W-Space: Get Rich and Die Trying

Avatar
I'm glad you can tell us the difference between Branson and black people: you're right, Branson is totally not doing obviously-public activities for attention.Rest of your article is "well, people in w-space make about as much money a week as a decent exploration toon, so they're willing to throw money away". Not really sure you're making much of a point here
Avatar
this. A whole lot of words for someone with very little to say.
Avatar
One of the better articles on this site. Thanks for the insight and the rather funny examples.
Avatar
WH has too much advantage over k-space and too low risk to live in. Lets say your corp lives in a class 5 wh, where only the loot from a rat BS is 50Misk. You do all the anomallies which are active and instead of waiting for another spawn next day you just scan for the wh in your own system. If it is again class 5 you go and do the anomalies there. If by some chance it leads to undesirable space - like goon space for instance - you jump a carrier through in and out and close the WH. There is imediately another one spawning leading to some other place. There is no need for system upgrades, no need for soverenity warfare nothing. 20man corp can make tons of money and avoid all undesirable fights. Hence WH should be nerfed - TOO MUCH ISK for too small risk involved!
Avatar
WH has too much advantage over k-space and too low risk to live in. Lets say your corp lives in a class 5 wh, where only the loot from a rat BS is 50Misk. You do all the anomallies which are active and instead of waiting for another spawn next day you just scan for the wh in your own system. If it is again class 5 you go and do the anomalies there. If by some chance it leads to undesirable space - like goon space for instance - you jump a carrier through in and out and close the WH. There is imediately another one spawning leading to some other place. There is no need for system upgrades, no need for soverenity warfare nothing. 20man corp can make tons of money and avoid all undesirable fights. Hence WH should be nerfed - TOO MUCH ISK for too small risk involved!
Avatar
"We spend our time doing terrible PvE and not actually encountering any other player. We're truly Gods."
Avatar
sorry for double message, there was a problem with the comments it didnt show and i put it second time.
Avatar
How much time have you spent in a wormhole?For a start, genuine PvP corporations will not run from nulsec, they will harass the farmers in there.Secondly, you will not get a nulsec to goon space spawn if you are rolling your static for wormhole anomalies. If you are doing that you live in a system with a w-space static of some sort.Thirdly, the risk in w-space is pretty high. There may not be a sov game but there are definitely territorial disputes and large battles. Defending yourself against other wormhole corporations and existing in a constant state of paranoia is the price you pay for living in w-space.
Avatar
>grinding for money>not just stealing moneyI mean, wormhole corps? You could recruit scam the fuck out of some fucking tryhards if you really wanted to. Like literally "EVERYTHING IN THE POS M8", b0sh, fuck off back to hisec, thanks for your shit level scams.Why the hell not? You make more stealing other people's money than you do grinding for it in this game.
Avatar
"All told, an individual can make a billion or two per week if they work at it and put in their time."You can make that in a day in nullsec, safely, without having to worry about reps or cap transfer or if there's a cloaked neut somewhere watching you. ISBoxer is your friend, Naga's are CCP's gift to those that use it.
Avatar
Very well written and hits the nail on the head, i just moved out of WH space and live in nullsec now, the idc about this loss attitude is hard to break when i throw billion isk lokis, tengu's, and bhaalgorns at the enemy roam just for fun. and if you apply this to the major fights in wh space that have been happening that can range from 30-100 billion in losses does not hope to crack the wallets some of these WH alliances/corps have.
Avatar
+1 for isboxer, and second nagas? do explain
Avatar
Think about this, what would you do if you didnt have local....ever unless someone talked in it
Avatar
Very well written and hits the nail on the head, i just moved out of WH space and live in nullsec now, the idc about this loss attitude is hard to break when i throw billion isk lokis, tengu's, and bhaalgorns at the enemy roam just for fun. and if you apply this to the major fights in wh space that have been happening that can range from 30-100 billion in losses does not hope to crack the wallets some of these WH alliances/corps have.
Avatar
Hmm guess the comments showing is a tad slow i apologize for multiple of the same comments
Avatar
You really dont know what your chatting the top sleeper battleship (guardain) drops 20million in tags most others less (15million) if you get lucky with melted nanos maybe a bit more but they are random, rolling your static for pve is done by some but you wont roll in to goon space unless you have a static nullsec, and in that case you wont be running sites in your static.Alot of teh bigger pvp corps will also actively try to kick out farmers who never fight, wh space is definetly not without risks,nice article btw
