Why Do We Attack People Who Don't Want to Fight?

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lol james 315 could not take nul sec where he had to fight back and would lose so he moved to high sec where he can pick on others he is a worthless person in the game just as bad if not worrce than the isk scamers
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Article is spot on. The argument comes down to what high sec is really supposed to be. It's supposed to be LESS risk, not NO risk. Instead of bitching about getting killed get better at the game like the rest of us did. gf
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life is not fair why should a game that is sold on the basis of fucking ppl over be any fairer if anything it should be more dangerous
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Where are these mythical low sec miners the carebears are always telling us to go hunt? The reality is that in low sec you *might* get lucky enough to catch a FW pilot who isn't triple warp stabbed or doesn't warp away the moment you show up on scan, but in most cases the only other people you'll ever fight are other pirates. The great majority of Eve players seem to spend all their time sitting in hi sec hiding behind game mechanics that prevent them from having to interact with other players, and it sucks. It is very easy to avoid fights in low sec if they put in a minimum of work (looking at local and clicking d scan), there's no reason for CONCORD other than sheer laziness
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farms and fields eve needs it.
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99% of Eve consists of fighting people who don't want to fight. The exception are ultra-gay arranged ~honorbrawls~.Whether this non-consensual blapping of spacecraft occurs in systems with a security status above 0.4 or not is somewhat irrelevant. It's all the same game.
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Farmers have always been forced to pay the local warlord taxes, or else. This is still the case today. EvE allows players to make themselves the tax authority.
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Remove Highsec.Make CONCORD fight-able, and set limits to what shows up to protect players.
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Heres the thing though.These griefers can shut down an entire group of indy players through a war dec, and the indy players have no way to fight back.My corp has been locked down and camped in for 2 months now by griefers because we dont have the ability to fight them off
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I would likem to thanks Jame315 form keeping under 3pages. Not to bad of a read.
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Announcing "cold, harsh logic can't be denied" is laughable try of reasoning with utterly weak arguments indeed. On good question "Why ..." given very poor logically answer. Good one much easier to give with two simple and short lines: a) because if you attack smb who can/want fight your killboard (actual God of these "hisec risk-creators") will look poor; b) because "you can" (tears, greif and so on). And too big - in three pages long - cloud of inconsistent arguments with pseudo-logic rhetoric can not cover this even with cosmic size charisma of James_315.
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Use some of that wealth you and your "indy" corp made the rest of the time to either (a) buy T1 ships to fight back or (b) hire someone else to fight for you. You don't have the ability to fight back because you never bothered to even try to get it. That's your problem.
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You make valid arguments James, but at the end of the day I believe it's going to come down to the issue where you are forcing people to play a game that they don't want to. Some people are happy just running L4s all day. If you disrupt that they're not going to reship and come after you as you hinted at, they're going to unsub and go back to WoW and their PvE server.While I know many of you say good!; Fuck em! Carebears suck blarghh sperg sperg.. The accountants over at CCP have a totally different point of view. The game has seen an influx of new players that have played the safe MMOs in the past and aren't used to losing their hard earned shit. Whether we like it or not, they are apart of the community now and if their voice is louder than the handful of players that enjoy high sec piracy outside of suicide ganking then that squeaky wheel is going to get greased.
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But what do they gain by doing so, nothing..
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They gain the ability to undock and be an indy corp once the war is over. Clearly they're lamenting the loss of being able to do that, so it must have SOME importance to them.
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And how do you define, LESS risk?
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I gues he can really talk about, but doesn't has the balls to go to the CSM, it is just smoke with nothing behind it....
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Well, but they could also wait till the war is over it doesn't matter if they kill the enemies you cannot do mining if you have a wardec
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The strong do as the can, and the weak suffer what they must.
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You could throw frigates at them and try to kill something worth more than all of your ships combined while exploding gloriously, you may just enjoy it.There are also other ways to fight, Eve goes beyond spaceships and lasers, use the social (in-game~) aspect as well, spies and whatever else you can come up with.
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If you kill the enemies (and thus show yourself as willing to fight back and not just be a series of easy ganks), you make yourself very unattractive for future wardecs from that type of corp. Plus, and this is a craaaazy longshot, but they may actually ENJOY fighting in the end! Who knows, funny things happen when you step outside your hugbox and try a thing.
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I have still yet to see a reasonable argument as to why people think they should be totally safe.
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Concord.
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Indestructible stations and NPC protection that scales based on system security rating. That's significantly less risk than areas of space that do not have these things, and yet it still leaves some risk. Sounds familiar, hey?
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By removing wardecs you're forcing anyone who enjoys using them to "play a game that they don't want to". See why that argument is so fucking stupid?
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Well, but if you don't undock they will get bored and you will also be an really unatractive target and as we all know EVE players are ridiculously good at minimizing risk. But if they want to try it they could also join RvB .)
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Fuck Jamesunderscore315.
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I agree with the idea that Highsec SHOULD NOT be risk free, and it's not, i'm a new player on eve, and I saw a number of articles and killmails about big expensive freighter kills or even some very expensive orca kills.And that's good, that's why makes the game interested and it's with no doubt the reason why the economy in EVE is the way that it is.And I do not want to see the wardec system removed like some would want it, the thing is it needs to be reworked.The thing that I do not like about the way that other corporation can just go about and wardec anybody on highsec, is basicaly because that shuts down newbies that are trying to see what type of career they wanna focused really hard.On my second week playing the game, the corporation that I was in got wardec, now we did not flinch, our CEO imediately sent and evemail to everybody giving tips and details about how the war would go, we have a few experience players on our corp, but most of us were very low skilled players, who barely got out of the 900k SP.Can you imagine for a noob like that what it is to basically have to switch all of your focus just so you can "help" in the fight.Needless to say the war didn't went so well for us, because when we tried to fight a high skilled player with t3 ships and and with good skills to fly it, but he also had a friend outside his corp to remote rep him.. GG.After that week we lost 5 players, 2 left corp and i think are still in NPC corps right now, and 3 just left the game and we never saw them again. Those were people that came because of the risk of the game, left when they were bullied by a experienced player.Two weeks after that we got another wardec, and because of how frustrating the first war was and how boring it was to sit on the station since we could not fight it was useless, a number of people just droped corp and a few others decided to take a break.. (who also haven't come back since then). However I do not want to see the wardec system removed because of the reason that you mentioned, it would be almost risk free, since suicide ganking it's not always profitable (but it can be)The thing that I would do to at least try to balance the wardec system, and make harder for the attacker to find his targets was to remove or nerf the locator agent. (but i'm a noob and don't know if this would cause problems with other parts of the game, so it would be probably a bad idea)
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Well then it's down to 2 choices: undock and do a thing, or don't undock and don't do a thing. If they pick the latter then whatever, good for them. The whole "WE GOT WARDECCED AND LITERALLY CANNOT DO ANYTHING ABLOO BLOO" garbage needs to go, though. There's options, they just don't feel like using any of them.
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I don't say they can't do anything but do you propose they should go battlebadger?
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CONCORD does not provide defense. It provides consequences.
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Why should there be an 'no thanks, not for me' option for pvp in Eve?
