Razor Accidentally Almost the Whole IRC

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TL;DR? IRC are dead.
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The title of this is misleading. Razor said they came for good fights, then at the HB timer had like 600 dudes from 9 different alliences there to crush any chance of good fights. After that IRC pilots just said to themselfs "if a coalition of 30k plus want to take Cobalt, there is nothing our alliamce of 3k can do to stop them", and they stopped showing up to fleets. If anything the CFC accdentally on purpose took space, and crushed moral of IRC, and Razor for some reason is getting the credit.
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I've always had respect for IRC because of them sticking out so much among EVE:s nullsec alliances. Also because of their long history and even though I never flew with them I wish them the best of luck in their continues adventure.
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"Second, the sudden shocking shift from fighting just Razor to realizing that, whenever a timer actually mattered, they'd have to fight the entire CFC"Yes, for the first CE station fight, both IRC and RZR called in friends. But it was just Razor after that, and we even took VY- station with an 80-man fleet. The reason IRC failed is because they were not PvPers and they had crap FCs. Prior to our non-invasion, some IRC FC's stated they could go toe-to-toe against Razor. In reality, IRC rarely wins a fight if it's anywhere near equal numbers (and in a hilarious last gasp: http://dog-net.org/brdoc/?brid.... They held terrible space that was difficult to reach, and existed there only because nobody else made a serious play for it.
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IRC probably shouldn't have spent all that time being douchebags in Tenal every time the CFC deployed. AFK cloaking for days on end, harrassment bomber gangs and small roams, taking pot shots at structures, reinforcing cap construction POS... etc.Always when the cat was away.
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It figures that you guys don't understand what it means to be an ally. Should have guessed this when we saw how you participated in the defense of Tribute.Just because members of the CFC are able to call on allies who are dedicated enough to jump supers an insane distance doesn't mean that all 30k pilots are drooling over CE. Not even RZR wants CE.After that one fight it looks like almost all of the work was done by RZR and it's not like VAF up and quit the day after the HB- fight. Word on the grapevine is that RZR is about to tick over sov3 for some JBs in CE which would mean that the HB- fight was a month ago.That's not to say that the CFC fight in HB- didn't send a message. It did. It's just disingenuous of you to attribute all of the work by RZR to the CFC.
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Rest in peace IRC, Your meat grinder tactics will be missed.
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Ya'know, Imma just throw this out there.A lot of people think that N3 is a part of the HBC. This rumor has been squashed a few times but N3 still denies association with HBC and it can be seen from their killboards. They do enjoy killing HBC. From the small fights in Tenerefis between Nexus and Insidious to the Nulli/NC roams to HED and the camping of Tribal.N3 and HBC have a NIP they do not have a NAP.Currently, N3 and PL are working together to push Solar back. This is not a cooperative op. It is a "Enemey of my Enemy" type deal. PL isn't even blue to Northern Coalition any longer. During strategic ops in Insmother, they hold their guns from one another and point them towards a common enemy.So, after all of that, back to IRC.IRC and associated corporations. Get your ass to the south and join ranks with the growing super power N3. N3 is your best hope at disrupting the blue doughnut everyone seems to fear.Solar missed this opportunity if they ever had it to begin with. IRC, you have fought alongside N3 before in the north against the Goons. Get your diplo's something to do and start backing the next big thing./end
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lol... I'm not in IRC friend.
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Too long..well written and was a good read but got lost and had to move on..just my critic side coming out.Those this affects likely appreciate the insight no doubt
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Aww, I got neg repped. Guess you can't win them all. :)I still think IRC should join the ranks of N3. *hrmph*
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Very Well Writen RevRIP IRC. I loved you guys
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Truth be told IRC in the bygone days deserved to hold that area, it was theirs by force of ownership. Lets not mince words, it is hard to maintain a successful sov that far out due to the sheer logistics, and numbers one has to maintain in order to keep the region. IRC only made a mistake in attacking Razor Assets when we were deployed... had that not been the case it would have been fine to remain 'frenemies' with a neighbor that appreciated a good scuffle.Lets face it in EVE these days finding a gudfite is hard enough, but finding a neighbor who is willing to rally and keep it up. Well that is a rare and wonderous thing. I hope honestly that the region is taken over by someone who does deserve it, and who is interested in holding that lone flag of the former CE, the one scrapper who will fight. I wish all those IRC pilots who recall the glory days, and were part of it, future success. But please make no mistake. In sov you only hold what you deserve and are able to hold. No free rides. IRC picked on a group that had allies, which we fight along side often, when they themselves had no credible ones they could rely on. That is poor decision making by leadership, not the fault of their pilots.I hope my fellow Razor members remember fondly the good brawls and the former glory of the IRC, the battles that started with a bang far more than the last days which end with a whimper. And I hope we all can say with pride, for at least a little bit we were both there.o7 IRC, may someone as fun as you guys come pick up the torch of CE.
