A Review of Battlecruiser Tiericide

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More autocannon boat hate. Not a fan of this theme.
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That new gallentean drone philosophy you speak of sounds like a nerf to me. Drones being drones, they get shot or smartbombed and then the ship is neutered. I thought the Gallente were the drone race, but I don't see this happening in real combat with no meaningful room for spares.
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You should know buy now, cross train ftw.
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But hey, now I can be hated for flying a double LASB Cyclone, throwing HAMS and drones in your direction.
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It's generally considered that mixed guns and split weapon layouts are bad things yet CCP keeps pushing the drone equivalent to that with their weird drone bandwidths an gun bonuses on drone boats.More like Gila-ente are the drone race.
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oh god the cyclone . this gives me as a missile scrub a huge boner. Caint wait to HAM - ASB some mofos.
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Even in a max DPS fit with perfect skills it's still going to be topping out well under 700 dps, with equal to or less tank than every other BC besides T3's
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Yeah, no room for autocannon kiting in the battlecruiser world apparently :/
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Gallente aren't allowed to be good, it's against the rules.
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"a nice boost to nobility" \o/
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Im sorry I think you missed the most Obvious change... The Prophecy is now a mini-slowcat ..4 launchers is nice , but really its dronebay and its EHP are what is going to make it shine ... and Im sorry, Myrm is now a pile of trash, such a small dronebay , makes it just a sad panda ship
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It will still suffer from what made Elo's Fastcats (Ishtars) vulnerable, firewall will be able to kill enough drones fast enough to limit any large scale fleet viability.Myrm will be fine, getting the drone bandwith buff will give it more DPS, and otherwise it will be flown the same way as it is now.
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You underestimate the power of the dual XL-ASB combined with the shield boost bonus.
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Yay Ferox and Myrm are getting some love.
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The Myrm is the mini slowcat being able to use sentries. The Prophecy being only able to field light and medium drone will be limited to solo or small gang fight where there are no bombs to kill drones.
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What is he saying? The Brutix has always been a noble ship!Very nice article btw.
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Interesting to say the least. Looking forward to these changes!
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^this . the cyclone is a ship to outlast , not out DPS.
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I tend to fly Gallente droneboats like Pilgrims: Neuts, Drones, pray. Well, at least we have damage mods for drones now. The Vexor puts out over 500 dps from drones only (if you succeed to apply them).
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The Ferox is often under rated even in it's current state. When we brought them in AT X against Perihellion and their classic Minnie Rush setup the announcers prematurely declared Peri the winners. Soon you were looking at a total hell death delivered by a rag tag bunch of Ferox pilots. The Ferox is an outstanding blaster platform and can be quite hard to kill fitting ASB's and the dps is just sick 600+ fitting blasters with max skills. Of course as the author smartly points out, it is not capable of the speed required for tackling faster targets. Don't lose faith in the Ferox was our saying during tourny practices!! I still haven't and never will :)
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While Im happy to see some of the bcs getting a much needed makeover, I'm more wary about others. Its like watching someone trying to trim a hedge and never getting it quite level. Im worried that theyre just gonna end up with a bunch of dead twigs at ankle height. The Drake is the obvious example here. Starting out way ahead of the others, its endured a long string of nerfs on all fronts. And now, rather than reworking it, I feel they just lop yet another bit off the top. I bet we've not seen the last of the drake nerfs.tldr: waaah nerfs.
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Can be hated more now by flying ec-600's
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Slowcats use sentries to avoid firewalls. Problem with Ishtars in this case is the limited mobility with those pesky sentries.
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Not much mention of the whole intended role of the BC as a babby's first command ship.
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I remember that match, and I remember giving them the premature victory too. I was rather surprised when I took to EFT and set it up.The tackling problem isn't the speed though, it's that you have so few midslots already that you can't do much other than tank them. I suppose you could drop the tracking computer from the setup I mentioned and fit a point OR a web though,
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I have literally the worst editor. :(
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Don't get me wrong, it is a little questionable, yes. But it's what CCP has been pushing. Amarr get the endless swarm of less powerful drones, while Gallente can field larger drones, but get fewer spares.
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pilgrim isnt gallente its amarr
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So?
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The literal fuck, does the author of this even play EvE? As if so, kindly quit.
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Considering half of the BCs lose their spare highs, CCP's gonna have trouble convincing people to use them that way. :(
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Balancing is one thing, but what is the point of drakes and canes anymore?
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No that's not how it works. When you're in an Ishtar fleet you are very mobile. You have two drone link augmentors and can stray very far from where you actually dropped your sentries while you kite the enemy fleet. What M1k3y is talking about is using firewall ships to clear out the ball of drones (using smartbombs.) You also see bombers used for this against slowcat fleets, but to less effect since they have a massive number space for sentries. He's not talking about 'stopping' the sentries damage using firewalls, like you'd see against drakefleets etc, but instead to kill the drones entirely.
