Shifting Baselines: Expectations in EVE

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"Who knows, maybe supercarriers will become so commonplace that people will actually be willing to risk them every now and then..."This would be a welcome shift.
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I don't think ccp will let this happen , it would destroy the whole idea of cheap frigate pvp and so on . I guess that CCP will overprice shit in some way to keep it "balanced" I started out in 2008 . That time when fitted Drakes were 30mil and you only had large rigs. I've seen how ccp manages to adapt prices somehow . ( like the recent mineral changes for example ) Having a Supercarrier that is comparable to a Battleship nowadays would destroy the whole game. So I dont think its realistic at all . But other than it was a very good read and your comparisons brought back a lot of my newbie memories :) But we shall see . Maybe I am completly wrong lol.
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I'm eagerly awaiting what is above the Titan, Deathstar? Battlestar? Super dupa carrier?
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In point of fact it wouldn't destroy "cheap frigate pvp" simply because those that partake in this activity already do so willingly already. Opponents you would take the frigates against wont change dramatically.Those who desire the activity will do it that is the point of the sandbox.
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tl;dr: time passes.(Jokes aside, nice article.)
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Spacehulk
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As a new player with very little SP its a very disheartening realization, that by the time i get into lets say a carrier it will have shifted to why don't you have a supercarrier etc.
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Don't worry about it. There will always be people above and below you on the ladder. If you really want at that point just buy a character off the character bazaar that can fly what you desire.
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"Though the CFC has not flown it much, I expect we will be seeing their Tengu fleet more frequently in the future.""(the HML nerf will likely lower the number of Tengu fleets)"So the CFC are too stupid to understand the nerfs and will keep using outdated doctrines? What?
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or really smart cause tangus will most likely cheaper after the nurf...
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Money isn't an issue for the CFC.
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From my experience, you will never ever stop having that feeling. It will go from "why don't you have ship x?" to "why don't you have shill x trained to 5" to "doctrine change! Why don't you have ship y?" etc. I've been playing for seven years and people who have been playing even longer than that share the same view.That said, new skills and new ship classes are being introduced at a decreased rate, so if that trend continues, who knows?
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Additionally, there will always be roles that can be filled with lower skilled pilots. I have never heard an alliance turning away intercepter, interdictor, or heavy interdictor pilots. The same is true for scouts, bombers, logi, and ewar pilots. sure you may not be able to fly a t2 gunned battle ship, but that fleet of battleships is useless if they can't hold a fleet down.
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CFC fights with numbers. With enough numbers, you can make a cruise missile raven fleet work. The deciding factor is being able to get everyone flying ships that have capabilities the FC can predict and rely upon. Money has very little bearing on most big alliances/coalitions in Eve.As for tengus, pretty much every single pilot in the CFC can fly a drake. The training to go from flying a drake well to flying a tengu well is minimal compared to switching to say, armor tanked lokis.
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But tengufleet and drakefleet are being phased out with the nerfs, so the CFC is moving elsewhere for its doctrinal action. The CFC have new plans for newbies that involve staying away from drakes and making more money ratting whilst also getting into doctrine ships. So my contention is that "we will be seeing their Tengu fleet more frequently in the future" is completely wrong.
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Tyrannid Hive
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Or, you know, CCP could rebalance T1 ships and nerf T3s so that things are a little more balanced and the biggest difference between newer and older players is the number of different races they can fly.Of course you're not wrong in your point about shifting baselines - I just dont see it as a game breaking problem. Eve had and continues to have a role for new pilots even in the biggest fleets because RifterBro tacklers really are essential. And even veterans with 100k skillpoints who try wormholes for the first time have a ton of stuff to learn.Yes, I have a supercap, I have a few billion ISK, I have alts. I still get great fun out of flying in a coalition where some corps have members who can only fly frigates.
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It's not actually as bad as everyone preaches. A 15% Rage nerf (around 10km off the 84km the Drake already has) with a set 25% Damage bonus from the revamped T2 Missiles. I don't think Drake/Tengu fleets will be phased out, I believe they will remain as they are currently, which is common place.
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The most important thing about this game is the fun we have playing it. While base lines may shift, newer players don't need to be concerned. This is because solo frigate combat is as much fun as any other pursuit in the game and large fleet fights involving capitals and sub-capitals will always need noobs in hero tackle frigates.