Avatar
Mate, you can make more ISK in WHs in a weekend than you could ever steal from any WH corp with even rudimentary security measures in place.Very good article.
Avatar
You miss my point - I mean using your position as a WH corp -to- scam people.
Avatar
For the record, those numbers are extremely lowballed.2 skilled people with a couple alts each can easily go and make 10-15bil each in a weekend if they really want to.The point is, most WH people don't do that level of PVE because they no longer need to so they might run a couple sites a week when it's quiet and make their bil or 2 a week to put in their loose change wallet.
Avatar
Terrible article.
Avatar
I disagree. Failure to respect the power of sleepers means you lose your caps. Secondly, now that you cannot log off from PvE. you are forced to decide to fight, die or warp off before they find you. It is not risk free PvE.If you want to argue for risk free PvE you'd only need to look at null-sec ratting and compare it to W-space.
Avatar
Actually, I think the point is more like "people in w-space care less about hoarding spacemoney, so they pvp more"
Avatar
" 350M each for a few hours' worth of work" sounds a lot less impressive than you might think. even a hisec mission runner can get up to 100mil/hour if he knows what he is doing, and i'm not even talking about exploration, station trading or incursions.
Avatar
Having been in WH space for some time I can say the above article is a bit of an exaggeration; there is not any actual magic in WH space it is however the most harsh and rich space in eve and is a great example of the extremes eve has to offer. I agree that everyone should at least seriously consider trying WH space but would also give a warning to anyone who goes for it "Consider anything your taking into WH space lost forever before you make that first jump"On a side note: Any article really needs to clearly state the point it was trying to make, in the first paragraph.(imo)
Avatar
Except there is no isk in WH space, only loot... The players who purchase T3 ships decide how profitable WH space is. Unlike 0.0 where the isk faucet is significant.
Avatar
Sleepers also drop salvage, which is sold to NPC sell orders, so they do, in fact, produce isk. And the largest isk sources in nullsec are moons (at the alliance level) and probably exploration (at the personal level), both of which produce items whose value is determined by the market.Ratting is a significant isk faucet, but that's because so many people do it more than anything else.
Avatar
So long as you're shooting guristas or serpentis rats in a forsaken hub, Naga are the best ships for running anomalies in the game. They get better when you have multiples, of course.
Avatar
a billion or 2 a week? you're doing it wrong.
Avatar
If your interested.... http://youtu.be/bC-FZ8qXwrc
Avatar
Wat??? Having 100 POS monkeys manage your tech moons is as risk free as not undocking
Avatar
Oh please. any WH corp in a high class WH won't care. Maybe in the C1s-C3s, but we all just make too much ISK to care.
Avatar
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v...Man, I see in EVE the strongest and smartest MMO players who've ever been lived. I see all this potential, and I see it squandered. Gorram it, an entire generation mining veld, running anoms - slaves with white collars. EFT has us chasing mods and implants, working grinds we hate so we can buy shit we don't need. We're the middle children of history, man. No purpose or place. We have no Great War, no Great Isksink. Our great war is a personal war. Our great isksink is our own PLEXes. We've all be raised on ads to believe that one day we'd all be trillionaires, alliance CEOs, and solo PvP legends, but we won't. We're slowly learning that fact. And we're very, very blueballed.
Avatar
Oh you.
Avatar
It is also worth pointing out that w-space is really EVE in hard mode. If someone invades, you can (and people often do) lose everything you own. So yeah, there is a lot of ISK to be made, but there is a lot more risk as well.
Avatar
Again, you can make more in WHs just by running the sites once in a while than scamming recruits, corps, members, whoever. It just isnt worth the effort.
Avatar
"All told, an individual can make a billion or two per week if they work at it and put in their time."Per week? I make 0.5-1.0b a day. You heard me, a day. When I choose to play of course.
Avatar
Dumbest comment ever, like Sorany mentions. Surprise buttseks happens. K-space have local. w-space doesn't. You can call for backup with cynos, w-space doesn't have that. Sleepers here are LITTLE harder than k-space, they also neut, web and disrupt. You commit every time you enter a site. There is quite some planning and scouting done while doing sites in a non-home w-space site with caps/shiny t3's. You make it should like we can pop in 3 man into a C5 and kill a few BS for 50m a pop in 5 minutes and gtfo with 10b in your pockets. That's not how it works. If you find someone doing sites and they don't have proper scouting, you're killing fish in a barrel. End of story. Risk is very high since you don't know what going on around you and when you find out, it's usually too late if you're doing sites.
