Understanding Raiden's Move to the HBC

Avatar
Botters can talk?
Avatar
I hope raiden recovers! it was really one of my favorite alliances, and i guess still is, if nulli disbanded tomorrow i'd definately try to join Raiden before any other alliance.so +1 to raiden and best of luck from here!
Avatar
Raiden: Proof that culture change can often be for the best.If only -A- would take note.
Avatar
I love the propaganda - not sarcasm or trolling, I literally am enjoying the propaganda :) Eve has amazing meta :) I love the way that the pressure is being applied outside of the Eve client with just as much vigour and thought as in space.
Avatar
What does it say then that "botters" (rolling my eyes hard) are more capable of changing and adapting then -A- is?When faced with changing circumstances, null sec entities have two options. They can either refuse to adapt and suffer damage in the long run (potentially die) or learn to adapt and go through short term growing pains, but ultimately continue to survive (perhaps even thrive).It seems that most entities have learned to adapt to the "age of coalitions". It's not even about "everyone join the HBC", it's about accepting that the sov game is now bigger then what a single alliance can take on. Raiden decided to join the HBC and seem to be better for it, other members of the old SOCO have also learned to adapt (Nulli in particular seem to have bounced back) but some are just stuck in their ways will will probably die because of it.
Avatar
Best big bro we had. Much better then that terrible sponsorship ordeal we faced with sma. If raiden ever needs help and my CEO refuse to help, you can expect me to drop roles
Avatar
"P.anemic Legion"
Avatar
'Nom: "A lot of things, hopefully big things."Said no supercapital-deathballing alliance ever :DMadprops to Raiden's leadership and members for assessing their options rationally and overcoming some (rather justified) stereotypes. Y'all are fun to fly with.
Avatar
"until we're back to our 'old' strength of fighting against ridiculous odds and coming out on top."So, longing to be an elite fighting force once more, free from the shackles of Rifter Warfare??
Avatar
I'm just a regular line TESTie, but I won't lie: when I heard Raiden. was coming to join the HBC I was pretty buttmad. After the dickstomping we got given in Vale I'd resigned Raiden. to the same "Shithead" pile once occupied by Morsus Mihi and White Noise, and now occupied by -A-.I wish I hadn't done that, because since day 1 the guys from Raiden have been fucking awesome. We love having you around and I'm sorry about all those bad things I said about you. Oh seven meights.
Avatar
The real reason is because Raiden is full of risk adverse, dog piling, faggots. Same as the rest of the cfhbc
Avatar
it's almost like the propaganda you get fed is buillshit
Avatar
How does one get backstabbed in a game without honor?Only the naive are susceptible.
Avatar
New Eden isn't as black and white as you think.The propaganda we (Test) were fed was along the lines of, "Guys, Raiden wants to join the party. I know we all have doubts. I have them. Let's see where this goes." No one was offering anyone Kool-Aid, and we were nearly certain we couldn't put up with Raiden's legendary terrible posting.By this time, we had a handle our CFC-leftover frustration with Raiden's Tenal/Venal supercap blobs. Test is PL's Special Needs and Disabilities Alliance, after all.It just happens that Raidenchillbros and Testchillbros get along well. It is probably refreshing not to be judged harshly by allies for once.
Avatar
A question quite like "Why won't they believe us when we tell them we are terrible? - Goons and TEST".
Avatar
Raiden undocks.
Avatar
This is like the Fox News of reporting lately on here (outside of MWO article).Raiden is the Eve equivalent of the Deadman of Europe (if your a history buff you understand that). From Bob who ruled Eve, to IT who plowed PL out of Fountain, to Raiden who killed the Northern Coaltion, to holding a constellation in Querious where they spend all day ratting (check dot lan for 24hr npc for some impressive npc killing), and fielding 60 man fleets when calling alliance CTA's....Raiden is in HBC because the alliance at this point exsists because of friendships and ties between players and corps, and HBC is a safe, low-risk enviroment that they need at the twlight of their play. There is nothing wrong with it, the 'culture of change' they have embraced is just acknowledging their time as a power in eve is over and they should just play to have fun and maintain their friendships till everyone stops playing.\