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This is the truth, dont be dis heartened at all, Eve always needs Tackle/Support.Think man there would be no SC`s killed without Dictors/Hictors. Never would a Rokh fleet be able to wipe out a Ahac fleet without Huggins etc etc.On the gang Level Tacklers are so-so important that when I call a gang or roam I usually use my best tacklers as in the ones who have put in hours and are the smartest and fastest, this means they get on 90% of the kills where alot of guys in Gangs will miss expensive easy kills simply because a group of Cynabal`s etc will kill the target faster than the 2-4 guys who brought Nano Nado`s etc.Eve will always need Tackle [Esp for supers] Logi [which any good gang will let you have a gun to whore mails, or a drone to assign to the fastest locker [Inty] in the pack so you dont miss any kills.
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Take heart - the difference between a well trained 10m or even 5m SP pilot and a well trained 100m SP pilot is only that the 100m SP pilot can fly more ships. But for any given ship he's in, the majority (sometimes the vast majority) of his skillpoints are useless. :)
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IMO the time where everyone having a super is already here. I am a 7 year old player as well and TBH there never should have been this many supers in the game, we never thought that 1500 Titans would have been made, its extra ordinary, The writer is talking about people risking Supers but in reality they are risking hem now, hell guys are Mining in Titans, if you told guys in BoB old guard GSF that a careless Mining Titan would be around in 5 years they would have laughed in your face.We are in the future already IMO. The only way for Eve to survive and keep surviving is to open up entire new races, and keep going with T2 Caps, T3 Everything and really make a ship for every niche in the game so that this "Only big ship, is good ship idea" fades. And just like the Drake is used for newer players so would be the T1 Carriers Dreads, meaning people would use these similar to now where they will sacrifice alot of them for an objective, except this really would be commonplace to see fleets of T1 Carriers Welped, they already allowed to many SC`s into the game and didnt stop the supercharged influx of Tec and other stuff from 08 till now, basically you cant un-ring the bell.They are just now making it harder to get an SC, they should have made it harder 2-3 years ago IMO so that instead of every rich carebear owning an SC and counting as a asset, they needed to make the skill training, and building of them extremely harder, then they never would have had to hammer them with the nerf bat, they were nerfe`d because to many exist IMO, and it was coming down to who ever had most won all, but if they would have kept say 1/8th of the current count we would still be running mostly Cap only fleets.CCP failed IMO, in stopping there numbers growing so much, during a time where the Tech and moons before were clearly broken. All sides got way to many SC`s from these Tec moons and it just made every Alliance leader and most Corp leaders get a Titan and most directors got SC`s from a ISK Faucet. Or from the broken SOV mechanics where a group like AAA was able to BOT while acting like they were "Renting space"Late 2008 Early 2009 IMO was perfect number of SC`s, groups that were truly focused on them like Cry Havoc, PL etc were still to small in number not to be blobbed by subcaps this made them not the ultimate weapon only a boon to there small Alliances but now numbers is king and SC`s are easily gotten by Tec and Other means now its just a matter of time before everyone has one and unless Eve changes somehow alot im afraid for it.,So at that time in 2008 if they would have made them 100x harder to get after that it would have been perfect, Problem with SC`s is once you have one where do you go from there? And once numbers like a group like Test for instance becomes old enough to own SC`s where does it stop? Answer is it doesnt, it turns into how many Newbs can we make fighters and how many previous newbs can we put in SC`s, somethings got to change or Eve is in trouble.At some point a person like me who has 7 years in has no more advantage as a person with 4 years, with the current amount of ships both can fly anything pretty much in game. So since they didnt think this through that far ahead, they will need to come out with a ton more ships to keep the older guys into the game, otherwise 3 years of playing Eve with basically the same skills you had is along time to get bored finally and leave for good.
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Drakes get nerfed pretty badly, but the things that made the Tengu good will remain (low sig, high HP, long range, decent damage).
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They ARE rebalancing T1 ships, and T3s are fine apart from boosting, which is getting nerfed (at the same time as command ships getting buffed).
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I will be honest most of your post isn't yet coherent to me. A brief list of abbreviations that are completely foreign. SC, Hictor, Rokh fleet, Ahac, Nano Nado. The plan right now is to lose 100 slashers tackling and go from there.The skill point mini game of this game is probably the worst i dread every time i have to pick a new skill. But smile every time my ship explodes. Maybe i am doing it wrong but from what i can tell in eve if your having fun with corp mates you can't be doing it wrong.