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There is the need to replave wardecs or change them in the way to let the defender really fight back.
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Nah, T1 frigates and/or T1 cruisers should do. You know, the two ship classes that got buffed to hell and are all pretty awesome nowadays?
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They still can be sucide ganked and there is the need for some replacement of wardecds
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They already can "fight back" and they aren't interested. The only way to make them want to do that is to make their actual assets truly "at risk". I have a feeling that they're going to to be even less behind that idea.
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Dude probably gets more hate mail and death threats than The Mittani and you expect him to give those people his real name?Also calling someone a wuss over the internet, well done~
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Isn't it in high sec without wardecs that there is some risk because sucide ganking, however I think there must be a rebalancing of sec.
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I know but a high-sec war is tedious if you are not prepared and have no locator agent and so on. Sadly you can also just drop corp...
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Does the end result of this "rebalance" turn into poor widdle miners being 100% immune from anyone but themselves if they so choose?
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Drop corp, which will definitely happen when they only piece of advice to your members is "stay docked up until the bad people go away :(:(:(:("
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damn another 3 page splurge after the 6 page one the other day, 9 pages of ego filled psychotic self justification rants that go in circles, yey!
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The only thing worse than James's long winded rhetoric is the kind of pseudo intellectual illiteracy you just posted in your whine comment.
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The attention in this debate always seems to be on the risk side. Understandable. Instead, perhaps the high sec reward should be reduced and the rewards associated with low and null 'pve' play should be more attractive. The 'artificial' dynamic is not about wardecs and risk, it seems to me, but rather about the infinite carrying capacity of high sec. Should that change and the supply chain involved in having access to ships also become compromised for PvP, relationships might alter.
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Staying docked is tedious. Undocking and doing nothing but mining is tedious. Maybe spend some of that time putting together a stash of throwaway T1 frigates and T1 destroyers.
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I WANT to like this guy because some of the things he says i agree with (highsec should never be safe), but i cant help but think he's some 15 year old little gimp, really this whole highsec war dec thing just reminds me of a kid with a magnifying glass burning ants, highsec pvp is for fail people that are risk averse and scared to lose ships, its can flippers and neutral logi or boost alts and in all honesty in my opinion its pathetic.The reason the rest of the pvp'ers in eve look down there nose at these people is that they are the bottom of the rung in terms of pvp, i've had people with 5k of kills in highsec join my lowsec pvp corp and be unable to fly a ship proper, they all end up going back to highsec because it is filled with cheap easy kills and it makes them feel superior, like ol' jimmy's tale of killing a couple of mining ships and a orca, you might as well of been smartbombing in a noob system for all the skill it takes.
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no you dont, these are meant to be pvpers, surely the people that fight back are exactly what they want?
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They aren't "meant" to be anything but a corp that wardecced another corp. Applying whatever dumb labels you want isn't going to do anything but make you look like an idiot.
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The real problem with non consensual high sec wars is trying to force people to decide between being immune to wars (npc corp/ single player corp) and being social (corp with real people).As long as there are no structures (pos) involved the easiest answer to a wardec is always drop corp or play on an alt. As long as that is the case wardecs make absolutely no sense.So the real choice is between removing wardecs not targeted at structures or making wardecs stick to players and remove npc corps.Because in my opinino the real problem are people deccing others on their pvp chars/ corps and making their isk with alts not affected by the war. So targetting the isk making ability of others while keeping theirs untouched.So just make it consistent no safety for anybody and meaningful non avoidable wardecs or no wardecs at all.
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Damn it James, why are you not running for CSM!?
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"The same principle applies to everything else in this game. If you want to mine ice, and if you have no interest in defending yourself, then you should team up with some people who like to protect miners."So what exactly are these other players in HI SEC going to do to protect you when you are ice mining? There's nuthing they can do but sit around doing nuthing then after a few days when a gank is about to happen they sit around & can't do nuthing else they get Concorded
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If you fitted tank it would provide defense.
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"Where are these mythical low sec miners ..."Booo hoooo it sucks there are not any EZ lo sec miners to kill :'(Sooo I have to take my 'leet PvP skills to HI SEC to kill those that can't shoot back to show off my epeen
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counter-point: fuck everything not jamesunderscore315
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>we're the only people standing between this game and WoW! WE ARE THE SAVIORS OF EVE! YOU DON'T KNOW WHAT YOU WANT!i wonder why people say he has a messiah complex
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A lot of back and forth, but what exactly is the gain for eve when you force 20 guys to play another game for a week ? (trying to mine under a wardec might be fun for unemployed fellows, but if your free time is limited and you want to make the best of it, wardec in eve means no eve.)And, even more important, what exactly will be the gain for eve in the future, when eve wont be the only spaceship mmo anymore ?
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Your jimmies sound rustled
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This is basically what Lames 315 is:proposing having more ways to beat up on 3 week old noobs in t1 frigs with 6 year old toons in t3s.... 'leet PvP at its finest
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how about special pos that can be ancored while under wardec that spawns npc-mercs in that system that work like concord? so if you want to wardecc people that dont want to shoot back, you have to kill their structure when it comes out of reinforced first, but with the risk of finding their friends defending it.
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This still doesn't answer the problem that carebears who get wardecced receive no reward for fighting back, their best strategy being to log off for the week. Fighting for them draws more unwanted attention. Pick on all the highsec carebears you want. Its CCP who fucked up when they created a system where the optimal gameplay is not to play.
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I see what you mean now, thank you for further clarification.
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Perhaps the reason miners do not form groups to defend their industry is because their industry is already the lowest paying position in eve. With full Orca boosts, a high sec miner will only be making somewhere on the magnitude of 8mil isk an hour. How many people would they need to hire them to defend with? 4 miners and 4 combat ships a safe bet? Now name me a combat pilot willing to sit in a belt defending minors for 4 mil isk an hour.
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If they nerf or eliminate war decs they need to nerf high sec income big time. REALLY big. Like the best refine rates in high sec should net you 75-80% returns. Production and invention should be taxed the same. Get rid of high sec POSes altogether. If these carebears want to grind away in high sec in saftey, fine. But pay for those overpowered CONCORD ships that protect you. You want more profit? Move to low or null. If they quit then fine. We don't need them anyway. You can't have everything handed to you on a silver platter. What happened to HTFU? It's dying.
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After I read this article I get feeling that I waste 10 min of my life, and I will waste few more to wrote comment so others can evade this three pages of subjective narrow vision of one beautiful game with so much possibility.Core of EVE is not only kill or be killed it is more then that, I like PVP, have more kills then you and better stats, but I respect peoples who don't wont to fight. When I see armed ship I undock, I dont run for hulers, miners and ... there is no satisfaction for me. So I see direction of your inexperienced writing, without them what I will have form you? You are not real PVPer, so where you will get your new lol t1 hull after I meet you? You are not of use to me without your armed ship, so then after I lose that hardworking peoples I will lose lol self-named PVPer like you and what is benefit for EVE space from that? Live and let them to live some EVE magic.
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Yes, because it's easier, that's the entire point. It's a way of generating possible income and kills without much effort. Whether you agree with the morality or not, that's the presice reason.