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Refering to IRC as "like the taliban" is a bad joke. Your editor should slap you silly.
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Good luck IRC. As others, I started my null-sec history in Intrepid Crossing, and I remeber a lot of goods times. Was fun!
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There hasnt been any formups posted for anything in CE. Thats nothin but RZR, I cant even remember seeing a post for HB- I know I wasnt there and I go on most ~things~
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You think they'll take such shit pilots?
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IRC was always good for a fight... they always tried and while they couldn't always throw the knock out punch required they'd damn sure bloody your nose. Hate to see them go through this and hope that they come out the other side even stronger!
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To be fair... we got bored.
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The term "Shit Pilot" is subjective. Depends on what you consider a shit pilot?Personally, I think Shit Pilots are those that can't learn. To others, a shit pilot is someone with a low SP Pool. I think N3 is more along my lines of thinking. You have alliances like Nexus Fleet who have low Skill Point pools, welp a few fleets but still give good fights even tho the majority of their pilots are in rifters.IRC has good pilots. They have shit pilots. But the bottom line is they have pilots.If you're going to throw stones at each other, it's harder to dodge a 100 little stones than it is to dodge a single big stone. The more pilots N3 can accumulate, the more they have to throw at the HBC or CFC when it comes to it.
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Nice write-up. I started out in 0.0 near IRC and ED back in the day. Never fought on their side, but always had respect for them doing it their way, and keeping it up. Every type of player should be able to find a home in 0.0 somewhere. Say what you will about IRC, but it's a loss for the diversity of 0.0 if they end up dead for good.
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Why is it a bad joke?why is it a joke? i think its a fair point of comparison
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You seem to be implying Razor are a pvp alliance which is frankly a load of shit, you are part of the CFC and therefore you are not pvp alliances you are "take over strategic objectives with overwhelming numbers" not pvpers. Hell you have seen all of the CFC aliances trying to pvp by themselves recently they have all horribly failed until you all come togeather and blob the fuck out of whoever is shooting you. VOC and Black Legion fights to name just a few. Stop kidding yourselves you are not pvpers ffs stop pretending you are
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ELITE PVP RIDES AGAIN
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Uhh not well written needed quite a few edits for clarity spelling etc...
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I think you're confusing "PvP" (which by definition is simply player vs. player) with "elite PvP." I'm sorry the CFC doesn't fit your incorrect and too-narrow definition of PvP. BTW, which region did they kick you out of?
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they will reappear somewhere as always, you can't kill IRC lol
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It was a shame. You could see it coming with the plethora of semi-afk cloakies (quite a few from CFC, unless the screen was lying) that started over a month before CFC took it for Razor. That was right after CFC telegraphed their intentions all over the place in articles (one here) and forums, without mentioning IRC directly. If it had been just Razor, things would have probably ended much differently. IRC may have made some diplomate mistakes in the past, but it was the most decent group of people I've run into in this game.
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Move along, nothing to see here..... http://dog-net.org/brdoc/?brid...Looks like it could have been a good fight.... but lets be real here for a moment, alliences in the CFC are not really after good fights, and to be fair most don't even know what it means. The rest of the community say good fights are fights that could have gone ether way, and both sides felt great about the fight even if they lost, almost any fight that takes place in TiDi in not considered a good fight, as it in no way fun or exciting for anyone involved(there are of course some exceptions, but they are few, and far between). Where CFC dudes often on this site and others call one-sided 10% TiDi fights goodfights.
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You can tell an alliance is failscading when corps start leaving for Tribal Band
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Cascade imminent was killed by people just looking for "good fights".If you are really looking for good LONG TERM fights you need to pick a healthy target. Not one embroiledin current wars or recovering from massive recent losses. Unless you like to accidentally an entire alliance.
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I hope the region rots. A memorial to killing off a good thing.
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I only wanted to shoot his leg so he couldn't run away, but then i hit an artery.
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They took a few systems fight back but for real since u dont have back up for the first time fold i got it.
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I guess the overblob of the station timer was just the final straw, but it's sad to see this happen. RIP IRC. Weak-willed alliances with giant blue lists are the problem, not you.
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Well written article Mak. This is a very accurate account of everything that has gone on. I would have loved to have done some things different during the last few months, but between real life, a lack of interest in Eve and a lack of help, I don't know there is much I could have done that would have changed things.