Avatar
Every thing writen in here is true to some point. The MOST important thing that isn't true however is what ppl think about others living in WH space. Just beacous you found some post on reddit, or maybe in envy that wh dudes got more attention the you, doesn't mean that what you write is true:- Doing c5/c6 Sleeper Escalations takes practice and a certain skill set + a certain ammount of ppl.- c5 sites avrage at around 400-600mil, c6 sites avarege at about 600-800 mil.- usualy it takes 11 ppl to run the site, if you want less you NEED the high SP pilots simply becaous the groups start downgrading theyre cap/tracking/tank for painters/webs/dps + better then avarege implants + boosters and drugs- Yesterday ouer fleet did 15 fully escalated sties in a c6, we earned a total of 11bil isk, took us ~5,3 hrs, do the math"They think they're safe in their own system, and when they're active, it's usually a simple matter of finding them at a customs office, k-space exit, or anomaly." I'm happy that you found some scrubs that just moved to satisfy your lust for wh knowledge ;-). The hostile enviroment of whspace - lack of local, ability to sneak on your target in a cloak fleet by use of onboard scanner, or perfectly timmed combat probes makes it sometimes immposible to escape, or not beeing suprised by a raiding party. Every 1 living in wh space knows theyre not save there. Sometimes ppl get caugh doing PI simply becous they have to do it, and its extremely easy to capture them, got nothing to do with theyre skill or confidence in them beeing save. Ppl that get caught doing anomalys simply can't warp away even if they seem probes/fleet on d-scan, simply becous they are scramed/webed/neuted by sleepers.Ppl coming through a long chain of Whs, from k-space to theyre home system will often be ambushed on one of the sides by a HIC and a small fleet whos scout spooted them somewhere along the way. And last but not least, ppl will lose capital ships and entire fleets (trying to save that capital) just becous they tryed to collapse one of the WH leaving to theyre home, or get caught while doing sites.Now tell me mitani how is this building ones confidence about beeing save? "Safer" then doing null bear stuff with a local channel that you watch like a hawk and just GTFO whenever you see a neutral jump in?Now some ISK info about null bears: A lvl 5 military system in -1 true sec with tons of heavens/sanctums. It takes 12-15min to earn 27mil while grinding sanctums in a machariel. It takes 2min to scan a system in search od Deadspace Complexes. It takes ~40min to solo clear then. 7/10, 8/10 10/10 can give you anything beetwen 100mil to 3 bil isk upon completion. I've spend more then a year farming those complexes. On a good day of work which was about 4hrs and 4 of the above sites done I made anything beetwen 3-11bil. And I was PERFECTLY save. Becous the second I've seen some 1 in local - Log out/Warp station/SS. How can you even compare WH to K-space is beyond me."Often times, players end up imposing a form of 'fun rationing' on themselves where they will only permit their wallets to dip so much in a given time period and then dial it back for a bit. I know because I’ve been there before." - Thats a cool story bro, give us another one."To those who were born into poverty, money itself tends to be extremely important. Think about rap stars who decorate themselves with gaudy chains, garish designer clothing and diamonds in their mouths. Some of that is just the flamboyant, in-your-face style of hip-hop but it originated in part because hip-hop was created by a marginalized and materially poor demographic. Growing up, most of them never had money to speak of, and now that they have so much, they want to flaunt their perception of success in the most eye-catching way possible. It's an expression of liberation from the stress associated with being poor and the monetary value of their outfits and jewelry is often far more important than the fashion sense it displays. This is essentially how the average k-space player would behave if presented with 100B ISK." - Even tho the rap thing is kinda true to a point, how can you even write stuff like that? How many Officer fitted Titans do you have? How much ISK are you making from renting systems to other corp/ally?See the main diffrence is we EARNED ouer isk, while those of us old enough to remmember, know excatly what types of scams/contracts/tax etc you and your buddys used to build that seat of yours. We (WH ppl) will not be judged by a scrub like you mitani.
Avatar
Can't be arsed to read this...TL;DR?
Avatar
After a few days in a WH I start to feel like in the "Cube" movies.
Avatar
I'm not hiding. I don't care how to spel mitani. No one is but hurt. Learn to read with understandment.
Avatar
We (WH ppl) will not be judged by a scrub like you mitani.With your last sentence directed squarely at Mittens, it clearly seems like Mittens has given you an awfull lot of butthurt at some point.Oh, and CFC doesn't allow "renters", you either earned the space that you own, or you don't own space as a part of the CFC.
Avatar
Sup Mittani

