, Goons and TEST have another big advantage that helps them recruit and retain newbies too, though -- they are big, and have always been big because their genesis came from a large forum of people all deciding to join up together in Eve at the same time. Sure, their newb-friendly stance helps them grow larger, but when you start big you have a couple big advantages:1) Like in the original X-Com (and unlike the new one), if you have a big team to start with, you can mix in a number of newbies without significantly impacting your combat effectiveness. Two newbies flying with a fleet of 10 people is going to be a lot more problematic than twenty newbies flying with a group of 100 people, because in a fleet of 10, everyone is such a huge part of the chain one weak link can ruin the whole thing, If you have a huge group, weak links can be compensated for much easier (and you can have a couple of people who can be primary concerned with wrangling the newbies).2) If you have a big group, it's much more likely that you're going to have someone online whenever a random newbie logs in. I moved to the West Coast last year and now during my prime time my corp barely has anyone logged in when I'm playing. It's less of an issue since I'm an old bittervet now, but if I was a newbie that would be a huge problem -- I joined the corp to get a leg up, and now no one's around to give me a hand! On the other hand, Goons, TEST, and other 1000+ person alliances generally have decent time zone coverage regardless of the hour -- and there's never NO ONE else online, at least. I'd love to recruit some PST newbies to my corp and help them out, but if I'm the only one playing at that time it seems crappy (and during nights when I have other stuff going on, they'll end up in the same boat I'm in now).So, I don't want to say that Goons and TEST are just getting lucky or benefiting from inertia (I still think that one Goonswarm recruitment poster about how the other enemy alliance completely disintegrated because you, the week old newb in a frigate, managed to tackle someone is the best advertisement for Eve ever), but they do have some hefty advantages even non-arrogant smaller corps can't take advantage of.
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Congratulations, you don't understand goons at all, despite the numerous explanations on this very page.
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Player of 6 months here, like you coming in almost completely blind. (I did have 2 friends pick it up at the same time: one has quit after 5 months.) I don't think the PVE content is as awful as bittervets make it out. It may suck compared to other MMOs, but it is still interesting -- for a while.. Where the vets are right is that the PVE is not engaging in the long run.I found mining interesting for about 1 evening. Then I did missioning and never touched a miner again. I found missions interesting for about a month. Then I discovered exploring and have barely missioned since. I dabbled in trade, but found little money there and carrying stuff is boring. I also got into static market ops at Jita, which does pay. I find the trade game interesting and still do it, but less since I have enough money now, and also it chaps my ass competing with obvious robots. I found exploring interesting until I had enough cash, and again, slacked off. I am currently playing with PI, which is dull as dirt but pays pretty well, and thinking about manufacturing. These are my continuing search to make money without significant play time invested -- all so I can do things other than make money.Out of all this the only thing that really keeps me interested is PVP in some form or another. This, to me, is the secret sauce that Goons have: they can stick a newbee directly into PVP, have him lose many ships, and afford it all easily. It's also good that they can tell him how and why to fit, where to be, etc. But the main thing is getting him into PVP in whatever form.
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The easiest solution sounds kind of obvious when you type it out, but it really is the best way: put more thought into who you sign up with. There are an infinite number of corps in EVE, but there's big names you read about in the news and people you've never heard of posting in the recruitment forum. There's nothing wrong with trying to join a small corp on the ground floor, but if you've tried that a bunch and it's not working out for you do something different. Join a well established corp or the next time you find a corp on the recruitment forum, check out their killboard for activity or spend more time talking to their members.EVE's only a lonely place if you want it be.
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If the newbie doesn't indulge (or "bother" as you say) in a bit of self education, he wouldn't enjoy EVE anyway - an harsh world where friendly players can show you the door, but it's ultimately you who has to enter it.
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"So in my first EVE month ever I'd spend a week or more straight doing nothing but sitting in a station. I think it would be great if some corp were designated as learning corps and couldn't be war decced. I know it goes against everything the game stands for but it was a massive annoyance and ultimately I stopped playing."What makes you dismiss the possibility that there could be any other sane reaction to a war-dec other than staying docked 23/7 so easily?
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Can someone sponsor me into GoonWaffe? This is my third time trying to break into EVE and I really don't want to wait 3 months to get into a good corp.
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I've looked at Goons from both sides now,From up and down and still somehow --It's Goons' Illusions I recall;I really don't know Goons .... at all!http://www.youtube.com/watch?v...