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Not only that, but tackle is always needed no matter how many skillpoints other people have. If you can't tackle a ship in your battleship gang, you can't kill anything that doesn't want to engage you. One of the key skills in EVE is getting somebody who doesn't want to fight you for whatever reason (eg your gang is stronger, or they're just passing through) to hold still while you shoot them while avoiding being held down by anybody who will smash you.Newbies in tackle Rifters can make that happen, and only slightly higher SP after that is interceptors then interdictors. I actually fly a Sabre more than anything else these days, even though I can fly dreads/carriers/T2 fit battleships etc. They're not just needed, they're a hell of a lot of fun.
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To give a brief counterpoint, there are almost always T1 ships to fly that fit in well with any fleet comp in Eve. I understand that this does depend on what alliance you are in, but even so. I have been playing Eve for about 7 months, I can fly every T1 combat hull in the game and fit them with T1 weapons/T2 tank. On the other hand, this same char has no T2 hulls that it can fly. Its a tradeoff, and not everyone wants to have alts to fly the shiny ships. I do occasionally hear the 'why don't you have <skill> trained to X", but that seems to lessen with time.
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SC = Supercarrier, Hictor = Heavy Interdictor, Rokh... is a Rokh, Ahac = Armour Heavy Assault Ship, Nano Nado = Tornado with nano hull upgrades for align time and speed.I never said anything about losing ships or having fun (you do that however you want in eve), just that doctrines were progressively evolving.
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Well if you really wanted to fit in to fleet comps, T2 interceptors only take a few weeks to train. Generally fleet comps are interested in the T2 hulls (because of survivability, like the omen vs Zealot), but are more lenient with T2 guns due to the long training time.There are generally always ships that anyone can fly with a little training time that will fit in fleets: ceptors/dictors/bombers. It's more a question of training the larger and more skill-intensive fits.
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There are so many things wrong about this post, I don't even know where to start.
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CCP have already said that they used to think that price was a balancing tool, but then they realised as the game continues what was once rare becomes uncommon, and what was uncommon becomes common.They can't do much about it now other then tweak the roles of those ships on then fly. I personally still think there's a lot of things they could do with new types of capital ships though.
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Aren't shifting baselines part of what keeps these long-term players coming back?
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Thanks Barnsy for interpreting. Everytime you see a lone dead Super Carrier or Titan Denegrath a special tackler is used one is in destroyer form and lays bubbles, one is in heavy cruiser form with a massive tank and either the ship emits a bubble that traps the other massive ship or it uses whats called an infinite point, meaning it can target that mothership.Titan and lock him from warping or jumping.My point was, those guys are some of the mos respected guys in Eve bar non, even more so than SC pilots, and when you get good ones like Pandemic legion and NCDOT have you wind up killing alot of Supercapitals, because the skill of these pilots to sometimes stay alive 30+minutes until there fleet can get there, yes they usually die but 1 200 mil ship versus a 20 billion or 90 billion Titan is well worth it, and if you show repeated talent doing it any Corp/Alliance in the entire game will want you badly.Now imagine a very heavy tanked Assault Frig that acts like a Heavy tackler, here is another ship who can be sooooo very useful in gangs while not dying all the time. And once you get better you use a smaller faster ship to do the same but get insta locks.Lastly Recons are always needed to take and hold smaller but very powerful ships like a T3 Loki,Proteus,Tengu,Legion and make there Signature bloom so that your team of BS`s can actually hit them. If not for them, the BS fleet would get ripped to pieces.So there is always a ship that supports but gets tons of respect and kills. So really dont get discouraged. Also guys look at Motherships Titans and of course wnat them but you need to think, you need a second account always, and you are always making sure its safe and cloaked before log off. It really is a pain in the ass. And requires a Total devotion to the game alot of younger/ or retired or layed off guys have, but really its not all as glamorous as it seems, since the Nerf SC`sare no longer equal to Titans, but different type of dmg [One Alpha/One DPS] now they are strictly Cap killers and cant use any other drones and hitpoints cut inhalf.They arent as glorious as you think, IMO Subcap fighting and Capitals [not Supers] are still by far the mos fun. And when they do T2 Carriers, T3 BS`s [Modular] it will get more exciting for us EFT warriors.