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Nice article. And yes, that was initially a tease by Razor for a gud fite, that turned into a sudden death of the IRC. Pity. I don't think Razor needs that space. Hopefully and probably some other new and active entity moves in to shake up the region's boredom.
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IRC could not stand up to the CFC. Not surprising at all. If Razor wanted good fights then why did it hit sov systems? Moons and CSAA's are sufficient for a good fight. This is the same as what -A- did to old providence CVA. These places are better as game reserves. Don't carpet bomb the herds or they won't be there to hunt anymore.
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EMPTY SPACE FOR THE BOT GOD!
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This is a prime example of the pot calling the kettle black. CFC entities hit plenty of IRC assets over the last 2 years. I remember when dbrb lost his nyx in I-CMZA. It didn't get there because he got lost. Same with CFC entities periodically 'afk cloaking' in CE over the past few years.And seriously, how the hell can you complain about people doing small gang roams into your territory. First if you're deployed, you shouldn't be there to get killed in the first place. And if you're not, it's pvp that is coming straight to your doorstep. Neither of these are negatives.To be frank, unless you guys are planning on sweeping south, taking CE was probably the dumbest move I've seen in the game since Vince let raiden get pushed out of tenal and then NIP'ed up to save his tech.
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Late November, before RZR actually started this poking-turned-invasion, I only really remember a handful of RZR cloaky camping it up in CE in primarily EIOT systems and surroundings as a backlash from IRC's prior cloaky camp activities in Tenal. Hilariously catching a certain dual boxing pilot, an oblivious carrier pilot and some ratters in funny and totally avoidable ways. *cough*by own alliance's hell-bubbled gates for instance*cough*Rarely did I see any other presumably neut/red to IRC activity other then the occasional RZR solo pilot or small gang coming through. Certainly not a lot of cloakies.
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I do have to add I respect IRC for always bringing fights when we did enter their homes and I'm saddened to read IRC wont be there to oblige my intended, or not so, welp with a good fight for much longer if at all. And all this due to simple misconception of our intent. =/
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You are a bitter vet, aren't you. From reading between the lines of your post, I sense that you might be better off playing LOL. The variations and realities of real PvP is telling on you.
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There is an analogy in history regarding the CFC style of PvP verses your "elite" style of PvP. Read up on the Gladiator War (73-71 BC). There is no doubt that Gladiators were elite fighters and were trained as such. Even so, the gladiator rebellion ("elite PvP") was crushed by the full force of eight legions under the command of Marcus Licinius Crassus ("CFC Blob").
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long live irc it was fun flying with tessa merk bcpro panther you mak miss them days epa and your corp should join HBC :D
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Well written article. I'm a RZR grunt and, sorry, apart from from the final HB- station timer, and a little fleet support here and there, it was all us. Also, the comment below wasn't first criticism I've heard of Oldma and the other "Lords of IRC".
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Super support on stand by and sup cap support at a moments notice is hardly "a little"
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Please tell me people don't actually think Razor did this alone.
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you died like solar because you join cfc in the last war.DIED useless alliance
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Razor are fucking pro, they patphoned all coalition for cobalt edge lmao
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pffff retarded, Razor attacked cobal edge for fail cascade IRC, because they need more number in CFC
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Now CFC is the biggest EVE online coalition ever GJ cowards, luckily i'm playing in low-sec because 0.0 is shit now
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wtf why goon nazi moderator delete comments?
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trolololol RAZOR have the empire botting thank to "Insurgent New Eden Tribe"(I-NET).rfm HORUS return
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Have to admit, if Razor didn't see this coming I'd be surprised. Securing Sov for Titan/Cap hot drops and effectively camping the region might have as we'll been a complete Sov invasion. I'm sure every IRC grunt probably thought that they would never be allowed to take back those systems with CFC backing the Sov hold. Was just a matter of time before IRC peeps got grinded down by line fleets, Cap fleet hot drops and no way to make isk. Oh well. Time to move on and let better opponents hold Cobalt Edge. R.I.P IRC.
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...that was well over a month ago. Way to go and search for ancient engagements.
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What, really. Overkill..