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You missed my point entirely (which is probably my fault for not making it clear enough).My point is that he felt powerless but that he probably was not nearly as powerless as he believed himself to be.The "crucial issue" I referred to is that it is much easier for himself and for his social group to pretend that he actually was powerless rather than to investigate his mistakes."There was nothing you could have done, low-sec is just no place for newbies. Stay out of there in the future" is so much easier than digging into the events leading up to his death and trying to extract his mistakes so he can learn from them.The game itself provides no feedback on your mistakes other than "you died" (and I can't imagine any way how it could provide decent feedback) and most players prefer living in a "I'm a new player and thus powerless" world rather than living in a "I'm a new player and I make mistakes all the time" world."I am powerless" - player feels good about himself but blames the game for being imbalanced and quits,"I suck" - player feels bad about himself and quits.That's the problem that needs to be solved and I have no clue how to solve it.Placing the player into a large fleet where he can feel powerful as one cog in the machine and his own mistakes are of little consequence (and remain well hidden from his own and his peers' eyes) only postpones the issue but doesn't solve it.On a sidenote:as for what is and what isn't in the tutorials - you'd be amazed at the sort of information that gets stuffed down a newbie's throat.I recently rolled a fresh alt which I did all tutorials and career agent missions with and there are short introductions to many different topics included in almost every mission (2-3 paragraphs of text below the left-hand side mission description). I had to rub my eyes when one of these texts explained the workings of HICs in quite some detail (which did of course have have no connection to the mission whatsoever),The tutorials also frequently link to the evelopedia nowadays (e.g. http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/w... is linked to several times) but my impression is that the quality of new players' fittings hasn't improved at all since latest tutorial revamp (Inferno 1.2).The problem is generally less a lack of knowledge itself but a lack of context (and detailed feedback) - massive amounts of knowledge get thrown at the newbie and most of that knowledge is just ignored because he doesn't have a place to put it yet.
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Cognitive dissonance. Trust is essential while you shouldn't trust anyone -- being scammed/stolen from is *YOUR* fault while trying to "do it all yourself" is 'boring' and "your fault".Welcome to EVE.It makes bloated groups and tiny fragmented groups- where scavengers do everything they can to join and destroy the small groups - especially "at the ground floor".Without knowledgeable management, a small group cannot afford to try and grow large. They will draw in spies and thieves who will destroy them for bragging rights and lulz."Join a well established corp" - welcome to TEST - all 10k+ members. Welcome to Goons with their 3k+ members. Welcome to EVE University with it's over 1700 members. Welcome to ...Either it's bloating or it's small and small means few to run with, even if it is an excellent fit for your attitudes and play style.So either you end up in a place where there are those who you'd like to put on ignore lists or you end up with some "good folks" where you rarely get a decent sized group to hang with.It's a vastly larger issue than "complexity". To put a generic expression for EVE players on the topic of complexity:That which I pick up easy, I also walk away from easily - it gets boring quickly. That which is complex and diverse in what it offers of interest to me, I will stick with for quite some time.Only once I've mastered the complexities to my satisfaction will I find it tedious and boring. For some, that has taken a VERY long time. For others, it comes around sooner. "this part of EVE is what I'm interested in and it's now boring/a grind".
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"For a bit", maybe. The problem with RvB and e-uni is they are perma-decced. So if you want to go off on your own and do something different, or just fly to Jita and buy some stuff, you can't. How does a new player make money while in RvB? Station market games aren't for everyone.
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"(and you failed at watching dscan)"The problem is how casually you just throw that in there. New and new-ish players have many things to learn, and many things that are second nature to you, they need to dedicate their full attention to. Sometimes I get overwhelmed with rats, because I don't rat in a carrier or a 2 billion ISK dedspace/officer Tengu, and suddenly realize I haven't even checked local or intel for 5 minutes. A 50 man Goon roam might be next door or a dozen LOST redeemers crawled out of a hole next to me, I have no idea. Especially now that you have to full-time babysit your drones like a mother hen.When I first started, I decided to visit the local low sec pocket, and spent a while killing the 500k ISK bounty rats there, big money for me at the time. This took a while, because all I had was an Omen. I noticed one of the players in local got a red skull, and as I was trying to figure out what that meant, a Slepneir warped on top of me, blew me up, and left. Just like that. No reason. Didn't say anything. Haven't seen him since (the 1 month long kill rights just added insult to injury every time I had to see that screen). I can imagine how for many new players that might have been the beginning of the end, where they go 'wow, this game kinda sucks'.The tutorials cover lots of ground, and it's not that it's a lot of information and we're too stupid to absorb it all, but it's a lot of meaningless information that's impossible to absorb. And you still don't know what dscan is at the end of it.