Now You’re Thinking With Wormholes

Players who live in wormhole space inevitably experience a shift in how they conceptualize the game. It’s partly a consequence of living in a place where folds in space-time can effortlessly transport you between what are normally distant regions. To a known space pilot, systems have a permanent spatial arrangement, but for a wormhole space pilot, Domain and Tenerifis can be only a few jumps away.

[]

As a wormhole resident myself, I can tell you that people who live in wormhole space (w-space) almost never expect known space (k-space) pilots to venture far into the gateless unknown and we realize that wormholes are almost non-existent in their minds. The reality is that there are wormholes all over k-space, in almost every constellation. Wormholes are all around them, and yet, when pursuing enemy gangs or scouting for hostiles, it is all-too-common for k-space pilots to completely ignore the possibility that there might be a wormhole nearby. The difference between a k-space and a w-space pilot is almost entirely a matter of perception and this difference isn’t limited merely to how they view travel through space.

This piece will explore a key difference between known space and wormhole space: the perception of ISK among PvP groups. Many pilots see battle reports in w-space involving hugely expensive ships and mods, and what they often take away from the experience is the idea that it’s hard to get into this area of the game. They don’t have the money to afford the kind of ships wormhole players do, and they put off trying to live and fight there, thinking it’s something they can attempt when their bankroll is a lot fatter. This is not how a w-space PvPer views the game at all, and if you're interested in rampaging through the depths of w-space, you will need to change your mode of thinking.

Rationing Fun

For most pilots in EVE, the ISK they have is never enough. The promise of that new ship, skillbook or maybe an expensive BPO is ever-tantalizing and EVE players have been known to do some stunningly boring tasks for hours, days, weeks, and even months to achieve their funding goals. The general term for such activity in video games, and MMOs in particular, is called ‘grinding.’ In EVE it has actually congealed into a style of gameplay: miners, mission-runners and even most people in C1 to C3 w-space have taken what was a chore in other games and turned it into their profession in EVE.

If you doubt this assertion, just consider the professional mission-runner for a minute. This breed of player will spend the vast majority of his or her play time getting talked down to by NPC mission agents and completing the same small collection of missions for a few million ISK each time. Usually the purpose is to buy shinier modules or ships, so they can run those exact same missions again with greater ease. Note that I’m not talking about newer players who are just building a decent bankroll and don’t have the skills to get into bigger and better things yet. The people I’m talking about are those pilots who never get beyond this phase of their EVE lives and view missions as a long-term profession. They are eternally building the faction battleship or marauder of their dreams, complete with deadspace or officer modules and implant sets worth billions. EVE is a sandbox, but mission-runners have chosen to treat it as a theme park by abhorring risk and substituting ship development for gear development.

The example of a professional level 4 mission-runner is obviously an extreme. Most end-game players in EVE operate somewhere in the gray area between an absolute lack of care for their ISK situation and the total aversion to risk that characterizes most of hisec. They grind ISK so they can buy PLEX and engage in more entertaining things like PvP roams, adding to their BPO collection, struggling for dominance in faction warfare, or whatever it is they’re into. If they had an unlimited source of ISK, they would be focusing on their main interest exclusively, but since ISK is fleeting, they need to return to the pixel mines regularly and refresh their bank accounts.