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Lets be real here. When I woke up this morn and logged in I looked at my fleet finder- there was 14 fleets. Now do I stop and consider what and where each one of those fleets is and what they are doing? Sure. Mostly as it relates to how quick it would take to get there and how much fun it will be. Do I stop and consider whether the victims of said fleets will have their feelings crushed by 10% tidi or blobs? No. The CFC as a whole doesnt give a rats ass about CE. If it makes you feel better to tell yourselves you were crushed by 20 alliances then go right on ahead massaging your fragile ego. 10% tidi isnt fun at times, sometimes it is. Usually people will define a 'fun' and 'goodfight' as one that they win. I define a fun and goodfight as one where we put a hefty bag of shit on your porch and light it on fire then bang on the door until you open it then club you repeatedly with a baseball bat but thats just me. The CFC is a large org and you will have massive fleets for fun fights. POS shot op not so much. The point is: the whole thing is razors deal, we have people in fleets all over EVE, I died in Providence today for crissakes
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what's the point of defending when for any strategic objective the attacker brings overwhelming numbers ?
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These BRdocs are empty whats up?
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I think what he's saying is that morale inside non CFC/HBC alliances vanishes as soon as they start getting attacked by the big blob on any timer. There's simply no way for what's left of the northeast to defend against it. You can see the same thing happening in the drone regions - PL showed up and now people aren't even bothering to turn up for timers since they expect the rest of the HBC to appear soon.It's possible that in a few months the only people around to provide content for the CFC will be a few small alliances like BL and providence, since all the major sov based opposition will be gone. Failing a HBC reset of course. Although maybe people will keep lining up for the goodfights. The TEST guys seem happy just doing stuff like camping the Keberz gate all day so maybe it's for the best.
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People have been saying the same thing since the 1st Great War. Something always happens in this dynamic universe we live in. By the end of 2013 the map will look entirely different than it does now.
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I like how the author bashes Solar for being bad allies when it was IRC who backed out in the DRF wars. However, it was a piece written from an IRC perspective so I understand the bias.
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CFC was there to take HB-. I don't think they showed up after that except for the occasional small roam.
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If you say so.
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Very true but yah know what in a video game its just kinda pathetic. Who wants to be the nameless persian soldier when you could be the Spartan taking 5 down with him. Quantity is a quality all its own as the CFC has proven time and again but telling your mates of an epic fight you won with 5x their numbers is lame. Its a video game and fighting with 5x numbers is like winning a game in easy.But i will say thanks because the CFC provides hard mode for those willing to take the challenge. And if you don't care about sov it adds endless lopsided battle reports glorifying the Spartans.
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True enough, allthough Marcus Licinius Crassus was more of a merchant(rumoured wealthiest in rome) than a military leader, this is why it took so long and why the gladiators could do the damage they did. The gladiators were hunger starved though but thats how I'd like to imagine all of the "elite"pvpers are :)
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Very well written. Thanks for putting the time to say what most of us wanted to say.
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They didn't have to. If IRC pulled big numbers the act of calling them once showed that real resistance would be crushed with numbers.
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With what I call the "big four" pvp corps leaving IRC it is of no surprise that pvp resistance waned.Eve Protection Agency-Probably the most cap happy of the corps and providing good leadership to most fleets. The last of the four to leave. Them leaving is what finally broke all pvp. [Now in Unclaimed]VAF-Also providing good numbers (in absolute terms not relative) superb logistical support and quite possibly the games best combat prober. [Now in Black legion]Solar Storm-While not providing any pvp leadership their members always showed up and had the right ships and a great attitude. [In the PL client alliance Insidious Empire]Segmentum Solar-The smallest of the big four but with the highest relative participation. Probably the closest IRC had to "elite pvp". [Fighting as part of Nulli in N3]
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So basically, if I'm roaming around alone. The only form of PvP you accept and acknoledge is that there is just 1 person from the opposing fleet that engages me. After which we say GF and get on with it.You do realize you're playing an MMO right?I get "Blopped" to shit by 15 man "Elite PvPers" all the time when roaming alone. Don't hear me bitching about that they can't PvP.
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Keep kidding yourself and I will keep laughing at you!
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Like the 80 man fleet that took VY-? Please.
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Are you denying your own efforts in that campaign?Or are you some Razor scrub that thinks they're not terrible?
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People may have been saying that since before the first great war, but you have to admit the map has never been so blue. Before the first great war when everyone was saying this atleast there was a war brewing, everyone knew war was come, right now everyone is content with the NIP/NAP that is 75% of the sov. map, and it's making for a very boring game, one that I wonder why I'm logging into to be honest.
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Thats the HB fight, and the last time they put up any kind of resistens, this is what broke the moral of the alliance, as they knew from this point forward Razor would batphone the CFC any time they did face any real resistens. I't pretty much what everyone above has been commenting about..... did you skip over those comments?