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Mynnna redeems himself with a great article, and a good indepth analysis. Incidentally, i agree on most conclusions drawn ;).The only i have to add is that it feels like a mindful attempt from CCP's side to make all current Tier 2 BC into 30-50km bricks, with the Myrm shining above and possibly the Drake still remaining functional up to short-of-100km meta with some fitting shifts. While Harbs and Canes may be getting short-sticked with that, it definately feels like a design choice meant for all those ships, albeit a poor choice.
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"The Tier 3 battlecruisers form the "Attack" class and will not be changed."Do you have a source for this? I know it's not stated in the Dev Blog, so I'm intruigued on how you gathered this information. I wouldn't be surprised if CCP Fozzie nerfed the T3 Battlecruisers.
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I dunno. Just fit a link and a civilian gun and then max tank if you're the fc. I can see that working for the cyclone and prophecy.
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Unfortunately I don't remember where I read that, and I won't dig for it, but I'd seen it stated somewhere that the Tier 3 BCs wouldn't be significantly changed, if at all. So, I think that assertion is legit.
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Gallente BCs also have more Hull then Armour, yet have an armour rep bonus.Gallente trolled by CCP yet again.
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You are bad at eve sir and he wishes you to know that
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Second line of the post: "Hi everyone! Welcome to our first ship balance thread of 2013! Today we've got a set of battlecruisers for you, the former Tier 1 and Tier 2 BCs, re-branded Combat Battlecruisers." And later down the page, "We'll be following the same general idea as previous tiericide classes, except that the former Tier 3 BCs will continue to require more minerals than the Combat BCs due to their role and use of large turrets."So maybe it's a premature conclusion, but they're certainly not getting changed right now. They're new enough to have been designed with tiericide in mind anyway, so changes seem unlikely.
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he flies gallente drone boats such as myrmidons like he flies pilgrims.
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I don't like that both gallente ships have the 7.5% bonus to active tanking still. i think 1 of the 2 should be something else, like armor points or resists or something. turn one of them into a bit of a brick with skill level.
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Thanks! :)
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The Myrm will actually be a somewhat useful ratting ship for a newish player. In an Angel space setup I would have 393DPS using sentries. Unfortunately I can't seem to make this perma-rep cap stable :( The idea would be to set an orbit and kite the damage - blast any frigs or cruisers that get too close. Slow, but cheap.
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OH GOD THEY CHANGED IT ITS POINTLESS....doesn't matter that its been top tier for years now and that they may want to give some other BC's some time at the top...sky is falling world is over ships are useless.Only they're not really useless you're just blowing it ridiculously out of proportion.
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Some of this shit looks a bit wonky but it's only the first effort. I trust in CCP Fozzie, the white piece of shit.
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propehcy is a at bird. boost is good, but lord does it need a model make-over.
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It has finally come. The day the Minmatars fire more missiles than autocannons.
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You Sir, are an idiot, and you have taken the opportunity to demonstrate it to the rest of us.1. Mynna has shown he knows his way around eve, though I'm not a big fan of how.2. If you come out with these grandiose statement, care to back it up with something? anything?BTW, he's the next chair of CSM, so get used to it.
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RIP HURRICANE
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It seems odd to compare the damage of 4 ogre II to 5 hammerhead II, the maximum damage potential of the current myrmidon is 2 ogre 2 hammerhead 1 hobgoblin, which is 315 dps, making the damage difference 65 dps in drone damage. The total damage difference including turret damage is 30-35 dps increase with the new design.The extra bandwidth is a great bonus to sentry drones, but it's not really a buff to standard drones. The drone bay only has room for 4 heavy, 5 medium and 5 light, not having room for spare drones is not optimal with the new ai. Besides if you know you are going to primarily need heavy drones, you are going to fly the ishtar and not the myr.
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lmao
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Rest in Peace, my beloved nano-canes.
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Most Gallente ships have more hull than armor. What CCP needs to do is make hull tanking a viable choice by buffing reinforced bulkhead modules. :D
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He means "I fly gallente drone boats the same way I would fly a Pilgrim"
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RIP Hurricane.
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Dual XL ASB, Rapid Lights and Drones might fit okay though and that would work alright I think...
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Get out.
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these changes are bad across the board. the only winner is the myrm which keeps its role with a few slight changes. all the rest get either completely altered or totally castrated. nerfing the cane is one thing but this? why not just remove it from the game entirely for the same effect.
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The Brutix kinda gets screwed. It gets the same rep bonus as the Myrmidon, but can't really pull it off as well. It makes more sense to give it a tracking bonus a la the Thorax below it, and the Megathron above it. Ideally it should outperform the Talos at close ranges, since it won't be nearly as mobile or DPS-y.I know Fozzie said they are working to make active armor tanking better, but until I see something solid, I remain unconvinced.