Avatar
I imagine GSF would find it hilarious.
Avatar
I'm struck by a small item the interviewee said: "If Nulli were in charge..." Well, Nulli now has a group it is in charge of and I'm slightly disappointed Raiden. took the easy way out and joined the HBC rather than continuing to "fight the good fight" and join a 3rd party like N3
Avatar
If TEST started sieging deklien, you would be able to hear every last CFC/GSF member howl with laughter as we finally had a reason to reset TEST.It's the war we've been waiting for, and wanted, for a while now.
Avatar
Y'all, there's hardly any mention of the northern war anywhere in our forums. There typically isn't focused talk about Technetium (other than all these cobalt moons in Delve) or freighter ganking or Vale war spoils or other largely-Goon interestes. Butthurt posts about leaving the CFC and starting a rental program -- read: TEST rents -- ended fairly abruptly after the most recent SOTA, in which Montolio largely pacified raging oldfag / director Dredditors who were taking, at kindest, thinly-veiled snipes at him in the week after Durrhurrdurr leaked eight billion in existing rental agreements.Montolio is a freggin' brilliant fellow, and the TEST horde of ten-thousand autists hang longingly in perfect attention on every word of Shadoo's sultry voice and cool-as-cucumber miltary leadership. We have extensive slash fiction about this.I don't think anyone has any hard feelings for you guys. Vee aside, you don't hear much about Suas or DBRB or the rest of the FC team up there, and Vee is only ever remembered as a benchmark for how fucking amazing Dingo is.If you take anything from this, CFC readers, its that TEST hasn't proverbially called it's mother in awhile. That's natural. Sugar Daddy PL and TEST are enjoying the early days of wedlock, and it's kind of weird to think about your parents in visceral three-ways with and against allies and enemies of the CFC.The largest ~current~ CFC influence we see in our culture is in the form of posts by Inquisitor Kitchener of LAX, and he's currently flamewaring with Penif  on who is the larger pet (side note: both are massive pets). Times change, man. Goonie self-hating, self-destructive faggotry and frigate-ry are rampant as they ever have been in TEST; the apple doesn't fall far from the tree. There simply isn't much (hardly any) cultural mixing between the two anymore.Madprops to CFC readers interested / concerned / proud of their paraplegic stepchildren. Don't think for a moment TEST will ever disown you.
Avatar
I do not believe anyone is denying the importance of the deployment of the CFC at large to Delve/Querious/Period Basis this past summer.Test and the newborn HBC felt very much alone in the dark days of defending the newly acquired regions after the might of the CFC redeployed to the north. Our defensive timers for 49- were treated as wet fleece for our then-temerarious independence test. That system's defense was terrifying for many of TEST's leaders -- it's like it was our one shot to see if we could pull off sov warfare without Goons nearby. Much gnashing of teeth in the darkness.We felt alone, to be sure. Our final station timer op post read like a Hail Mary. Name? "Fight or Die." Montolio was in tears of relief afterwards. You can hear it in his voice weeks later in the fall SOTA as he talks about his days of doubt over 49- and the defense of Delve. He has fought hard to bring us this far, and it's clear he's eaten a *lot* of shit from his peers in the CFC.
Avatar