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Goons don't need to target noobs because there is little isk and satisfaction fleecing one. Now nailing highsec denizens who have been there for ages is great because they'll always continue to Auto-pilot from Rens to Jita for the entire game.... Screw em! :)
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Real question : do Goons have some policies about scamming / ganking / harassing newbies who are not blue to them ?Cause it's nice to help a lot those who are with them, but if they are griefing the neutrals newbies to a point of them wanting to stop playing at the same time...
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You buy stuff in Jita the same way the big nullsec alliances do it - you create a new character, move them to Jita and transfer them some money. You buy your stuff, and then make a courier contract to where you need the stuff (nb put a reasonable collateral on it - 110% of value of the items works), and then contract the items to your main.
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Sure it was my fault and at the time I didn't realize there was a delay. BYW the arazu as a cov ops cruiser with it's specific cloaking device has no targeting delay. That wasn't the key issue in the story though and yes it was entirely true. A noob isn't going to have fast reaction times anyway. Sure you should expect that proficiency out of me now and instead now I would just feel dumb for getting caught not even mad. At the time though (and this is the critical issue) I was mad/angry, did feel powerless, and didn't like how a group of people can destroy my hard earned work or be so heartless about my mission specific item that I had to fail because they were unreasonable with a character in game less than a year. That hurt and stung like pouring salt in an open wound. This is what is happening to our new players. A lot of the people who fly around are just plain assholes and that hasn't changed. We have a culture problem in EvE. Goons themselves in conjunction with TEST later both have tried in their organizations to mitigate this by championing the 'newbro' and trying very hard to integrate those people, make them feel welcomed, and make sure their balance sheets are nicely buffed so they don't get discouraged. At least someone is trying.
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Good little article, thanks.Despite these retention woes, eve is doing ok. The growth and retention within eve is, IIRC, a shining example of things working. ofc they could be better, but it seems they're not as god awful as we may be tempted to believe.As an experienced eve player with just six months in CFC I can attest to the approach of those awful 'goons'. Goons put a lot of thought into their noobs, their recent 'fly a slasher' push being just another small example.The goon approach to noobs, alongside their approach to allies v renters, is very inclusive and very encouraging. I've been in fleets with some of their worst FCs, and even they go out of their way to get the new guys doing something meaningful ... and the 'shower isk upon our little tackle hero nood who died" example is very real.The main downside of the goons' wonderful noob nurture program is that it spews even more goons out into the eve cosmos.
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I doubt you'll see tacklemallers as none of our fleets are armour based.
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I've run several noob recruitment & training corps for more than one alliance, & have been landed with the responsibility of running the mentorship program for FA (soon TM *coff*) I never had a soft landing myself in Eve-my ex who got me into this madness left me to my own devices, my 1st corps were friendly, but pretty much left me to it as well-barely left hi sec for nearly a year & no pvp abilities to speak of . So when I was asked to start a training corps I lept at the opportunity to give new players the help I never had. Eve University is a marvellous thing-but you do have to write a bloody essay to get in lol. RvB I've found to be more user friendly if you are desperate to pvp. But having a training plan has speeded up the process for my newbies-so they can be the bloodthirsty killers they want to be a damn sight sooner than I was!There are many successful corps/alliances out there that have hi sec divisions, some of them very organised indeed-the problem is for a new player its a bloody minefield, because they don't know what to really look for in a corps. So you get a bunch of noobs, starting a corps of their own & trying to recruit other noobs who don't have a clue what they are doing either. They join a corps of say, 20, mostly alts to beef up numbers..& guess what...no one is ever logged in, so they get frustrated & bored, and could quit the game at that point. So you have this dilema where someone is striving to start their own corps, recruiting new players is a good way of getting numbers, but then they don't know what to do with them once they have them, & haven't a clue how to incentivise these new players to keep logging in & complete their training. So the larger corps & alliances will always have an advantage. But talking from experience-I was far to intimidated to approach the bigger corps & alliances out there-'I'm a total noob, they won't want me!' silly of me-but that's how people think! Walking a total newbie thro their 1st steps on their wet shaky little legs, that can't hardly undock in a straight line, to their 1st freighter gank-will always give me a warm feeling.But it's all about taking the time! Answering their daft questions, helping them fit their ships. Letting them get ganked & blown up 'cos they stupidly autopiloted to Rancer(yup-I did...). You gotta <3 the newbies-one day they might be your FC, your alliance leader-Hug your newbies, shower them in isk & help the poor buggers out!