A natural consequence is that throwing ISK around is something most players do sparingly. After all, the sooner they spend their ISK, the sooner they'll have to go back to grinding. Often times, players end up imposing a form of 'fun rationing' on themselves where they will only permit their wallets to dip so much in a given time period and then dial it back for a bit. I know because I’ve been there before. The mindset is that ISK is fun and fun is finite, just like any other scarce resource in New Eden.

Books and Their Covers

It comes as no surprise then, that when these players hear about battles between PvP groups in wormhole space involving dozens of billion-ISK vessels, many of them surmise that they do not qualify for inclusion in the club. In their minds, they don't have nearly enough money to afford this kind of play style and could not imagine themselves regularly fielding faction-fit T3 ships or capitals. Surely, the participants are fabulously wealthy and w-space is their playground. Or so they believe.

I came across a comment in an EVE Reddit thread recently that embodies this kind of thinking:

Question though, it sounds like it'd be tough to actually try out wormhole space by myself (as I am a low SP player). It sounds like people are flying and fighting in really blingy ships with high sp requirements and that you need to really be in a WH corp to do it. Is there any way a new player could contribute and have fun in w-space, other than just serving as a scout that sits cloaked on a gate all the time?

The assumption there is that newer and inexperienced players can't hack it in w-space, for reasons of ISK and skills. That's not true at all. Not all wormholes are created equal and lower-level systems (C1-C3) are very easy for a newer player to practice in. What makes it so easy is that the residents of low-level systems are quite often completely lacking in situational awareness. They think they're safe in their own system, and when they're active, it's usually a simple matter of finding them at a customs office, k-space exit, or anomaly. Mining fleets, lone Drakes, faction battleships, haulers, and even Orcas doing PI (no joke) will present themselves to you fairly often. If you love solo roams or working with a few friends, C1-C3 w-space is the ideal environment.

Even for those looking to move up to serious PvP in C5 and C6 systems, all you'll need is a couple billion in your pocket and a decent history of PvP to show the recruiters. This shouldn't take long to achieve if you've spent a month or two running Sleeper anomalies in the downtime between hunts. Don't worry about affording faction modules yet; the big fights between wormhole groups are not as high-stakes as you might think. Once again, it's all a matter of perspective.

Letting Yourself Become…Tyler Durden

Most players know that you can make gobs of space-cash in w-space but few truly understand the sheer volume of ISK to be had when you live in a high-end wormhole system. Many groups can take down a fully capital-escalated Sleeper site in under ten minutes, earning the participants an average of 1.2B, split 9-14 ways. They might do 3-5 of these in a night and take home somewhere around 350M each for a few hours' worth of work. Any sites run in the static system just add to the total. In addition, there are a fair number of high-end gas sites that require very minimal training and investment to harvest, representing 450-600M per site and split between 3-5 pilots. All told, an individual can make a billion or two per week if they work at it and put in their time.

When you look at it in this context, does it still seem outrageous that high-end wormhole PvP groups would be comfortable pissing away a few billion in a single fight? Of course not. In EVE as in real life, money has a value that we ascribe to it. This has nothing to do with exchange rates or purchasing power; how we value our money, in our minds, is tied pretty closely to how difficult it was to acquire and the amount available to us. This is colloquially called ‘knowing the value of a dollar' and different people have different perceptions of what is appropriate to spend on various goods and services.

To those who were born into poverty, money itself tends to be extremely important. Think about rap stars who decorate themselves with gaudy chains, garish designer clothing and diamonds in their mouths. Some of that is just the flamboyant, in-your-face style of hip-hop but it originated in part because hip-hop was created by a marginalized and materially poor demographic. Growing up, most of them never had money to speak of, and now that they have so much, they want to flaunt their perception of success in the most eye-catching way possible. It's an expression of liberation from the stress associated with being poor and the monetary value of their outfits and jewelry is often far more important than the fashion sense it displays. This is essentially how the average k-space player would behave if presented with 100B ISK.