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What ever, I disagree. He is right in most cases by far. CCP should have slowed SC`s along time ago or not at all, why now? He was right They allowed SC proliferation to occur when Tec was most broken and was so for years, and before they got a handle on botting.Maybe its you who doesnt know as much as you think.And with answers like "So many things wrong I dont even know where to start" usually means you dont like what he said but cant argue wit his points.His point is just like what Kitchnner said they messed up before and now cannot go back and fix what has already happened.
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Yeah I bet money you, are about to get a SC and dont have much EXP at all in one, if any.Next I bet you think you know alot because you have close friends with SC`s.I have had my first SC in 08, and Titan and 2nd SC in 2011, then sold em off before SC nerf.How long have you played this game, please be honest.
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Dont forget logis. The only people that id probably respect more than dictors are logis.
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Agree T3 ships are fine the only thing i wish for in them is they moved the rigs over to a submodule so i don't have to have multiple T3 ships one/objective instead i can have one i refit for its purpoes. but thats something on the wishlist only.so lets look at the T3 ships compared to the BS equivalence.T3 ships is built around speed tanking, low signature with high dps they don't have a drone bay (proteus can but normaly don't have). a T3 ship thats get double or tripple webbed is "dead"if you die in your T3 ship you lose skillpoints......a T2 fitted T3 ship is worth around 500-600m a T2 fitted Battleship is worth around 300-400m the dps between them is neglectable the effective tanks is neglectable due to one tanks less but got speed so its hit less, while other can tank more but is hit more often.conclution T3 ships are fine when you don't calculate boosting on them. and that changes will rock once they are done.only ship i feel will get realy hard hit with the boosting changes is the Rorqual and im hoping it get to use its boosting capabilities offgrid for the mining links.
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Price is not a balancing tool. That dead horse has been flogged plenty of times. If anything this whole article is based on the principle that isk is not an issue in this game.No one disagrees that there are likely too many supers in the game, but adding more skills or isk to own one only increases the time until you get one, not the overall number.
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So you had your first SC in 08 and wish it would have been harder to get SCs after that point.You see, Eve is not really about who has the most ingame skills or money. It's about what you do with it. Hint: Get out of that SC and into fun ships.
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Noob, I salute you!Keep losing Slashers, get into a Stiletto and a Sabre, keep skilling and specializing, advance to Recons when you feel ready. Learning to fly the ship in space is far more important than skilltraining. Learning the game and it's various mechanics and tactics can be done in a T1 ship.
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As long as the Drake isn't using T2 heavies, it's not all THAT bad...but with T2 heavies, your range goes down to ~30km. Since most of the time faction ammo is used anyways, the damage and range nerf are manageable, but we'll continue to complain about it.
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As a person who has been in several coalitions both in the south and now in the north, I believe that this phenomena can also be tied back to increasingly effective reimbursement and ship replacement programs. Training for a strategic cruiser is skill intensive but not much more than a fully t2 fit battleship. If someone can afford a ship that costs around 2 fully fit battleships to purchase and can have its loss completely reimbursed after its loss it increases the ability of any "space poor" player to enjoy flying these expensive but effective ships in fleet combat
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Turning mining into plexing alternative - with scanning , risk involved (maybe shooting stuff , maybe solving some riddle like mechanics that cant be used by a computer - earning alot of minerals at a rare chance) PLUS removing blueprint originals (limit them to 10-50(ships) 1000-10000(modules) and say afterwards they leave a relic of a blueprint - will reduce both t2 on the market - t2 is now "standart" module with few exeptional meta 4 items.Faction fit is rare , but its not that rare as it should be to catch people in full officer fits too.This way manifacturing will actually be back in the game instead of couple hundred wealthy people spamming markets with limitless items. Revamp of t1 frigates/destro/cruisers will be helpfull as those usefull again will turn them in an alternative to the usual t2 fleets nowdays.
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Carriers are always going to be super useful and worth the training time, don't sweat it m8
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Logi are the guys that decide who will live or die in almost any particular engagement where fleets actually fight (slaughter 10vs1 do not count). So logi are not only the most important part of the game - they make the game possible. They are the middle fighters , somewere there they are doing their job , if they stop doing it - ships gets blown.
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As someone with over 80 million skill points, but not huge amounts of ISK, the most frustrating thing is not wanting to fly some of the smaller, fun ships, such as dictors, or tackle, due to the stupid clone costs. When being podded costs more than the ship you just lost, something is wrong. It's no wonder that high-SP pilots tend to gravitate towards caps and shiny ships.