Everyone of note has past association with dead alliances. Get over yourself and undock once in awhile.As far as joining the HBC, I could theoretically agree with you. Sure, okay, the HBC is a great sea of blues in which to rat and tinker. Whatever. Unless you're Gypsy, this can be healthy after a waterfall of membership changes. I don't think this is denied in the article. If anything, towards the end of the interview, 'Nom talks about rebuilding, implying Raiden is not currently in its prime.In few words, Fox News habitually ignores key content and disclosure in news reporting, allowing them to make implicit accusations and sow little lies that can potentially blossom mutually into a complete misunderstanding of the world. That is not what is happening in this article. That's whatever your alliance chat and what you are spoonfed on EveNews24 is trying to do to you.You're reading an interview. This isn't Mittani Persona A talking with false Mittani Persona B. Throw out your Murdoch-Orwellian tinfoil hattery and take this Raiden leader's words at face value. Don't let commentator spin in EveNews24, Kugu, or your alliance distract you from raw words.
Avatar
Usually, people try to imply Mittani-Montolio conspiracy with an abbreviation that actually makes sense: HBCFC.Cfhbc. Lord, man, get out. At least read the Goon and Test forums your abundant spies make available to you. Get the full picture for yourself.
Avatar
TL:DR We lost all of our SOV, we lost the power of supers/titans. We have given up, so we blued an Alliance that is bigger than goons, but we still hope to fight against the blob someday.
Avatar
Umad bro? Take your ball and go play with TEST. If we weren't able to give into all your demands then your in the right place. Don't be butt hurt about it. :)
Avatar
Lets change it for you "All but Fox News habitually ignores key content and disclosure in news reporting, allowing them to make implicit accusations and sow little lies that can potentially blossom mutually into a complete misunderstanding of the world."But apart from that you understand at least that Raiden are rebuilding.The issue here is very simple, and anyone who has been allies (pets if your not CFC) or renters knows it, you cannot have the renter or main alliance blue with the people who farm your pets and renters for long. It will create issues...
Avatar
When Raiden. were in it's prime we only fielded ~150 man fleets (maybe at a push with super alts logged in too we could get 200 but rarely), Since then we've lost 4 corps and we weren't a 'big' alliance to start with. Raiden was very much in gutter and the HBC were kind enough to give us a home to help rebuild. When we joined the HBC we struggled to get fleets of 20, now we regularly get fleets of 60-80, which is a big step in the right direction and we've only taken on 1 new corp. This improvement in participation is testamony to Raiden.'s slow but steady recovery and us gradually finding our place in the HBC. So to me being able to field 80man fleets, half of the number we could at our prime, when only 3 months ago we could barely fill 2 squads is a massive improvement. As a Raiden. grunt i'm glad we joined HBC and I love our TEST bros.Also on the ratting stats, yeah i'm sure people are ratting, but please don't forget most people in Raiden have at least 3 accounts and some many more, so many people have their ratting alts whilst keeping their combat chars near the staging area.
Avatar
-A- is shit!! Makalu is shit!! Loki fleet concept was shit!!
Avatar
At the time of chosing a new path for RDN, they had on one side HBC roflstomping SoCo, and on the other hand Nulli in FW.Since then, Nulli found its way again (and I'm glad they did, even if they're not blue) first as partner of NCDOT, and later as leader of N3. Probably Raiden would do good even with them.
Avatar
"so we blued an Alliance that is bigger than goons, but we still hope to fight against the blob someday."Oh, the irony.
Avatar
As it turns out, 100 eager Rifter pilots are a lot better than 1 angry Russian and a few terrible, terrible interdictor pilots.Hey makalu :) hows the game nowadays.
Avatar
They complain about being back stabbed yet they where the ones that back stabbed the IT alliance by not helping to defend, sat in there space and built a 100 supers and watch the alliance die without firing a shot. All I can say is Karma is a bitch and go DIAF