On the opposite end of the spectrum, those who were born into wealth or are extremely adept at making money tend to assign a very low psychological value to money itself and appreciate the experiences it can buy them far more highly. Think about Sir Richard Branson, the multi-billionaire founder of Virgin Group. This guy goes around attempting to break world records, traveling into space, and kite surfing with naked models on his back while on vacation in a tropical paradise. On the surface, he seems to do the same thing that rap stars do, which is to say he spends money freely on extravagant things. However, the character and goals of his purchases differ quite significantly. His aim is thrilling experiences and he couldn’t care less about what people think of it.

Now, if you can, imagine a few dozen Richard Bransons flying ultra-high-tech death machines through uncharted space - and they’re all immortal. Are you starting to see where I’m going with this? To outsiders, it might seem like w-space pilots are just extravagant ballers who spend inordinate sums of ISK because they can, but in reality, the play style of PvP corps and alliances in w-space is a product of the environment and in service of something more sublime.

Doing It for the Adrenaline

W-space turns the relationship between ISK and fun on its head. The amount of ISK available to wormhole residents is staggering, and because w-space is so devoid of life, truly good fights come around maybe once every couple weeks if they’re lucky. In the meantime, less-expensive ganks and skirmishes with nullsec players suffice to keep their appetites whetted. What this means for you is that the intimidatingly expensive nature of w-space should not be a deterrent. Simply living in a high-end system for even a month or two with an established corp will turn you into the kind of player who couldn’t care less about losing a billion-ISK Proteus and wouldn’t hesitate to throw a carrier at a mean-looking enemy gang. There will always be more sites to run and gas to harvest. The loss, if it can even be called that, ceases to have meaning.

If material value is no longer important, we are left with intangibles. The thrill of competition and the struggle for bragging rights becomes the all-consuming goal, and an approximation can be found in the mentality of a sports team and their fans. In sports, the outcomes of the matches are, in a material sense, meaningless. Sure, people can and do invest a lot of their time and even identity in the fortunes of their favorite team. Yet, outside of the business aspect, nothing that happens in professional sports affects the larger community of people in a lasting way. It’s pure entertainment and the impact it has is confined to the spectacle of clashing opponents, the rush of the big game, and the story of how it all came down to that final play. The outcome may have no concrete meaning but it remains exciting as a contest of ability, endurance, and spirit. Some contests and rivalries even achieve the status of legend.

It’s a pretty apt analogy – exercise and exertion generally causes our bodies to release endorphins that make us euphoric and lend a general feeling of well-being. You can see this camaraderie and deep sense of contentedness readily in locker room interviews, especially on the winning side. They didn’t gain or lose anything by playing but it was a fulfilling experience all the same. In EVE, there is no physical exertion involved but anyone who has gone on a PvP roam before knows about adrenaline and the quest for space-glory on the field of battle alongside their trusted friends.

Simply put, it’s exhilarating. No other activity in EVE, or any other game I’ve ever played, comes close.

Get Yourself a Gun

W-space is not always exciting, but if there’s one thing that can be said about it, it’s that the play style is fresh and routinely satisfying. Having largely removed the value of ISK from the game experience, w-space life is rewarding because it allows you to play the game for the fun of it, unbound by the normal constraints of fun rationing that most k-space players must work within. Low-end systems are readily accessible to newer players and high-end systems are not a place reserved for the already-wealthy. Living in w-space molds you into a player that perceives the game in a more abstract way and permits you to focus far more on the exciting activities that truly interest you.

If this sounds attractive, and I can’t see why it wouldn’t be, start doing some reading about w-space. I guarantee that the barriers to entry are much less difficult to surmount that many players seem to realize. EVE University and the EVE Wiki have some great information on wormhole mechanics, and you’ll probably want to start there. The best way to learn, of course, is to find a wormhole corp recruiting on the EVE-O forums and join up with them. W-space is very under-populated and corps are almost always looking for more pilots to train.

All you have to lose is a little ISK, and over time, even that will not matter.

Straight outta J115405, I'm a wormhole resident and director in Hard Knocks Inc. When not writing about wormhole PvP and events in the greater w-space community, I enjoy jokes about Kazakhstan and the occasional glass of delicious tears.