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He said nothing like that. The simplest way to form the argument is this:"This is Eve. You are absolutely free to mine AFK in an untanked ship, and I am absolutely free to come and blow it up"
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For true mercs, the target is irrelevant, if the price is right. If they have qualms about going after a target they aren't mercs.
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"The accountants over at CCP have a totally different point of view"a) CCP developers have said in interviews that they are not money driven. They are game driven. The subscriptions are a problem for the marketing department.b) Since high sec ganking is at an all time low and since wardecs only last a week by default, people who are addicted to making lots of isk will not easily quit the game and subs will not drop as quickly as people with your argument like to think.c) Many people subscribe when they hear of a $16,000 titan going boom, and at every marketing push when an expansion comes out. Pew pew doesn't create only a loss of subs.
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Until they bring more catalysts and overheat.
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A rorq will put you back 3 Billion. Also factor in costs of fuel. The rorqual uses heavy water in it's industrial core to get its improved bonuses. Unless you are mining ice, you're going to have to import it and it starts to add up with 5 minute cycles.
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Another load of the usual crap from 315. Every post he makes on here all boils down to 'join the NO and shoot carebears!' Challenge to 315 - write something that isn't to the usual formula of crap behind different titles.
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Maybe wardecs need to be iterated on. Maybe. But there is one thing this admittedly rambling and poorly-focused article mentioned that I find disturbing: ban wardecs, and all you have is awoxing and suicide ganks. Eve is supposed to be a cold, dark universe, with PvP that harkens back to older MMOs, where death meant something. Activities that were once considered par for the course are now called "griefing" by the current playerbase. But whatever gets more people to sub I guess. Just remember, you can't please everyone at once.
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Another factor that remains unexplored is CONCORD. If a single ship sees a suicide ganker coming at it, even knowing it's there, it cannot shoot first. Its options are either lose the ship to the aggressor, or lose the ship to CONCORD.
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I would have added "Run" on here, but larger, slower ships don't always have that option.
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This is of course the crux of the issue. James floats this idea as a completely red herring. No player in their right mind who likes to shoot things would sit around hi sec "protecting" miners.From gankers, that's obvious, because it's impossible. No matter how non-afk you are, only the most exceedingly inpetly executed gank can be observed unfolding and potentially avoided.From wardeccers, also obvious, because 99% of them will dock up and switch to their 0.0 mains at the first sign of credible opposition, denying the defenders the satisfaction of explosions, hence erasing the desire to defend miners in the first place.
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Hilmars response - though what he said is far from a unique perspective - is utterly stupid if you ask me. The "If you want PVP go to low/null!" crap is ridiculous if you think about it. To make a statement like that is to say you want a risk free themepark - on the surface it may appear to be about fairness and consent, but it's not is it? It's about making a risk free themepark, because lets face facts, a miner, or ratter, or industrialist in low/null is exactly as weak and helpless as one in highsec - a mining barge is a mining barge, a PVE ship is a PVE ship - and none of these people 'consent' to the ganks they receive, but Hilmar and co. are fine with these people getting brutalised and exploded despite having as little chance or interest in PVP as the highseccers.
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For a start, I disagree with the idea that they have no "means to fight back" - just because their skills aren't geared towards pvp and they don't have the experience doesn't mean they can't make a go of it. That's a stupid defeatist attitude, and other players with just as little experience or sp prove it wrong every day.Secondly, they explicitly chose to be in that position. They chose to excel at something else - industry, missioning, whatever - so they have to deal with the consequences. They chose to put themselves in a position that makes them weak when it comes to pvp. They need to accept that, rather than crying that war decs should be removed from highsec so they can excel at their goals without having to suffer any of the disadvantages.Look at it from the other side: You don't see PVPers crying that the industry mechanics should be removed because their skills and experience are lacking so they can't compete with the serious career miners and manufacturers in EVE.
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This is a badly written article. Highsec exists so that people can make isk to PVP. You can't make isk if you're constantly being attacked or under constant threat of attack. Ganking Highsec miners is merely an effort to destroy the logistical and morale of enemy players or corps who may be hiding in neutral corps. Newbies or carebears need highsec because there simply no other way to make money that to put yourself into a ship that can stand a chance in pvp combat. Simply put, James wants to kill carebears before they can become dangerous, or able to defend themselves.
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The purpose of fighting is to win. Get over it.
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Oops-- meant to reply to the previous person.
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Believe me, I love pvp. But I think your looking at pvpers being the minority (which they're really not as a good chunk of those carebears are pvper's alts) as the glass half empty. I prefer to look at it half full. If we're the minority then we truly are the badasses on the playground! :) But you're not a badass anyways. Your a bully. Badasses fight everyone and shed no tears. Your the bully that wants to pick on the weak ones and cry when he doesn't get his way. You might have once been a badass. But we regret to inform you that you are no longer welcome in our clubhouse. Badasses only. :POn a more serious note, there is one key concept that James and others like him seem to forget, to realize. Advocate for your game play style all you want, but like you even acknowledge, you are the minority. And if making high sec safer by removing war decs brings more players and thus more revenue into the game....then guess what. Plain and simple, you're shit out of luck. CCP is a game company who makes games to make money, like any other company out there. If that's not obvious, then i simply remind you of Monoclegate. We may have reigned them in with the Jita riot but their objective is still to expand their company and profits for which you cannot blame them!
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Here's the problem with the remove highsec argument. You will get two weeks of entertainment. Afterwards, all those carebears will quit playing instead of lining up to get destroyed over and over, since you can't actually force people to play a videogame. Realistically you have to think about what the rational reaction of these carebears will be if they're put in a no-highsec Eve. They won't suddenly try to defend themselves with horribly fit battleships. Instead the most likely thing is that they'll just go quit the game and play something else.Most of the people who want to PvP are in lowsec, 0.0 or wormholes.
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First miners aren't defenseless. I recently solo decced a corp that have successfully fought back. They laid a trap for me that resulted in me losing a ship (and had I been flying anything decent I could have suffered a big loss). Good on them, they are playing EVE not ISK Progressquest.Second - if miners and carebears are immune to PVP, PVPers need to be immune to their interventions into the marketplace. Carebears drive up PLEX prices, cause mineral prices to plummet and engage in all sorts of market PVP. When the New Order attacks one, we aren't shooting first, we're shooting back.
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This gank isn't a fight its a sucker punch with a 2 by 4 to the back of the head.... or what Gavin Goblin would call 'leet PvP
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really? Market pvp? are they effecting the price of all those ganking dessies you get for free? my heart bleeds for you. also market manipulators are coalitions like OTEC with Monopolies on moons and other rare assets. one guy in a retriever mining ice isn't appreciatively hurting your ability to acquire your FREE ganking ship. One other thing if we are talking about risk free enviroments please ask your glorious dbag how he intends to fight market trading for tons of money and no risk? gank Jita 4-4? toolbags.
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If they'd learn how to fight back it wouldn't be an issue. Instead they just want to afk mine all day and then get all uppity when someone kills them.