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"Solar are not terribly good allies"Well SOLAR several times saved IRC, while the IRC were non-factor in almost all SOLAR's wars. Mopping renters and various pets is not something to be proud for large alliance like IRC. And then you started helping NCdot, with whom SOLAR had fought for six months before.
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Your somewhat clueless and your comment reflects that.
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lol one alliance verses ten..... just fight back guys...
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My comment reflects the knowledge of the situation in said alliances. I always liked the IRC, but their high command's actions in recent years greatly surprised me, do not have any problems with the IRC pilots, though.
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It never ceases to amazeballs me how historical FACT is skewed. It was just Razor... a few bored FA pilots came for the ride on occasion but apart from the HB- station timer it was only Razor. And that timer we had intel of IRC buddies coming for the show and everyone anticipated a huge fight which never quite materialized. Show me on the KB where apart from that fight the combined might of the CFC was involved.As for the semi afk cloakies what about the ones in Tenal? What about the CSAA's hit at the start? Ya kinda asked to be squished and you got it. You want a different outcome get better at PvP then, cause you had the numbers.
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This is a ridiculous view. "We just wanted a staging system for GFs"As a mostly industrialist in 0.0, I can tell you that it is shit to have a significant enemy staging in your region and roaming all your space every day in all time zones. The disruption is significant. For an alliance that can replenish their PvP fleets and pay sov bills solely through local carebearing, this is an untenable position. People will stop participating in fleets, and then begin leaving. Then there is no one to fight, no more GFs, and you accidentally the whole region, right? Whocouldaknowed.
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Speaking as a member of VAF ...Sometime back in October we had some serious corp meetings wherein we discussed our unhappiness with IRC and what we wanted to see changed. The discussion really crystallized after we realized that the average skillpoints on VAF mains was pretty close to 50m skillpoints; way, way higher than IRC's average. (We did a survey and so Tessa had this data and could look at skills across the alliance.)Really, VAF was just out of sync with the rest of IRC. After three years, we'd helped build a viable 0.0 region to live in. The market was awesome, VAFmart was humming, business was good. But we weren't really growing our game. Most of our members were just getting bored with the same ol', same ol'. When we teamed up with NC./BL in the recent northern wars, we realized that we craved that sort of play: PvP with people who really enjoy PvP and can bring the proper ship to fleets. ;-)The writing was on the wall then. Yet when HB came under attack, we geared up to fight. We lost several carriers and many, many ships. HB fell, and yet, Oldma never addressed the alliance. There were no posts, no glorious "we will defeat the red bastard!" type propaganda, nothing. Silence. Our nominal War Leader, Ricardos, was nowhere to be seen. Nowhere did anybody replace him, either. bcpro stepped up and tried doing stuff, some other guys tried helping, but it was a serious case of "High Command is MIA". Tessa did what she could, but she is a logistics specialist -- she tried to carry the updates, but one person can't run a 3500 member alliance solo with the rest of HC busy flying their freighters around quietly.When your leadership can't even spend 10 minutes to update the alliance on what's going on every day and you are losing stations and space, your alliance dies. That's the long and short of IRC's demise.RIP IRC. I enjoyed flying your flag while I did and will seriously miss E-BYOS and Cobalt Edge. We built that station (literally), it was our home for three years. Yeah, it's absolutely the ass end of space, but it was OUR ass end of space.
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thing is no overwhelming numbers were brought for anything after HB-. IRC has had no problem matching and beating rzr fleets for numbers in the past, they freaked out and jumped ship and firesale'd so quickly though that suddenly they were able to form nothing but 30 man bomber fleets, and rzr fleets suddenly had it easy.
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I have a feeling that IRC will bounce back as they have so many times before.
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all that is happening is the end game of CCP's horrid nerfing of drone regions.
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I'd like to see some citations on your information regarding Thebes, please.
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You are entitled to your opinion. But considering the numbers that the CFC can bring to a battle, I would say that you are outnumbered by people who would disagree with you. They just want to be there and add their bit.From my observation of players within the CFC, the blob allows younger PvP players and industrial types to compete against the unmatched skills of older PvP players. As the young PvP players progress, they are diversifying by testing their newly trained PvP skills in small gang roams etc.Like in real life, Sov warfare will never take the form of elite PvP. While it is true that better equipment and better skills can reduce the needed size of your force. It will always be a numbers game involving organisation, number of people, mobility, morale, and motivation.The problem with so called "Elite PvP" is that it has enslaved those who adhear to it, much the same way that the gladiators of Rome were slaves. As such, your thinking becomes confined to a particular way and it becomes difficult to accept other ways of doing things.I actually loath the so called "elite PvP". culture of eve. From what I have observed of it, it constantly preys on the younger players to feed an insatiable ego and does nothing to teach younger players how to play the game. When an organisation like Goons comes along with a swarm of younger players and wins fights through numbers, they cry fowl and unfair, they call on CCP to rebalance the game.The biggest danger to the CFC though is relying on the blob too much. It is very important to diversify tactics, to adapt, to be alert to the ever present risk of stagnation.