CCP Fozzie has posted the next round of changes for Tiericide, which means battlecruisers are next on the block! The goal of this round is to equalize Tier 1 and Tier 2 battlecruisers, re-branding them as "Combat". Like the smaller ship classes, "Combat" vessels are intended to be well balanced, providing the pilot with a good mix of offense and defense. The Tier 3 battlecruisers form the "Attack" class and will not be changed.

Prophecy

The Prophecy is already capable of fielding a brick tank in excess of 120k EHP. That's about to get a whole lot bigger, thanks to 617 extra base HP and a 7th low slot. It’s also one of two battlecruisers to change weapon systems, morphing into a drone boat with a 10% bonus to damage and hitpoints. In keeping with the Amarrian drone philosophy, it only gets 75 bandwidth, but a 225m3 drone bay, so an endless horde of light or medium drones is the name of the game, with pilot's choice of either missiles or lasers as a secondary weapon system. In addition to the major changes, the Prophecy also gets a minor buff to capacitor capacity, and sheds a little bit of weight for a modest mobility buff.

Before moving on, let's emphasize the magnitude of this change. The current Prophecy can do (with maxed skills) around 300 DPS with Scorch and a 120k EHP tank now, or 500 DPS with a much smaller tank, around 75k EHP. Post-patch? Fit the same six slot tank with tackling gear and HAM Launchers and while it's a tight fit, you get closer to 125k EHP and around 440 DPS. Or lighten up the tank for more damage mods and get 550 DPS while still weighing in near 95k EHP. It's gonna be scary.

Harbinger

Relative to the Prophecy, the Harbinger gets a set of fairly bland changes. It loses a turret and makes up for it with a boost to the damage per level bonus. At lower levels this is a net nerf, but it breaks even with the battlecruiser skill at IV and pulls ahead for a modest buff at V. The resulting boost to capacitor efficiency is only partially offset by a modest nerf to capacitor recharge rate. An across-the-board EHP nerf stings, but is understandable - the current incarnation of the ship means it has higher base EHP than the Prophecy. Furthermore, while the +25m3 drone bay adds some welcome flexibility, the added mass and lower align time means lower mobility for an already slow ship. Overall, it's a handful of tweaks that probably leans slightly towards a nerf.

Ferox

Early feedback on the forums doesn't seem overly thrilled about the Ferox, but I think it comes off pretty well... though it would be hard for it not to get better, given its current state. A seventh turret combined with a fifth low slot and a little extra fitting to use them are the most welcome changes, and the buffs to agility and reduction in mass don't hurt either. Altogether, it makes for a fairly compelling blasterboat. Between drones and a rack of Neutron Blasters, you can hit ~570 DPS to 12+14km with Null or a whopping ~750 to 6.6+5.1km with Void, all while maintaining a 75k EHP buffer. The Brutix can be fit to do a similar tank or better DPS, but comes up a bit short trying to do both at once (no pun intended), so it does a great job of highlighting the advantages of a shield tanking blaster ship. Just don't forget the support; the Ferox can't tackle on its own.