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I don't know Seems like there is a high emphasis put on Logi but plenty of fights happen with no logi on either side. Seems like they are just another piece in the machine. One that can actually be removed. Without tackle there isn't a fight, or people can warp off and repair at leisure. Without Damage Nothing blows up. All other components seem to be able to be excluded but when added multiply your effectiveness. Add in logi now your tougher, Add in Ewar now your even stronger. Add in an FC now you can look like a well oiled killing machine prepared to eat less organized and less prepared fleets.But without the first two you have a bunch of ships orbiting each other. So it seems to me Damage and tackle are the most important, and maybe Logi is third on that list. I don't know i am usually dead before logi hits the field anyway.
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"More recently, we're seeing strategic cruiser fleets becoming more common"tengu fleets have been around for how long now? year and a half? they're not more common. they're becoming nigh-ubiquitous.
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Because they are the Unsung heroes of Eve.Its like how in real life, Soldiers keep you probably more safe than Fireman but Fireman are all looked at as Heroes. Soldiers in someplaces are but around the world from what I have seen [Since I ma soldier] we arent loved around the world.Fireman/Paramedics are.Logistics cruisers are Eve`s Paramedics/Doctors without them the other team wins, because the other team can Repair there ships faster on the fly.The reason groups like Pandemic Legion and NCDOT are so great and Cry Havoc before them is there tight knitgroup of Logi pilots who regularly do it, they train together and Almost alwaysare the same guys running those ships, so where they might not get as many kills they get credited within the Alliance for winning battles where they were simply outgunned and outnumbered in a major way.i remember a battle in Cry Havoc where we fought NC 4:1 [80 to 375] and we not only beat them but chased them back to X70 and killed 300+ Ships, we lost 15, but normally that is sheer death with 4:1 odds, we had 20 out of 80 ships being logistics, and they were the best Logi pilots in the game, so good I got spoiled and never really learned myself how to be a "Great logi player"Ask guys in great alliances they will always answer, "We won because our logi"No it has moved 1 step higher into Carriers as logi but for the most part pick Guardian or Scimmi and you are set.Guardian for ArmorScimmi for ShieldsThen a great roaming ship to use is anything Minni :) Vagabond,Stabber Fleet, Cynabal etcDo alittle research and realize what you want to do in Eve but as a broad statement, everyone loves Bubblers Interdictors both light and heavy and Logistics, if you master those 2 you will always be wanted.Like I said you count hold down a Super Carrier or Titan without a Interdictor and no small gang should be without one, and in Fleets they are used like crazy En Masse.And Every ship needs a doctor, hats where Logi comes in.So if you always wannabe useful known as a teamplayer.Light Tackle>Bubbler/Dictor>Simple T3 BC of your choice or a Roaming ship from there>Logistics, shield or Armor your choice.Without making you a skill plan its about best advice I can give you, good luck, and as much as I hate it, Test, Goonswarm are great places for young pilots, but now also we have Nexus Fleet who are taking on youngins, maybe one day we [NCDOT] can blob Goons :) lol
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Dont believe logi isnt crucial....its a lie.All of us differ on tons of view points, I am a true to the bone bitter vet NCDOT`er who hates blobs and thinks numbers need to be taxed somehow just like any other weapon, most on here are Goons/CFC who use the very same tactics of numbers I speak on and we argue constantly whats right, but we will never argue about Logi being the Key to a successful fleet.Maybe you dont see as many on KillBoards in fights but dont assume they arent there, they simply arent getting kills doing there jobs.Just think smply who wins side with 50 Battleships or side with 40 Battleships and 10 Logi pilots?Its simple, everytime our BS`s with Logi support get into critical zones they all focus 10 Reps on the target, and he might [probably die] But guess what, it took how much time to kill him? Mean while the 40 BS`s have killed 4 of the enemy.Now its 39 vs 46 BS`s now it takes 46 BS`s a bit longer to kill there next so they lose 6 BS`s while the logi side loses 1.Now its 38 vs 40 BS`s and one side has reps and the other doesnt, from there it will be a slaughter, and once the one side with no reps gets to 25 the 10 logi can hold them off forever.So do you think its just 1 piece that you can remove now? Remember as well the more Logi the exponential power you get, not just from Shields/Armor but also they transfer much needed capacitor for the BS`s hardeners and guns etcGood Logi and No Logi is difference between victory and slaughter, its why alot of times Hacs= Heavy Cruisers usually with high DPS but great tracking as well will defeat Battleships, they can kill the BS fleets Logistics right away and leave them with no repairing or cap support.Watch tournaments also it wil help you understand logi alot better to see a ship on the brink of death then the Logi pilot switch to him and bam he`s all the way back in the fight.