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I have lost a lot of respect for RZR. As I sat back watching this unfold I couldn't help but compare IRC to Providence - a well below-average, slightly confused entity that served a purpose in this game. Looking for good fights against someone like this is fine but if this really was RZR's intent then they have proven their ignorance in terms of understanding they opponent. This is not how you get a good fight, or any fight for that matter, out of IRC. Any former or current IRC pilots out there who may read this, from a CFC member to you, let it be known that I did not approve of RZR's actions and we thank you for fighting.
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Hahaha IRC are stupid scrubs. Enjoy highsec noobs and l2pvp.
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Awww they dont have tech moons so they cant have srp... What a load of crap that is.
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Well I never said anything about "GFs" or good fights or any of those words' different spellings because I have no idea what "good fight" means in eve, nor do I think it is a phrase that can be given an objective and universal meaning, though not for lack of trying. We wanted to eliminate the need to always engage IRC by jumping thru a gate into them, and to eliminate always being camped in by a jump-bridging fleet after each fight, so we took some systems to give our fleets better mobility.IRC attacked RZR infrastructure while we were in Delve and while we fought NC. and friends in Tribute/Vale. I don't know why but I'm sure they had reasons like we did recently.I guess if a balance cannot be maintained between reaping the benefits of your space and defending your space then it's not going to last.I just think IRC would have defended much better from rzr fleets and roams if they hadn't given up so quickly.
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moderated for mad bro.
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No one really wanted IRC to fold. The truth is, the CFC needed the IRC for fun. You don't kill farmville.
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As I'm just now getting around to reading this today, is it possible that you chose poorly with your posting?
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someone seems pretty mad over it.
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hang on when BoB crushed ASCN and pushed to Omist and Feyth the entire southern half of the map was blue more to the point it was one alliance, BoB even managed to gain a toe in tenerifis while home was Delve,
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what part of rzr dosnt want to purge do people not get
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someone should write a piece about it.
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So what you are saying is that Razor organised the CFC killing of IRC? ....semantics!
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Then they shouldn't have brought the rest of the blue blob to the HB fight, and they would still have the good fights!I understand the urge to be on the winning side... it's fun to down a bunch of red carriers and take a station, and with the current CFC / HBC situation, it's imposible to keep your friends out of the 'fun' fights.... but this is the result!
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It wasn't actually half, but whatever re-writing history is cool too. Anyways lets just assume it was half(which it wasn't) isn't half 50%? Was war not brewing, or already happening? Am I missing the point you were trying to make?Anyways my point stands that eve is very boring at the moment, and I still am not sure why I keep logging in.....
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Yeah, there is no point in bothering with a rzr fight for IRC. Rzr will just call in help from the Goons at this point. *shrug* Save your isk and move on... There is no point in trying to defend territory from a slave alliance if you are only going to lose isk.
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It is simply the truth to credit the CFC for this victory. There are two basic truths. IRC was not able to fight the CFC. It was able to fight RZR. Anything else is just BS... :)
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To paraphrase our beloved DBRB the `ancestrial hunting grounds ` are no more. Well.
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I need to clarify a sentence in a previos post and I cannot find a way of editing it. The folowing sentence: " When an organisation like Goons comes along with a swarm of younger players and wins fights through numbers, they cry fowl and unfair, they call on CCP to rebalance the game.", should read as follows: "When an organisation like Goons comes along with a swarm of younger players and wins fights through numbers, so called "elite PvP" cry fowl and unfair, they call on CCP to rebalance the game."
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so wrong , the only ones that really came to help Razor regulary are -FA-I remember Razor batphoning the CFC once but thats because IRC batphoned nc. , BL etc. to defend their station.
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Good piece. Thanks for sharing
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What the hell is resistens? My dictionary does not seem to contain this word.
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IRC dead was a while ago. The name change was just the marker.