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Well, that's one way to look at it all. Another point to add, is that even though it's not null sec where corps/alliances can gain sov, and even though the resources are less lucrative (generally) there are still actual territoral disputes for people in high sec, as well as good old fashioned grudge matches that need to be resolved...it's not really all just about "griefers" looking to rack up easy kills on expensive targets. (which is fine too)Even though I have found myself on the not-so-winning side of high sec PVP a few times, I think high sec would become nothing more than a giant bot-farm without wardecs, gankers, and "frigate 1v1"-ers allowed to do their thing...so even though I spend a lot of time in high sec trying to grind (somewhat) risk free isk, I don't think the risk should ever be removed- I probably would have gotten tired of EVE a long time ago if high sec was entirely free of risk.
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Then maybe you should mine with a short-range dscan going and be aligned. When they pop up on the dscan you warp off and live.
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Yeah because the range of a mining laser is what again? You'll be out of range of the rocks in a matter of minutes. Keep trying to come up with excuses though.
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Have you ever heard of soft-aligning?
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It's one thing to be constrained by circumstance, quite another to go off spouting about of high-sec "pvp" is in any remote way shape or form superior to low null or WH PvP.
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I think everyone is looking at the issue at hand all wrong. If people are finding highsec more attractive because it's more profitable to PvP, why not make PvP in lowsec/nullsec more profitable?
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It didn't hold every time i tried it. Every time the nose dropped when speed fell. Besides I prefer tacticals 200 km in all directions. I mine in null, knowing full well what I'm walking into.
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Yeah you have to align to something along the solar plane for it to work well. Still I don't see how fitting tank and do a minimal amount of dscanning wouldnt save you from most if not all suicide ganks.
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Even aligned, if not at speed exhumers aren't fast out of the gate.
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1) http://eve-kill.net/?a=pilot_d...Why does James continually swap to new corps every couple days or so? Is he trying to avoid being war-decced? Or just trying to get around the war-dec mechanics in manners similar to the war targets?LOFUCKINGL.2) J'315's easy line that carebears should just hire other eve players to protect them while they mine makes one wonder if he even plays the game or is a total noob. EVE is a game that abounds with awoxers and spais and even the most mature and sophisticated alliances suffer the wrath of wolves-in-blue-clothing. For newer players to have to do the same seems a bit counter to their chance at enjoying and growing in New Eden.3) CCP should change "war-decs" into "hunting licenses", specifying which corp you want to hunt. This would give you the kill-rights on the carebears in that corp in high-sec, but at an additional tag cost for each pinata you pop, sort of like a Bounty in reverse. Activating a hunting tag on a war-target would also make your own kill rights available to everyone else in Eve, thus enabling at least some risk on the hunter's part.
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One Response: hehe
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It's convenient to min/max this argument, painting a picture where highsec PvPers only shoot defenseless players and everyone else outside of highsec are noble and fierce warriors in battle. It's a simple and romantic stereotype to latch on to, but as banal and shallow as "good vs. evil" and stories which start out with "It was a dark and stormy night..."James is right about the money aspect - It's about the ISK. This is a prime motivator for me, personally, in why I choose to stay in high- or low-sec even after putting several chars in 0.0 alliances and living life "out in nullsec" as many wardec detractors demand. It is indeed where the money is. Yes, it's preying upon the stupid and perhaps the weak-minded, but I don't play this game to make distinctions or to prove anything to other people.The simple thing is - would I rather shoot a bunch of cheap Drakes in some 0.0 fleet fight where I'll probably not see ISK from any of the loot since I'd need to keep moving with the fleet, or do I hunt Marauders, Carriers and JFs outside of 0.0 where one good drop could PLEX my accounts for a month? My wallet (and my possession of certain assets) says I've probably made the right decision in that regard.
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You mean I could get paid to kill testies? Sign me up.
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Another difference between the the "PVPer" that shoots "defenless miners" (that statment in EVE makes me cringe, it is your choice to be "defenless") is that the miner will open a petition and whine to CCP, while the PVPer will usually use it in the argument against nerfing highsec (like James 315). Generalizations but mostly true. The core issue is simple, the real isk should be in low sec and null sec (no argument here risk vs reward basic logic) and all of this will sort itself out, but in the meantime we can't let EVE turn into a themepark.
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The major point should be that EVE in and of itself, is BUILT around the concept of making other people's stuff go boom. Creating scenarios where a player must never experience this is anathema to EVE Online creed. People become essentially immune to other player interactions, and this ruins the entire idea of "the Sandbox."Its not the argument of the fights themselves. This is not the crux. It is that people will NEVER be required to experience anything past their "carebear" state. In a game of infinite player interaction, and scaling Player-to-Player activities, this is literally the opposite of what should exist therein.If you are enticed by the idea of your precious things never going boom, and forever farming NPC status icons of any form, then in all honesty, this is not the glorious image of EVE that has been advertised by both CCP and its player-base.If you want to "carebear" your way through existence, I don't care. That's quite fine. I can't tell you how to play a game (though I'll still think terribly **** of you). However, this is EVE Online. If we want EVE to remain anywhere near true to what it's glorious image has been for years, then one needs to reconsider the current direction it is headed.Making PvP zones (Low and Null) while creating an essentially-risk-free zone (High), will turn EVE into Spaceship-WoW.Once that happens, I'll personally see the executive team burned at the stake.
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Hunting Battleships and Carriers and Jump Freighters is a world away from whinging about CCP having made it slightly harder to gank miners with catalysts. I don't really have a problem with the status quo as far as highsec is concerned. But James here seems to have something of a zealous hatred all things "carebear" which is frankly rather at odds with the financial argument he's trying to make here. The point of my original comment was to point out the cognitive disconnect between James's rhetoric and his argument for his actions. If he's farming in highsec for the same reason as everyone else, easy money, then what is with all the religious furor? And why is he targeting primarily miners when, as you point out, there are much more lucrative targets around?
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How? Can you think of a way to do this which won't break the sandbox or get gamed to oblivion. CCP tried this with the first version of Inferno FW and the Goons quickly showed them the error of their ways.
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The "real" ISK *is* out in lowsec and nullsec. It's just that the current game mechanics have made it Alliance level ISK not player level ISK. I'm not arguing that PvP should be banned from highsec, or made purely consensual or anything of the sort. Indeed, I think the highsec rules of engagement are not so terrible as they are now. I do think that nerfing highsec to oblivion, which James has also asked for, is probably a really bad idea for the EvE economy. Thankfully, unless CCP decides to hire James_315 to replace Unifex, I don't think this is going to happen.
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Nicely said +1
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I personally hate when someone wardecs my alt Indy corp ... But, I take some measures like temporarily moving freighter guy into NPc corp, being on constant alert with my mining guys (thou I'm used to it as I frequently mine in low sec). Sometimes I place a Harby at spot. I understand it won't help me against a gang, but it many cases attackers try to do it solo and in this case they think twice. I believe in Sandbox Eve, and thou I've never wardecced anyone, and will hardly ever do (it's not mine, I love 0_0s), but taking it out of the game would be IMHO a very irrational step.
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I'm partially a high-sec carebear and if they made high-sec any more risk free it would completely ruin the game. It frightens me to hear some of the carebears who really want a risk free place in space. Do not ruin the game!Don't fly too safe!