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Maybe you should have fucked with the game a little less or aimed for re-balancing while in CSM. There is little future to Eve with the current trends. There are little to no new players and the ones sick of getting messed with and do not want their only option to join a supper alliance are quitting
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CFC could try to use HML Tengu`s and get cut to ribbons, they no longer will pump out 500 DPS@100km while going 1400m/s orbiting anchor. Nope they will be doing, 400 DPS like a Drake@ 80km, this still seems like a good ship until you realize that brings you that much Closer to the counter ship...The Napoc/Apoc and no longer will it be hitting them in a higher Falloff, it will be adding 20% tracking to them and giving aalot more buffer for Logi`s etc to help the tacklers get even closer to support.Thats the true problem is the range nerf. Also now you cant seemlesly call midsized to large targets you have to swap missiles and suffer what amounts to 2 volleys every change, so say you are fighting Large BS`s you will need every ounce of DPS you can get and load Fury`s to hit the BS`s, then a Ahac fleet comes along . the FC wil basically need to swapp to tracking T2 missiles for Ahacs, then if the enemy is smart they will always split there forces into 2 teams from then on, and not only will range be killed but DPS lowered and as I said range.Effectively Tengu`s were mainstay fleets used with Drakes now that possibility is gone, Drake simply doesnt have the Tank, has massive size and not enough range for using T2 missiles.Guys like NCDOT+PL will simply use BS`s/T3BC`s and Ahacs with 1 wing of bombers and warp them in and out killing a tengu every warp in and bam the poor Tengu FC will be calling to swapp ammo`s every30 secs wasting 1/4 of the true DPS/DPM, or you simply load Caldari Navy Scourge and prey it works well enough, So now knowing if your gonna fight a Tengu/Drake fleet all you really need is to Make your ships 90%+ Kin resist, make sure your tackle does the same this will double all your ships EHP, all while using differing fleet concepts.The days of CFC calling 25 Alli`s to bring the Drake Army is over because, teams like PL/NCDOT/Nulli Could bring Abby`s for Nulli say [and now that Drakes range will be 50km they can actually fight that] then NCDOT comes in with BadHacs keeping 300 DPS@80km and like I said when you see the enemy reloading you simply warp off and bam they are stuck with the tracking missiles vs BS`s, then when FC realizes he simply needs more DPS Hacs will come back in.We have alot of guys saying "They arent really nerfing DMG just making sure you use the right missiles" But that would be true if Missiles like Lasers were insta swap....They arent, hell swapping out a HUGE SLOW T2 Fury to hit a Scimmi is retarded, so just swapping back and fourth to targets that have full locks and reps on to a smaller target who doesnt will be a pain.So until they make Missiles insta swapp this really really hurts Missile boats in fleet.My Only hope since I love the Tengu is the HAMGU I have been using and even ratting with for years will become better, but can you actually engage a Napoc/Abby/Mael with Webbers+Painters@ 45km [to be safe so as the missile wont run out of fuel, 3km is wasted just accelerating] Answer is CR BS`s dominate, but maybe just maybe this wil bring back CR BS`s, hell with Phoon changes and them all getting similiar EHP/DPS/Speed specs or different but equal this could turn the Close Range boat back into existence in major fleets.
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One more wall of text from my buddy but he is absolutely right.Swapping the T2/Fury for killing BS`s T2 Tracking to kill ABing Hacs/Logi`s/Recons and using Cal Navy Normal Missiles for killing stuff at range or stuff thats like Canes will be a workout for sure on a Missile Pilot.I think if they really fixed Torp`s and Cruises not just for Ravens [SLow boats suck at being CR only esp when theres no falloff its just pow ended] They would make Ravens actual beasts again. To me the Raven should be the killer of all BS`s upclose, sorry but even to Gal ships. It should be able to apply 1250 DPS vs a 450 Sig boat moving 108 speed. This would make it worth it to load 20 Suicide Ravens while in a fleet, and launch them right into the middle of say an APOC/NAPOC fleet to help break the tank of a ship thats unbreakable.Hell the ravens tank sucks ass it has 1 to many low`s and not enough grid or CPU to do anything with nueting up high, it literally needs that 5th low to use for a powermod just to add a Nuet. IT NEEDS A MAJOR OVERHAUL.Next Cruises are so damned slow and useless they need to beat the Alpha of Maels on ships BC and larger, this would ensure they couldnt kill smaller ships at range because the ship can warp before the slow things approaches and because its tracking simply cant kill small things. But Drake or above it needs 15k Alpha, sounds funny but Maels have 40k more tank and way way more DMG potential and HUGE Falloff in both ACS and Arty.Also please let us have a dread that can actually become a tracking Dread, or f you dont and you make it the only dread that cant Blap BS`s, you better give it 1/4 more DMG to Structures and SC`s and Titans, because Eve is supposed to be balanced and the only thing thats scared of a Cald Dread is a POS.They really need to fix missiles, Now that HML`s are gone they basically as a whole will suck ass again, and Im a big missile fan, have been since 05. Shit make them harder to fly not just F1 boats but please make them relevant to Eve, Its only Arty-Rails-Lasers now thats it, esp since HML`s are going.So I agree
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Rifters are shit though.