 

Intrepid Crossing is dead. Long live Intrepid Crossing.

I say that IRC is dead with no satisfaction. It was my first alliance. I have many friends who are (and more who were) members. I honestly like the people in leadership positions there, and I respect the long history of the organization, despite how others have maligned it.

But the truth is the truth: Intrepid Crossing is going through a classic "failure cascade". Is this an obituary? Sort of. The IRC I have been a loyal, contributing part of for almost all of my short time playing Eve is no more. However, I also fully expect some part of it to continue on to find some new incarnation, as it has done before. Also, IRC has a long history, and I have only been with them since 2011, so what you have here is my personal perspecive.

So how did this happen? Short version: Razor Alliance started taking sov in northern Cobalt Edge, and accidentally broke the alliance they were looking for good fights from.

You see, as anyone who does nulsec pvp can tell you, Cobalt Edge has the reputation for being a place you can always get a fight. This is partially a matter of the alliance's culture, and partially due to its unusual situation.

IRC is (was) an odd bird in the world of nulsec politics: a freestanding carebear alliance that defends its own space. Their only real long-standing allies were Solar Fleet, and frankly, Solar are not terribly good allies. Yes, Solar gave IRC Cobalt Edge as a home after IRC was kicked out of their original homes farther south in the original Dronelands War. But in recent times whenever IRC needed help, if it came from anyone at all, it came from elsewhere: Nulli, Black Legion, NCdot, or IRC's smaller cousins ROGUE, Black Core Alliance, STR8NGE BR3W, and other Drone Region residents.