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At no point did i assume that my viewpoint is the only one out there, and i don't actually know what you've read that imply's that, maybe actually respond to what i write rather then write some random shit, as is obvious i gave my opinion on this article and the state of highsec pvp nothing more.
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I think the trick here is to look beyond the author's name. A lot of people here are looking at the finger, and not the moon it's pointing at.
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One thing I find incredibly funny about this argument is how in EVE many are of the position where you "choose" to be defenseless, while in real life, they would look down on a man that beats a woman. But isn't she just choosing to be defenseless as well?
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Its anything but, ofc i love the way ninja looters would bend and break the norm to get kills that's good (although from what i read getting harder and harder to do), but highsec wars are a majority of 2 man corps dec'ing 1000 man alliances and just picking off haulers, or dec'ing mining corps and fucking them over, in all honesty its pathetic in my eye's.I have no idea what the answer to all this is, whether war's should be scrapped all together seems wrong to me, but even after ccp looking wardec's its obvious its a broken part of the game, but untill something else can step in then it will stay the same, and prolly for another 5 years before its looked at againWhat really makes me laugh is how faggots like ol' jimmy can run around ganking people and claim its good and yet when his corps get war dec'd he closes them down and restarts another to shed the dec, that right there is the carebear mentality hiding behind flawed game machanics, on the same par as dec shield of old or eve uni bumping the cost of war dec's, all of which ol' jimmy was no doubt complaining about when it was happening.
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Did you even read my response? I didn't care specifically what was changed, I was just terrified of losing player conflict, in any form.War decs are a critical form of player conflict, in an area starved for it. They themselves are not what is the issue here, what IS the issue is the consistent removal and degradation of player conflict sources in high security space.This is my argument, not that they are "ruining my play style," but that they are disabling the very parts of their game that make it so great.Your blind and slanderous remarks are more poignant of your bigoted stand point.
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That is not why highsec exists at all, sorry you've completely misunderstood EVE Online. Also, the "cant make isk if you're open to attack" line is laugh out loud ridiculous. How do people who live entirely in low, null and wormholes make a living then, mate?I'm sorry if you've got a rather carebear skewed impression of EVE Online, but thats just not how it is
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Why do you mine? Because its easier to make isk with than nullsec ratting?Grow some balls and attack a PVE source with some bite.
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there really is no finer reason than money.if high-sec weren't profitable, if you couldn't mine afk while soing something else elsewhere, if you couldn't hecta-box makinaws making a ton of isk under the cloak of CONCORD protection... well then none of this would be an issue.but you can. and because you can, you do. and because you do, you are a very large, very juicy target.ain't EVE a bitch?
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to add to that, if you simply make mining/missining significanly less profitalbe in high-sec, to match the actual risk in high-sec, then this wouldn't be an issue either.if you want nearly risk-free, you you should get nearly reward free. that's the forumula. but ccp has allowed too much isk to be made with too little risk in hi-sec.so it is terribly skewed. and because it's terribly skewed, you take advantage. and because you take advantage, you get taken advantage of.muahahahahah!
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mining half as profitable? Double miner boxes.trololololo
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Making high sec less profitable will only hurt players who earn isk solo. A solo Mackinaw in high sec earns probably 5 - 8 mill per hour, that really isn't a lot when you compare it to ratting in null sec with a teir 3 Battlecruiser costing roughly the same amount of isk and earning about 30 mill per hour. Though if you go afk when ratting you won't have a ship left!If a high sec missioner is lucky they will net 30 mill in an hour running level 4 missions but to do so generally they are running missions in a nice expensive shiny ship (higher start up cost than null).People earn isk in high sec because it is safer, not because isk is necessarily better.Lower the isk per hour and you hurt the casual players who can't afford to spend hours a day grinding for isk or running 20 Mackinaw accounts. Player retention drops and new players find it even harder to get a foot hold in eve.
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ahhhh no. dual boxing is not half as profitable. if it is that way for you, you are derping hard.2x miners = 2x the speed. 2x the speed = 2x the gross given equal timeframes.
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I'd say that the opposite was the case, in the case of the New Order, you'll find a fair percentage of the gankers are also miners and industrialists, it's quite possibly the same with some of the wardec corps. Their competition exploding, and therefore not being able to feed the market, unless they have stockpiles, and the demand for replacement modules from both sides of the equation after concord turn up, means that there's money to be made from feeding the conflict.
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I hope they set James for Executive Producer, now when the position is vacant.
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You must be happy with the resistance nerf. It's biggest effect will be felt with carriers and exhumers.
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I must be going to hell, because for once, I actually agree with something James315 said.
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Who says trade is not PVP? You are competing with other traders, even hundreds at one go if you were in Jita.
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I agree with this sentiment. You want something? Get ready to fight for it.
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Learn to fit frigates then. It's not that hard, it just takes a couple months to be effective.
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Not quite. You notice that there's just as many wardeccers seeking easy kills as there are wardeccers who want to be shot at. The wardeccers seeking easy kills are the ones you wish to deter with a horde of tech 1 ships.
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Because you are wrong.We don't care about losing a ship(or ships) as long as we blow up the target. We don't even care about making a profit either. You just don't get it. Protection would be CONCORD spawning instantly and jamming us the moment we lock them. Protection would be CONCORD spawning instantly and popping us the moment we lock them.Knowing CONCORD will come and pop us after we pop them is not protection. Ask any of people we ganked if they felt protected by CONCORD and see what they say.Now understand that I'm not saying CONCORD should work differently than it does, or offer any kind of protection at all either. I'm just saying you are wrong about it currently offering any kind of meaningful protection. It doesn't.
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Because then the "problem" will shift to another reason. In reality, the reason why there are hi-sec griefers/gankers is the same as to why there are team killers or people who pad their kd/r stats with boosting games in shooters: they simply feel better when they do it.At the same time, if miners don't want to defend themselves, fuck em', let them get camped all day.
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Your argument is based on hyperbole and sterotypes. good luck continuing the "red scare" that carebears are out the ruin the game. 80% of the player base have no connection to the meta game to even know you, your organisation or make any effort to influence events outside the game. They just play Eve in ignorance."EVE has a very diverse playerbase. People come to the game with all different kinds of perspectives and philosophies. Still, there are some things that we all hold in common. One thing that we all share is our reaction to seeing a juicy, high-value target: We want to make it explode."Who is "we all"? Does this include the carebears you are railing against, do they also want the juicy killmail?You can take lawyer out of the court, but it is self-evident, can not take the court out of the lawyer.Frankly I would rather carebears be driven from the game completely. Tippa said the game would survive without them - can we test this? Then who would be the enemy?