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I really dont know about ncdot or goons or even really care. your argument kinda just proves my point Logi are just a force multiplier. Replace your 10 logi pilots with one FC and 9 battleships and it still beats that 50 BS with no FC fleet. Or 10 ewar pilots. They are multipliers without something to multiply they are useless and can be removed from the equation. 0 times 10 is still 0.

At one stage during all our EVE careers we started out as nobodies, completely ignorant to anything that was going on and just trying to figure out how to work the stupid UI. Getting that first cruiser felt like you could take on the rest of the universe, that sense of elation dissappearing with the first battleship you encountered. Same goes with getting to that magical 1million ISK mark, the 100 mill, and the 1 bil. You felt rich in every one of those moments, and realised how poor you were a few months later when you hit that next level.

Eventually most of us get to a point where we have a few alts, have a few tens of billions (if not hundreds), more ships than we can shake a stick at, and maybe a supercapital. Anyone far from your current level seems inexperienced, poor and generally useless by comparison. Meanwhile any noob starting out will see the massive hill they must climb before getting anywhere near the richer and more skilled among us (this also includes flying skills). As Einstein would say, relativity's a bitch (I'm paraphrasing here).

SHIFTING BASELINES

This is a term that's been coined mostly to discuss our changing frame of reference relative to fish stocks (what your average angler might think is a lot of fish might be very little for someone 100 years ago), but it can be applied to many, many things. Take your average life expectancy for example: 100 years ago people would have called you crazy for expecting to live well past your eighties. Due to the slow-changing reference point, you're largely unaware that this expectation is very different to that in our past. This also applies to wealth, technology etc., and it very much applies to EVE.

In my current alliance we're expected to be able to fly two different logistics ships and around six different combat ships (as well as actually own them). This isn't even considering the capital/command ships that are desired, and that (ideally) everyone should have a supercarrier. Go back to the early days of EVE and these would have been rather silly demands (as if someone can fly all those ships hahaha).  Yet that shift in reference point has slowly happened.

More recently, we're seeing strategic cruiser fleets becoming more common (Loki fleet: -A-/Solar, Tengu: Ev0ke/-A-/CFC). Though the CFC has not flown it much, I expect we will be seeing their Tengu fleet more frequently in the future. This is worrying in that the CFC has generally prided itself in deploying easy-to-fly fleets, when it is becoming clear that their doctrine ships are becoming more skill-intensive and expensive (Rokhs and sentry carriers have made a more recent addition). Strategic cruisers are the most expensive and most skill-intensive cruisers in the game, the players that fly them can only go on to more expensive and skill intensive ships. Although these ships will likely be nerfed in a coming expansion (the HML nerf will likely lower the number of Tengu fleets), the problem of shifting baselines still stands.

THE FUTURE

What will our reference point be in the future? A year from now? Five? If owning a carrier is desired now, will owning a supercarrier be the average in a few years? Will we be seeing most alliances in fleets of strategic cruisers? Will 1 billion ISK seem as trivial as 1 million does for most of us? It's difficult to predict accurately. What we can be sure of is that there will be more accounts with more skillpoints and more ISK than ever before, with the potential consequences that may entail. Who knows, maybe supercarriers will become so commonplace that people will actually be willing to risk them every now and then...

[name_1]
Member of Nulli Secunda. Have been playing Eve for close to four years, already hit by bittervet syndrome. I've played a number of games over the years and generally dab in every game that's fun.