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You've touched on another issue I think is important which is that most corps don't really have a goal, or if they do its so beyond their reach it'll never happen. In order to get the most out of Eve you have to be capable of finding your own fun, setting personal goals and working towards them. You'll find that sort of advice in most honest newbie guides. What people don't seem to have figured out yet is it applies to corporations too. CCP isn't going to lay out a linear progression route for your corp to follow you have to pick one yourself. Too many corporations are just containers for pilots all working towards their own separate personal goals never really interacting. A good corporation will be one full of people who's personal goals complement the corp goals without being stifled by them.
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Teaching and playing with the newbies I've adopted is are some of the things that keep me logging into this game. I love seeing them get so excited after they just got their first killmail, suicide ganked their first highsec pubbie, or are just plain happy to have a better understanding of how to do things in EVE.
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Teaching and playing with my adopted newbees are some of the few reasons I keep playing EVE. I love watching them get so excited that they found what they like to do in EVE. Whether it be suicide ganking miners, small gang stuff, isk-making activities, etc. I don't understand why being a newbie is such a stigma in this game, and its hilarious to watch ~elite~ people get horribly annihilated by newbees with no ~skill~. We've figured it out newbees are one of the reason the game is fun, going "lol no you don't have Xm SP you can't join you're worthless" is only hurting yourself and making yourself look like a shitlord.
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Coming from a newbie who just found a small group called AEGiS (More of a project) they bring anyone into wormholes and teach them how to play with a fleet. Even day-1 newbies. But the difference is that the newbies feel like we are NEEDED. In a game like this, if you want a new player to stick with you, you need to make them feel like they are needed. Whether or not it is true. It doesn't matter. If they feel like they are trailing 10 miles behind the rest of the corporation, not really contributing anything, they will simply get bored.TL;DR Make newbies feel needed and they will put more effort into learning and will feel more motivated. It is all about feeling needed.
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The recruitment ads I always looked at the most were ones saying "We really need new players!" rather than "Accepting new players" - The difference seems small, but to someone like me it makes a very big difference.
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This. So much. I registered my account in 2010, and played for a month. Came back two times more for a month only both times.The only thing I knew how to do was run level 2 security missions in a passive drake. And last night was the first time I even knew what a wormhole was because a group called AEGiS accepts newbies into C3 (i think, I still dont understand the difficulty rating) and with about 10 people in cheap ships (10m-30m each) run the fleet. No tengu's allowed, no expensive ships that can 1 shot everything. Pulling newbies into a situation like that, will make them love the game way more. This is coming from someone who, again, only did missions until last night, where I did a wormhole and ran a caracal fit the FC had me get, and basically directed "drone assist". It was simple, but compared to what I have been doing it was amazing. I got to chat with people in mumble and have a team environment. I only have about 5m skill points, but he does this with brand new players (after a few days of necessary skill training for core certs and stuff).Although the new T1 ship balance makes this quite a bit easier to do.Edit: Forgive me if I use bad terms, I really don't know the right phrases/etc.
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This is a problem that a lot of MMOs are facing and in my opinion they aren't dealing with it very well.In some of the larger games, it has been my observation that the prevailing strategy has been to dumb-down the mechanics of the game in order to make it more accessible to new players. This does nothing to address the underlying issue and in fact serves to debase the value of their product. In their minds, this is the only solution that allows them to maintain a balance of power where the developer has...well...all the power and the player is nothing more than a cow to be milked for cash.In reality, if developers want real long term solutions they will need to learn to embrace a culture of player-enfranchisement. This will allow them to maintain the integrity of their product by pulling players up to a higher level rather than trying to reduce mechanics to the lowest common denominator. But while developers can create a culture of inclusion, they cannot perform the practical expressions of it without player organizations (like GSF). To put it simply, if new players are the lifeblood of a game, then player organizations who include, educate, and enfranchise new players should be courted by developers as a vital component to their product's success.