Raiden. alliance has had a mixed past. Formed from the remnants of IT Alliance, Raiden. was primarily composed itself of X13 and FinFleet, two of the primary corporations from IT. Since then Raiden. has conquered and lost many regions, as well as lost several corporations due to internal drama. Most recently, Raiden. has switched sides from the Southern Coalition (led by Against ALL Authorities) to the HBC.

I interviewed a Raiden. member named 'Nom (part of their FC team) to better understand the motivations behind their switch to HBC, how it has worked out for them, and what we might expect to see from Raiden. in the future.

Jinli Mei: What motivated Raiden to move over to the HBC?

'Nom: We had enough of Against ALL Authorities — they effectively ensured SOCO’s demise by “taking control” of the military defense of the SOCO... and to be honest, if Nulli were in charge I think we’d still be in Delve, or at least have had a better defense against the HBC invasion.

Other than that, we spent a long time looking at our options. After being backstabbed by Nothern Coalition., no one wanted to go join that party. The CFC was, of course, out of the question for us. No one was up for trying to communicate with more Russians — not just because of the language barrier, there’s a lot more to it than that.

JM: Did Panemic Legion help any with this decision making? I recall Raiden and PL worked with them in the past with some success.

N: There were mixed feelings towards PL, admittedly. We have flown with them in the past, even killed one of our old FC's before joining HBC. Aside from expecting a complete backstab, everyone was keen to use supers with more impunity.

JM: So the HBC was the most likely option at the table or had you all considered doing something else?

N: It was either that or go to Wormhole space, and no one wanted to do that. After effectively being nerfed out of 0.0 sovereignty then backstabbed by pretty much everyone who could backstab us at the time, RDN went through some real tough times, losing corps, members, etc. We saw joining the HBC as the best possible option available to us.

JM: You guys lost X13 in that process, right?

N: Yes, X13 and Ankou were lost initially with Endstation leaving to join AAA, and finally VT-EC joining SC.

JM: A lot of people saw Raiden losing X13 as a major blow to Raiden's force.

N: It did hurt, yes, though not as much as the super/tracking titan did though, that's for sure. X13 has since gone inactive.

JM: Was it an easy switchover between leaving SOCO forces and joining the HBC?

N: Not really, it was a lot easier than we expected. Initially, we expected a lot of people to instantly drop roles and leave, but most — probably 90% of our members — put their trust into our leadership. Our forums had one or two people who were adamantly against the idea, but most people agreed it was the best option available and at the least we could give TEST et. al. a chance.

JM: Has that chance paid off?

N: So far, yes. Joining the HBC has changed a lot of opinions about TEST in particular. RDN is still recovering, there’s no doubt about that, but as it stands for now we are definitely getting back on our feet. Slowly but surely.

JM: Your opinions changed regarding TEST?

N: Yup, going from -A- who think they are 'elite' or even 'good' at EVE whilst being terrible, and switching to the HBC and TEST who are 'bad' or 'god-awful' at EVE but they know that they're terrible and that's okay. Hell, they even have a few competent pilots.

Surprisingly, the culture change has definitely gone a lot better than we thought it would; even Montolio has been surprised it's gone this way. Adding to that, a lot of our membership is pushing for more joined fleets with HBC and better integration for RDN into the HBC.

JM: You guys were worried about a culture clash, but so far the opposite has taken place?

N: Exactly. No one in Raiden could stand the -A- FC's, mostly because they were useless ragey faggots. As for TEST FC's, there are lots of different kinds in there. Of course, Raiden doesn’t mind flying under a PL FC as we have done so many times in the past. But even some of TEST FC's aren’t the type of FC’s you’d expect from them.

The biggest difference about flying with HBC is how utterly chill it is to fly with an FC who couldn't give a flying fuck, in a fleet which equally couldn't give a fuck.

JM: So there's certainly a big change between the two coalitions, and more diversity in the HBC?

N: Definitely, so far it seems good and there are few times when diversity is a bad thing. We're all denizens of the internet after all and we all like to play EVE. As it turns out, 100 eager Rifter pilots are a lot better than 1 angry Russian and a few terrible, terrible interdictor pilots.

Our guys are getting into the swing of things, and we aren't pushing anyone into anything. Raiden’s members are still deciding what groups in TEST they want to join, and joining plenty of fleets that go up... so things are definitely going good on that front

JM: Any ideas of what the future brings to Raiden?

N: A lot of things, hopefully big things. We're still recovering for now and likely will be for a long time until we're back to our 'old' strength of fighting against ridiculous odds and coming out on top.

The game has changed, and we shall do our best to change along with it. For now, we're looking towards better integration with HBC and as always, craving for tasty good fights.

Jinli Mei
Player since 2006, where my experienced flipped from high sec nobody to Capital FC in TEST. I primarily play EVE in the area of capitals, but have experience in logistics and trade. I occasionally write good things and even have a twitter: jinli_mei