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Worst piece of self-righteous garage I have read in a long time. Here the rub....you are a ganker/griefer....the only enjoyment you can find in the game is to attack people that don't have the necessary skills, nor the desire to fight you. When you finally do come upon some group that is willing to defend itself, do you fight?? No! You dock up in station and hide. When you realize that they are going to come at you, you have to use ever cheap shot trick in the book to try and win, i.e. you use out of corp boosters, neut scouts to get a warp in, neut reppers, flight invite tricks, basically anything you can to win. Man, the ganker think carebear tears were good, these tears are unbelieveable!Should high sec be completely safe....yes. I hate to tell you this but its true. You need an area in the game that people can join the game and learn how to play, then move on to more risky enviroments such as low and null sec. Your crying because you and your group on its "crusade" cannot form enough people to compete with the low sec enviroment, and you don't want to risk anything by getting into null. The only "risk" you create is for other players that are too new to the game to stand a chance, and now after you have stacked the deck you want to whine that no one wants to play you, or that they cannot win?! Cry me a river,How about we look at a better way to the game design that you and yours really don't want. Everyone starts the game with a 5.0 security standings, you cannot increase this...it never goes up...but it can go down. You gank in high sec you lose standings, the more you lose the more high sec is restricted to you. You lose enough, then high sec is now off-limits, if you enter high sec in anything other then a pod you get concorded. Now we take low sec....still have gate guns and station guns, but you don't lose security standings for attacking anyone. Null sec remains the same. So now you have your risk area, low sec...which is now full of your fellow "risk creators", that like you "just wanna create content"....how long do you think you'll last?So now you can have a system where if you want risk/reward, you go to low/null. You want to learn the game, or be left alone to make the bare minimum isk/hour, stay in High Sec.Problem is, this isn't what you want. Polish a turd, its still a turd. You can put this spin on what you do all you want, doesn't change what it is.....a turd. The only content you are creating is for yourself. The only people you are interested in helping, is yourself. The only "savior" you are being is to griefers. How about we install a system that put more risk into what you do, like changing the system to the above....not liking that are we?Now...I'm taking my soapbox and going to go wash myself off, cause after reading and going over this turd of an article, I need a bath....Good Day!
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If you're only making 30 million per hour by ratting with a T3 BC in nullsec you're doing it wrong.
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Miners affect the market, you PVP too. If I want to drop mining productivity in an area (or in Goonswarm's case, ALL of High Sec) to increase my own profit margin, I'm going start war-deccing local mining corps and hiring mercs to do the same. This is SOP for non-carebears. Just because you don't bother to understand the game you play doesn't mean we should accommodate your boring lack of insight.If you play this game in order to mine rocks and kill rats, I have to say you have picked the most boring themepark possible. If you like building industrial empires, you better learn to defend industrial empires.
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Faster isk dawg. Plus, the crying over a video game is always entertaining. You don't usually get that from competent PvP'ers so its an extra bonus.
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I would not miss those players, and nobody I have any respect for would either.
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That's cute. I remember when I first started playing EVE.
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Fair fights are a rare thing in EVE. The fun of PvP in this game is the fun of gambling your timespent vs. their timespent and so that means most pvp'ers try to make the gamble as unbalanced towards their end as possible. Cat and mouse PvP is great, the intelligence gathering required to know whether they've gotten reinforcements or whether their fleet layout will trump yours is awesome. Most times I and corps I have been in fight are when we expect to win.
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I think, James_315, that you did a good job of explaining your position. I think you also did a good job of highlighting the issue others have with your position. You explicitly require that an assumption be accepted in order for your position to be valid at all. The assumption in question, then, that you require, is that high sec NEEDS risk and danger that can only be provided by high sec wardec gankers.You are not alone in your assertion, as this argument has been made many times. The idea of maintaining EvE as a dark and dangerous Dystopia where the Law does not really protect you and anytime you undock - anywhere at all in the universe - you are in danger of being blown up by other players. If that is a REQUIREMENT of EvE, then yes, essentially your position is validated.That is how EvE began, how it was for years and indeed how it still is, albeit to a lesser degree. The question is, then, is that what EvE HAS to be? Is staying dangerous in all areas essential to EvE's continued existence? Is danger from other players in high security space required? Is it even in EvE's best interest?Obviously, as someone who plays the game to engage in high sec war decs, you (James_315) and your group of supporters take the side that yes, the Dystopia and danger of EvE is requisite to the game and should never be changed. In fact, you appear to believe that it should be cultivated and is important.That opinion is not shared by all and it is the key difference between tho who want to protect the high sec war dec and those who want to see it go.You state that CCP would be making a Faustian Bargain (a proverbial Deal with the Devil) if they change the game mechanics to make High Sec space safe from unwanted war decs, and in general, if they make it safe, period. This suggestion is biased from the beginning. To be a Deal with the Devil, it would have to actually be BAD for the game to make high sec safer. They would have to be trading their integrity, the very soul of the game for a gain in revenue. But that is not necessarily what CCP would be doing. Yes, it is fairly clear that CCP would make more money if they make high sec safer. I don't think you or anyone else is trying to argue that there are more people who like to blow up high sec miners and mission runners than there are people who like to play EvE to make isk in safety. So yes, clearly making high sec safe will make CCP money. Are they trading the soul of the game to do it? Clearly that is up for debate. We know what side you, James_315, and your supporters are on in this argument. It does no good, however, for you to continue to talk about how your position is irrefutable if your opinions are taken as fact. Can you provide an argument for WHY EvE should stay dangerous in high sec? Why high sec war decs are actually important to EvE? In this article all you did was state that IF we assume that danger is necessary in high sec, then high sec war decs are needed to provide that danger. Clearly many EvE players do not think that danger is necessary.When EvE was new, ten years ago, the total danger and open possibilities were what gave the game its niche. The danger and lack of rules attracted people to an otherwise blank canvas of a game. Over time it grew, but in those early years the player base was small and dedicated to creating something. I think a good argument can be made for why the Dystopia that was early EvE was a strong part of what grew the game into what it is now.2013 is a different time, however. EvE is larger by comparison to even 5 years ago, and it continues to grow. The MMO market has grown and seen many changes as well. What worked for a new kind of game in 2003 is not necessarily what works for a modern MMO now, especially one which aspires to be the largest MMO on the market. I do think CCP wants to continue to grow the player base of EvE. As a player, I hope it continues to grow as well. To even have a chance to approach the subscriber numbers of a game like WoW at it's peak (15 million monthly subs, somewhere around there) EvE cannot stay the same as it was in 2003 or even 2007. I think a good argument can be made that for a game to become as popular as we now know an MMO can become, it needs to appeal to as many types of gamers as possible. If there are places in EvE that are safe for players who do not want to risk PvP encounters, while other places in EvE are extremely dangerous, then EvE stands a better chance of appealing to the maximum number of MMO gamers. It seems inevitable that CCP will go in this direction because more subscribers is, in the end, their goal and the definition of a successful game. You called this a Faustian Bargain, but I honestly see it as the real goal of any video game: to be more popular than you were before. To grow. That is the REAL SOUL of a game and is not being traded away for profit. It IS profit, success, and popularity in the target community.Yes, some people will quit because of these kinds of changes (any changes, really). But losing one to add twenty five is a good trade for any business and is what we should expect. I suggest, James_315, that you are dying breed of EvE player that truly loved the old days of the game, but like so many others, CCP is looking to the future, not the past. Your vision of EvE is fading fast, and far more players are glad to see it go than are stuck longing for the past.TL:DRJames_315 continues to ignore the real discussion here: does even NEED to be dangerous everywhere? The gaming community as a whole appears to be leaning toward NO while James_315 keeps trying to assume the answer is YES and glosses over the true issue and cause of the changing EvE. Let it change. Everything grows and there is nothing inherently wrong with that.