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Honestly thinking about trying to go goons as a noob... ive done FW for a while but i cant learn or get the support i need even from a solid corp, which i tbqh should not be apart of knowing my abilities, or lack there of. I have basics, but its impossible to learn without getting feedback and its also hard to learn when you always get outnumbered, and are already outgeared. Noobs naturally arnt going to beat someone 1v1 who is more experienced and out gears them, let alone 5 or 6. Need somewhere i can get more physical support as well as some insight.Solo pvping as a noob is 100% demoralizing, and you sometimes feeling like you weight down a group when you're in a fleet
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Amen. Even before they can salvage, they can loot.
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Ah, but Andres is one of us LAWN Gnomes, and we've got an armour-based T1 cruiser fleet doctrine. ;)
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If one of them was me, I have 6.5 million skillpoints. However, I probably didn't do much useful other than not die. :-D
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As someone with 6.5 million skill points, I can't agree with this, McDarila. I can kill belt rats in either LAWN's (former) Pure Blind or current Branch space in my fast shield-tanked Hurricane on my own. I admit that I'm not very quick about it. The Branch Gurista battleships can take me ages to get down, but I don't take much damage usually in the process. That 6.5 million skill points includes level 5 skills in industry and mining and a mixture of armour and shield tanking—all those well-known damage-dealing skills.That's not to say I wouldn't benefit from being in a "training corp" but it's not because I can't manage belt rats most of the time. Anomaly ones, I agree, are different. I cannot solo those, mostly because the waves spawn faster than I can eradicate the battleships, especially if there's any jamming involved.I started being able to do Pure Blind belt rats on my own somewhere between 5 and 5.5 million skill points. I may have been able to do it earlier but I wasn't quite brave enough to try. I was filled with a real sense of accomplishment when I successfully took them down on my own in Pure Blind and then was able to replicate the feat many times after. It's not that long ago—just before the move to Branch.While I've sometimes temporarily borrowed a ship from my corporation for a few days, they haven't directly provided me with money or frigates. That's not because they wouldn't be willing but because I haven't asked. I haven't engaged in planetary interaction either. I'm sometimes quite poor, but I can stand on my own two feet without your condescension and assistance, thank you.Maybe I don't contribute much to the fight in DPS numbers or solo kills, but I am showing up for fleets, I did participate in the war effort, and I am trying to learn. I wonder where I would be and what I would be doing if I had joined your corporation instead? Would you want to deal with me? I suspect I wouldn't be living in Branch, getting abandoned in wormholes, going on roams, and trying to make a difference.
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6.5 mil sp means nothing. If all that is in stuff like, say Trade skills or the like, it's meaningless on how they can survive in an anom. Which for a sov holding alliance should not be a focus, I might add.
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a lot of people think that it that has to do with community or the intense nature of the game. But I believe it has to do a lot with the fact that people join the game and want to "win". after a couple weeks of play they realize they will never become equivalent skill point wise with any other pilot the continues to train their account. I know that skill points don't mean everything but in a land where MMO's your power is determined by your level many people get turned off by the fact that they will never be the highest level.
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Just to add an view.. When i was nab and started to play eve i tought it was cool game and i kinda liked it.. But then i found myself wondering in never ending space not undestanding basics while being in npc corp and i got bored. Someone adviced me to join eve university which i did. And they sort me out. They tought me basic game mechanics, they tought me social sides of game, they tought me pvp, they tought me pve and much more.. They tought me whatever i wanted to be...But after end of the day i guess its similar in jita. Only "sleepers" and nubs get scammed.. And with that im preferring to corp recruitments you talking about..
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It wasn't meant as an insult. The "mustache" part just made me curious :)
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I quit eve because of the paranoia crap. I was going easy training skill from the bottom up until one day I started training capitals. Once I trained all the skills to fly and properly equip the nyx I left game.One of the things that annoyed the shit out of me was that I could never get into a decent Null sec corp. It was the same shit over and over again. OMG you have a lot of skill points YOU MUST BE A SPY!!!...No man I'm just looking to have some fun with the current corp. Granted if you bore the shit out of me I'm going to leave join another corp and yeah I'll probably end up fighting someone you're allies with. (DERP)That's the thing after that you automatically not seen as just a player looking to have fun. You're a traitor, a spy. Which is really fucking retarded.The last thing was the killboard. Everyone is so fucking focused on your kills. Perfect example (Razor Alliance) It actually takes away from the game. If you don't have a decent killboard, everyone looks at you like you're retarded. They don't see it as: "Oh I have no fucking idea what I'm doing so I'm going to try to learn by trial and error". They see it as "wow that guy can't fly for shit, he must be retarded."I left man and those are the reasons why. To some people eve isn't just a game its their life. Pretty fuckin dumb if you ask me.