On a related note, medium railguns continue to be horrible, which casts doubt on them ever being used to really take advantage of the optimal range bonus. That, however, is an issue with the gun itself more than the hull. CCP could start by looking at the fitting requirements - you find yourself hard pressed to fit 250mm railguns to anything, even if you wanted to.

Drake

The changes to the Drake are far more significant than they appear. The bonuses stay the same, including, surprisingly, the kinetic damage bonus, something CCP has claimed they’re trying to get away from. A modest nerf to shield hitpoints takes the top edge off the tank, while extra mass and nearly a full extra second added to the align time means the ship is going to get noticeably less mobile. The fitting also gets a shave. Taking away 10 grid and CPU is more significant than it appears. Many popular fits run very tight on one or the other, so pilots are either going to have to compromise their fits or start plugging in implants.

As an aside, the Rapid Light Launchers are still missing from the bonus, though that might be an oversight; the Caracal picked up such a bonus during its revamp.

Brutix

The Brutix gets a lot of love, starting with a sixth lowslot and a bit of extra fitting to use it. That significantly extends fitting options and lets it function better outside of a glass cannon brawler role. More armor and a significantly larger (albeit slower recharging) capacitor only sweeten the deal, and the cherry on top is a nice boost to nobility. The hull drops a million kilos (7.5%) off its mass and gets a buff to align time as well, which add up to a nice boost to speed with an MWD active - it'll go from 1189m/s to about 1263m/s with an active MWD and max skills.

Myrmidon

The Myrmidon moves back closer to its original incarnation. While it loses its sixth turret (along with the high slot and grid to fit it in), it picks up +25 bandwidth along with +25m3 to its drone bay. That re-opens the ability to field a partial flight of Heavy Drones which in turn represents an enormous boost in damage output - five T2 Hammerhead IIs (no DDA) is 238 DPS, compared to 380 DPS from four Ogre II. Needless to say, no one will be missing that sixth turret. In keeping with the redefined Gallentean drone philosophy, however, the drone bay can accomodate a few spare heavy drones or a flight of light and medium drones, but not both. The armor hitpoints receive a small nerf to bring it in line with the Brutix, though it's nothing major. While the limited drone bay space is a potential handicap and the utility of active armor tanking is questionable, the Myrmidon is still without a doubt one of the big winners here.

Cyclone

This one is interesting. The Cyclone shifts away from being a turret focused split-weapon ship to more of a pure missile ship. Many players seem to be making the obvious comparison to the Drake, pointing out that five launchers leaves the Cyclone underpowered. I don't agree. Five launchers and three BCU II with an ROF bonus plus a full flight of medium drones (thanks to the +10m3 drone bay with bandwidth to match) is 520 DPS; unlike the Drake, it's not tied to a single damage type. That's a bit on the low end, but the new layout leaves two extra highslots. Those can be filled with either a pair of turrets for an extra 60-80 DPS, or a couple of utility modules such as neuts. Given that a sixth launcher only adds 73 DPS (assuming three BCU II and max skills as before), I favor the five launcher with utility layout instead.

Hurricane

If the Hurricane goes live like this, it might be best to drag it out back and shoot it to put it out of its misery. It was already nerfed in Retribution, with the top edge of its powergrid chopped off, and there’s little to be happy for now. The second utility high is gone, the capacitor gets a lot smaller (although that’s offset by a significant buff in recharge rate), and it gets a little heavier and slower. The only real bright side is a modest buff to its armor HP, but it’s too small to get excited over.

Wrapping Up

The biggest winner here, in my mind, is the Prophecy. The Myrmidon is close, but the aforementioned issues do hold it back. The Ferox, Brutix and Cyclone all make out quite well in their own right. Meanwhile, the nerfs to the Drake are probably necessary, though we'll have to see what the real-world implications of that fitting nerf translate into. The short ends of the stick go to the Harbinger and the Hurricane. While the Hurricane's nerf might be understandable, it might have gone a bit too far. The Harbinger, on the other hand, has people scratching their heads while arguing it get a rework. Fortunately, we've got what will be a month or so of balancing and testing ahead of us, so if you’d like to follow the changes to see if CCP agrees, the thread is here. If you just want to get in and try them for yourself, stay tuned - CCP will be pushing the changes to Buckingham soon!

Mynnna
Seven year veteran & economics guru of EVE Online as well as CSM 8 representative. On the side I play PS2, WOT and Hearthstone.