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James_315 is a queer loving rump ranger who spoils our game. I should be allowed to mine in peace!
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Having been on the recieving end of New Order's (and multiple other "fuck carebear" alliances) punishment, I can safely say I 100% endorse this man's mission and his logic. Just stop with the sardonic preacher nonsense. >.<
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Stop failing and learn to love the Skiff. Or at least the tanked Hulk if the wanted more yield.
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You sir are a asshole, congratulations. You have risen to the peak of a eve player. =)
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I wouldn't say that ratting in 0.0 is that hard. I fly an oracle, sit @100 KM off an anomaly and press F1 repeatedly until all spawns are dead, while reading "xxx missed you". From time to time (which is really rare) I have to warp off and back to the anomaly.
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I agree that the real ISK is in Low/Null Sec, but as you rightly say, the game mechanics have made it Alliance level ISK, not Player level ISK. It is all but impossible for a solo player, small Corp to get into Null without subjugating itself to a large Corp or Alliance. Until the balance is corrected and players are encouraged to take risk in Null/Low to get player level ISK, then more and more players will drift into high sec further reinforcing the carebear culture! I believe, for the above reasons, that more and more new players are going into and staying in High Sec, with the result that Risk Takers/Pirates/Griefers/Gankers are following them in, because they are starved of "Easy" targets in Null/Low Sec. The problem is that they then Whinge because the carebears don't want to play Boom Boom! Correct the Risk/ Player ISK balance and the game will sort itself.
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I have to second this. Miners don't defend themselves because they can't. Mining is often considered the most boring thing you can do in eve, however I don't think that's the case. I think defending miners is the most boring. Odds are you sit in space for hours at a time, where you can't afk, all while not even having a rock to shoot at. The person who would do that is even more nuts than us miners.
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But we do see PvPers whinging and crying every day, witness this set of posts? They drift into High Sec (Often with Alts) because they can't find "easy" targets in Null/Low Sec and the targets out in Null/Low are too tough for them! With the increasing numbers of new gamers staying in High Sec, these so called PvPers whinge and cry cos nobody wants to play their game in high sec?
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Well, I mine in Low Sec every day. I know how to align and get out quick, I also know when to have a cloaked Corp mate nearby to surprise the guy who thought he had and "Easy Target". This is the crux of the issue the "So called" Pvpers want easy targets, they can't find them in Null/Low Sec any more, so they, or their Alts, go to High Sec looking for "Easier Targets". Then whinge and cry because those in high sec don't want to play their game.
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Yep, so the hero PvPers go to Hi Sec and whinge and cry cos nobody wants to play!
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I agree, we need to encourage Newbie's Carebears to learn the game and develop into the habit of taking risks! Get a lot more people playing and with the right risk/ISK reward we will encourage more of them into Low/Null Sec. and more targets for the Pvpers! Right now all the PvPers are chasing easy targets into High Sec then whinging and crying because nobody wants to play their game!
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Some things never change it seems. I have played EVE off and on over the years since they started. It has always had this cycle. The game advocates, advertises and sells on the exciting PVP combat, sandbox, player councils, all the press and video and media are what - Combat related. Tourneys, Corp wars, territory battles. All of which can be had without being in Highsec it is true. As has been mentioned by people on both / all sides there is a healthy mix of players with widely different play styles. The game has over the past few years done an excellent job of expanding what at its heart has always been ships, combat and glorifying stories of betrayal, revenge and smart / devious game play. It is also true that in all games there are proportionally more who are drawn to the non PVP styles of play. Be it mining, crafting, playing the market or just the social aspect of it. And as always the cycle goes on where those who prefer to be left alone get to a tipping point and CCP acts - often totally without balance to shield them for a season. I can say from my own observation that it is still better now for those who desire PVP than it was in the early days. I will point out that without being fully knowledgeable of these latest proposals the whole proposal a year or so ago for war decs and the intended thrust being that those who do not like to be attacked would just have to hire / put out contracts to hire groups to defend / fight their battles for them. It seemed a fair rule to me. So the wheel is turning again it seems.
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Funny, those first 3 paragraphs highlight EXACTLY why James is the most awesome bastard.
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I am a high-sec hugging carebear. I mine and run missions. I fully understand why you would choose "us" as your targets. Quite simply we are excellent targets of oppurtunity. I do not hold that against you, but rather find the fact that at any time I could come under fire to be a boost to my game play experience. If I wanted a safe place to mine for hours on end without any risk, I would go outside and play in my sons sandbox.Nothing keeps the adrenaline flowing quite like flying a big shiny defencless ship loaded with toys and knowing that at any time someone could attack and carve it up out form under me.
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You are only fags and reterds. [hello]
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it is nice watching people squirm ^_^
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I remember some years ago, when someone (might have been from CCP, I am not sure) compared Eve Online to Ultima Online. I played Ultima Online, and Eve seems to share some of the basic philosophies, at least before EA games made Ultima Online nice and safe for (nearly) everyone. I was a crafter in UO, and I accepted the risks that some PKer might come along and kill me, I included it in my gold making plans. Later, I became a Thief and stole stuff. I think it was a great rush to try to steal someone's Vanq weapon and hightail it to the inn to log off before they brutally slaughtered me. It was a lot of fun. Later I played WoW, and found though it was fun, it offered a different experience, and that was fine.Eve is designed with that brutality in mind. If they take it away, it becomes a different game. If you don't like that brutality, don't play the game. No one will complain if you don't like the game, there's plenty of other games out there. I think what makes Eve different, is that brutality, that slice of medieval life that spices things up. I have a few alts, most are involved in station trading, though i have a miner and transporter alt. For me, I'd like to make a few more billion and then take up PvPing. I've enjoyed PvP in other games and would really like to try it out in Eve.I think there's a fundamental lack of understanding when it comes to how Eve is constructed and how it can be played. Essentially, I see it as an alternate version of medieval Europe. You can gather resources, you can make those resources into tools, or weapons, or whatever you like. You can take up the sword if you like. You can do any of these activities, and there's still that threat that someone with a sword will come and try to take your stuff, whether you have a sword yourself, or you just make them. With cloning and such, you'll never really die, you'll just lose isk. This is one of the themes of Eve is that you can lose stuff, and that it has a cost.I think its really really interesting, that although there's a big complaint about losing material and resources in space, I never hear of any complaints about station traders losing their money in the market. It does happen, I've taken a number of losses over the years, and it sucks, but I don't complain about it, no one will care anyway. If you're able enough, you will make a profit over your losses and continue to grow. If not, your resources will dwindle until you find something more profitable, or you end up back in your newb ship mining roids again.I've been killed plenty of times in online games over the years, and it always sucks. I think though, if they made a game where you only grew in power and could only improve, I would find that game very boring. I have played something similar, its called Zynga poker on Facebook. Its probably the worst implementation of Texas Hold'em I've ever seen. You can essentially sit back and do whatever you want, there's no cost to you but your time. If you like that, more power to you. I find it incredibly boring.For me, there has to be that threat of loss, that threat that a mistake can cost you something, that makes it interesting.Essentially, Eve is a game where there's the threat that some Viking will come over to you and say "Nice ship, shame if something terrible happened to it." If you're able to deal with this, then please stay and enjoy the ride. If not, then please find a game that's more up your alley.If you go back to UO today, you'll find the majority of the populace lives in peace, free from loss, free from thieves, free from being killed by PKers. It broke the spirit of the game. I found it so boring I left and never went back.If you complain about people blowing up your stuff in space, do something about it, even if its just including the cost of the losses in your business plan, or hiring mercenaries.