New players are the lifeblood of any massively multiplayer online game. A constant supply of bright-eyed recruits is required to replace the inevitable bittervets, burnouts, and "people with better things to do." This is particularly true in a  sandbox game like EVE, where burnout (when it comes) is fierce, and players derive most of their fun from interactions with other players, be it through fights, trades, tears, or pointless Jabber vomit.

Another fact of note: just as alliances and coalitions can suffer failure cascades, MMOs often go under in the same way. 

When the number of players drops below a critical threshold - whether through developer error or simple competition - player interaction numbers fall, and the MMO stops feeling like a MMO. What it feels like is an expensive single player game with more frustrating mechanics. Various tricks (such as server consolidation) can be used to maintain player numbers, but the game will ultimately go into a death spiral that few recover from.

Most end up either shutting down completely or chugging along on life support, their servers as empty as my wallet. This happens to plenty of MMOs: the developer fails to realize that their most valuable asset is not their game mechanics, or even their IP, but rather their player community.

EVE has always had issues with accessibility. It has been justifiably described as being one of the least intuitive, least user-friendly, and least transparent MMOs ever released. Those that manage to scale the "learning cliff" view it as a badge of pride. "We hardened the fuck up and survived." EVE's dismal new player retention rate is often attributed to this obtuseness. To some extent, this is still true. In 2012, a new player has many options available to him, perhaps too many. There are plenty of guides and organizations out there devoted to shepherding newbies through the generally accepted "hoops" of the game. Unfortunately, it's rather more difficult for such a player to learn to navigate the social straits of EVE - and not play as a miner,  solo missioner, or member of the other "trap" professions that tend to lead to boredom, burnout, and unsubscription.

This picture is mandatory in any discussion about EVE and accessibility.

Starting this week, I am running a survey designed to identify the reasons new players quit (or have come close to quitting) EVE. It's targeted at members of my corp, EVE University, as it is arguably the largest single collection of new players. Before I finish data collection and publishing, though, I would like to share some thoughts and anecdotes about the way newbies are treated in EVE culture, as it is, in my opinion, a great part of the reason for EVE's poor trial retention rate, and a contributor to anemic or downright negative growth.

(Graph courtesy of Jester. If you don’t read his blog, you should.)

I’ll date myself a little here; while waiting for Battlecruisers V to finish, I spent the last two weeks in Arnon helping newbies with the Sisters of Eve Epic Arc. Retribution has brought in a veritable flood of newbies and 14 day trials, and the SoE arc was the continuation of the tutorials. In the course of those two weeks, I killed Dagan about 40 times. Newbies ranged from people who knew what they were doing but lacked the SP to break Dagan’s tank, to those who didn’t understand game mechanics in the slightest (shooting blasters from 30km), to those that had ideas at least seemed "intuitive" (one guy mounted a dual 180mm AC on his Thrasher, as he was told “to fit the biggest guns you can”). There's nothing wrong with all this, mind you - it's to be expected of a newbie navigating his way through the unintuitive world of New Eden. Eventually they will discover the error of their ways, or be enlightened by a more experienced player.

What concerned me was the corporations these players were in. Half were still in the NPC starter corps, which is not great, but more worrying were the newbies who were pulled into corps advertising in the Recruitment channel. One specific newbie stands as a case in point, but there are thousands like him. He was recruited into a self-advertised “lowsec pirate corp" as an eager young space-swashbuckler. This newbie had joined up four days previously, and was told by corpmates to complete the tutorial and SoE arc. He was then left to his own devices.

The poor guy had trudged through the entire arc so far in a mixed gun, dual tanked, salvager (but no tractor) Cormorant. He had lost ships already in Burning down the Hive, and was struggling against Kristan Parthus (an NPC in a neuting battlecruiser). After a brief talk with yours truly, he was in a neutron blaster, shield tanked cormorant, and finished the arc soon after. What was missing? His “corp” recruited him as a newbie, then left him in the galaxy with no advice, no isk to buy ships and skillbooks with, and no guidance from veterans.

Barring my intervention, would this newbie have kept on and forged his own path in EVE? Maybe - but I'd bet a PLEX that he would eventually become frustrated with this seemingly impenetrable mess of a game and leave for World of Tanks, or Planetside 2, or Star Citizen when it releases. This was all from simple neglect - what of other players who actively seek out newbies and grief them for tears? There are people who bait newbies right off the Arnon undock (with sensor boosted Thrashers waiting behind the station). There are people scanning down newbies running missions, then killing the mission rat and holding the required drop ransom. There are people filling the starter station production lines with long term junk orders so the newbies are unable to finish the industry tutorial without buying from grossly priced orders. (I'm looking at you, 750,000 isk civilian afterburner.) One can defend this as emergent gameplay, sure, but is this particular brand of emergence ultimately good for EVE?

Now take what was written above, and contrast it with this.

(2:01:50 PM) directorbot: Hello my fellow goons and goonettes. Rare is my opportunity to make a broadcast about something auth related but alas here we are. We pride ourselves on a fair amount of accuracy when weeding out the pubbing j4g ****lords and the scammed masses that you people fleece dry of isk. Today however, this day, we have failed and a wee little newbee was accidentally booted from our fine establishment due to a clerical error by a shrimp-loving member of the auth team. As it is the holiday season, this newbee should not have to suffer the mistakes of the administration so I am calling on all of you to shower this little newbee with isk as penance for our sins.

The little newbee is [REDACTED] - go forth and make it rain on his wallet

*** This was a broadcast from [REDACTED] to all-all at 2012-12-14 19:02:21.772999 EVE, replies are not monitored ***

Ever wonder how Goons and Test manage to vat-grow an endless supply of warm bodies for their blobs? Well. Now you know.

E-uni makes do with of donations and a 0.1% tax rate; small corps have neither the time or inclination to train up newbies to the point where they can truly begin enjoying Eve. The ones with resources, that is, large nullsec blocs (outside of Dreddit and Goonwaffe), have stringent recruiting standards and justified paranoia of all recruits for fear of spies.

(Bad things happen to alliances who aren’t paranoid enough of spies. Image courtesy of Nerfnow.com)

We can’t rely on CCP to do anything meaningful to better prepare players for Everyone Vs. Everyone. This is a problem that has existed since the inception of the game. Iceland has attempted to address it mechanically. Some things have changed - the new tutorials, the rebalanced ships, etc - and that's great. Yet the problem remains. It's the community, stupid.

The cry goes out from players, journalists, and devs alike: EVE needs “new blood” to survive. How do we, the players of this game, those who have HTFU’d, actually treat the new blood? For many, certainly not as potential allies or even opponents - more like scum, or isk piñatas, or easy targets to green up their killboards. So, reader, I have a question for you. What can we do to make New Eden a more attractive place for newbies than Azeroth or Auraxis? 

Perpetually broke pilot of Goonswarm. Will shill for isk.