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There's nothing wrong with Industry players, there's also nothing wrong with ganking. It's a sandbox, I play how I want, and you play how you want. However my style of play might just make your day suck. Kind of like life, my happiness might ruin yours. It's just how New Eden is and if you really don't like a section (That you don't even have to be a part of) of the game, an extremely large and lucrative and (to some players) fun section well...Leave it alone, gank them, or quit. Now...I'm a Dust player (Dusty, Dust-bunny, Duster etc.) but this seems a simple and logical debate to end. It's a sandbox and maybe (just maybe) I decide I want to knock over your sandcastle and stroke my epeen.
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As a miner myself.. I don't really see the big issue.Eve is a PvP game.Eventually, you're gonna die. Someday. Somehow.But if you mine fast and mine smart, and keep a low profile instead of baaawing like a bitch everytime someone takes a shot at you, you 'just might' make some ISK.Perhaps you shouldn't go afk while your Billion ISK baby is carving at rocks.Learn to look over your shoulder. Be paranoid.Trust noone.Automatically learn to believe that everyones a pirate who wants to blow you up and steal your shit.Its a nervewracking career, but it 'should' be.ISK ain't free, baby.
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Do we all realise the whole thing is taking place in a fantasy Galaxy where NOBODY gets hurt? Do we also realise that the one thing which threatens the collapse of the entire Galaxy is a VERY REAL threat. And that if we don't make sure there is a way for new comers to find their feet within the game, skill up, find friends, get resourced and prepare for battle - to come and kick James and the New Order's ass - that very real threat gains ground?I think James has a great point about creating risk within all areas of the game. Valid and perhaps is the beating heart of the game. Which kind of attracts you in. Keeps you intrigued. On edge wanting to survive and see what could be next.But my first experience of Eve was only 1 month because It just started to look too much like REAL LIFE. Which is HARD WORK. I don't want to work hard in a game. I want to PLAY hard. It took me 4 years to come back for a second try and I was fortunate enough to find a corp who welcomed me in and are able to support me in some ways. Giving me a leg up when I need it.Player retention is an important issue. And I think it's arrogant in the extreme to want a game environment which keeps player retention low. What the bloody hell is wrong with CCP gaining higher revenues? That's why they worked so damn hard to create the game in the first place ya twonk.Funny that you use gaining in game currency as your argument for breaking piñata's. Chasing money is fine as long as it's... not money?
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For me, it really 'is' a job, but one that I enjoy. ...as odd as that sounds.I've always been a loot whore, and an auction house junkie. In every game i've ever played. I love collecting money and hauling around resources and watching the ISK lifeblood of the game ebb and flow on the markets.I think its exciting to know that, even though i'm just a tiny blip in the game universe (Not even part of a proper Corp. or anything. I've been going solo since I started.), and even though I don't make 'millions' of ISK at a time, me and my leaky, shitty little boat still contribute to the game as a whole.
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James would wrap a kitten in barbed wire and laugh at it just because he deems it unworthy of living. I mean kittens don't do anything, they just lick their genitals, eat, shit and make noise. So why not do it? Why hunt boars when torturing kittens is so much easier and so much more satisfying? All hail the new order of kitten torture! Oh and james, I know for sure you're a fucking lunatic. Good luck in your video game crusade. At least you're not harming my dear kittens.
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So to sum it up, the lazy High Sec ISK attarcts the lazy killers.

Previously, I wrote an editorial defending non-consensual wardecs against some of the new criticisms being leveled by members of the CSM and CCP. Another regular contributor to this website, Hilmar Keller, wrote a response, questioning the value of non-consensual wardecs. Hilmar's argument against wardecs culminated with this question:

"The attacker has many advantages, but most prominently, the attacker wants to fight. It's hard to call a lynching a fair fight, but James does it in so many words. So if I had one question for James315  one that I hope he might answer without his typical self-congratulatory, messiah-complexed rhetoric  it would be this: Why do you so badly want to fight those who so badly do not want to fight you?"

I won't make any promises about my rhetoric, but I will answer the question. It's an important question, because although it may be simple on the surface, it cuts right to the core of EVE. What's so great about non-consensual PvP?

The question is almost exclusively raised in the context of highsec, even though non-consensual PvP occurs throughout the EVE galaxy. Before we tackle highsec, let's consider why it is that people only care about protecting non-combatants in highsec. For example, Hilmar offered the following suggestion to people who don't like highsec carebears:

"Do you want to be rid of carebears? Move to low-sec. You can shoot them whenever you want. Or null-sec, or W-space, or hell, go outside."

Putting aside the cryptic reference to the great outdoors, the invitation to go to lowsec, nullsec, or w-space is one that I receive often. Anyone who engages in PvP in highsec is bound to hear their "victims" complain that PvP'ers belong elsewhere. It's true that highsec carebears are generally incapable of — or uninterested in — fighting back. But this is also true of many people who live outside of highsec. Those who mine in lowsec and nullsec are no more eager to get shot at. People who are busy PvE'ing to make money do not wish to engage in PvP, regardless of where they are in the EVE galaxy. The frequent complaint, "Why don't you shoot something that can shoot back?" can be made anywhere.

Nullsec miners know not to whine to CCP when their ships get blown up. Most people recognize that by entering lowsec or nullsec, they are accepting the attendant risks. PvE'ing in highsec, too, carries a certain level of risk, even if it's much lower. Yet highsec players are not assumed to have accepted that risk. What makes highsec so special? It comes down to a carebear culture that's spreading across EVE. This culture says that risks outside of highsec should be accepted, but risks inside highsec should be removed.

Many scoff at the idea of a risk-free theme park in highsec. I think people tend to underestimate how easy it is to fall into the theme park trap. Consider whether you agree with the following statement: "People who have no interest in PvP and who just want to make money in highsec should be left alone." If they are left alone, then who is going to kill them? And if they can't be killed, where is the risk? Voilà, a risk-free theme park. The cold, harsh logic can't be denied: If we don't want highsec to be risk-free, then we need someone to provide the risk. These people are not "griefers", they are risk creators. And for the most part, they're wardeccers.

Having accepted that highsec needs risk, the question becomes, who would want to be That Guy who shoots at defenseless highsec carebears? Everyone agrees that it's perfectly fine to shoot at defenseless lowsec or nullsec PvE'ers, of course. But PvE'ers in highsec? They're the weakest of the weak, so surely only the most sadistic griefers in the game would want to pick on them. Right?

James 315
James 315 has a distinguished history of combat in nullsec, mostly fighting against the Band of Brothers alliance, which was a bad alliance. Recently he has moved to highsec, where he currently serves as Father of the New Order and Saviour of Highsec