Not long ago, IRC helped Solar by working to clear out The Kalevala Expanse alongside ancient ally and now finally resurgent Ethereal Dawn, so that SCDOT and others, could move in under Solar's wing. And before that IRC helped Solar boot Legion of xXDeathXx by destroying xXDeathXx's renter empire in Oasa. But in return, IRC has had no assistance from Solar in their own region of Cobalt Edge. And rumors - whether true or not - circulated among line-level members that Solar's MACTEP and the Goonswarm's The Mittani were penpals, and that MACTEP had something to do with the Goons kicking neutral-to-IRC NCdot from Tenal, to replace them with IRC's old-time rival, Razor. So despite IRC leader Oldma's loyalty to the relationship, many others within IRC have long believed Solar Fleet would never turn up to help again.

Another unusual aspect of IRC is that for years they held an entire region (and lately more) without any access to technetium moons or hordes of renters. This has made the economy in Cobalt unusual, especially after the nerf to drone alloy drops. With no large pvp protector ally, and no massive income stream, IRC has operated like a hybrid renter alliance. Individual corps did pay rent to the alliance, although at rates far, far below what a corp would pay in a true renter alliance. In return, each corp had control of one or more systems of its own to rat, mine, run PI, and build in. And when roaming reds and neuts come through, it was the responsibility of the individual members to drive them away so that carebearing could resume. With no tech income, there was no alliance-level ship replacement program beyond a partial logi-reimbursement program, although there were times when Oldma chose to personally reimburse pilots who lost capitals in defense of alliance assets. Instead, some corps ran their own SRP, and other corps expected their individual members to carry their pvp expenses personally.

This created an odd loop. In most alliances, there is an SRP that frees its members of needing to make isk. Which means that there is little economic incentive to fleet up to "defend the home space" against roaming gangs. This allows such alliances to become offensive (rather than defensive) pvp forces in the Great Game of nulsec warfare. And unless moons, sov structures, or jump bridges are under attack, members of most alliances can just dock up and mock the invaders from within their stations.

In Cobalt Edge, however, if you don't defend your space, you don't make isk, and if you don't make isk, you can't pvp. Amazingly, though, this worked. Despite its outside reputation, and despite its residents' extreme delight in complaining about the place, Cobalt Edge was a potentially very profitable place to live for quite a while. No, no bounties, no officer drops - no loot at all! - came from ratting in CE, but the Plush and Glossy alloys rogue drones carried in their wrecks fueled a very lucrative industrial machine that made a lot of people in the region quite wealthy.

Until the alloy nerf.

Not long ago, drones stopped dropping mineral-rich alloys and started paying bounties. No loot, mind you, just bounties. Suddenly industrialists were faced with much greater needs for imports from other regions to maintain their production lines. Yes, you could still rat to pay for your ships, but now the ships were more expensive. And if you are one of those people who finds spreadsheets filled with minerals and parts and production ratios to be fun? Well, maybe Cobalt was no longer a fun place to live. So pvp'ing became harder to pay for by the line-level yeoman-soldier, while simultaneously the motivation to defend the space took a hit.

Many nulsec alliances are very much like ancient Sparta: divided into warrior and laborer classes, with those who do building and supply and transport almost a separate culture unto themselves, sometimes practically invisible behind the overall warrior-ethos put forward as the "official" alliance self-story. In addtion, there have been some in the past who have tried to set up alliances that were more along the Athenian model: democratic, counsel-based, consensus-driven, egalitarian; these tend to fail quite famously. In the Russian Dronelands, the model was feudal: lord alliances that protected the lands of far-flung serf alliances, in exchange for huge rental payments from the fruits of their laborers.

IRC was not quite any of these. Perhaps the closest historical equivalent was ancient Thebes. In the spectrum of Greek city-states, Thebes was more Athenean than Spartan, but that's an oversimplification. Thebes was the leader of the Boeotian confederacy, a group of city-states that were governed by a wide base of land-owning aristocrats. During times of war, landowners and farmers formed the famed Hoplite units, but during times of peace the military would largely stand down and break up as the warriors quickly resumed their agrarian pursuits. It was egalitarian to a degree, but not truly Athenean.

Likewise, IRC is not ruled by councils and votes, per se. Rather, a handful of people that make up the "High Command" make all the calls, with alliance leader Oldma sometimes exercising benevolent dictor rights. And most of the High Command was drawn from founding corp, AWECO. During times of peace, the High Command generally left the member corps to do their own thing, within some basic prescribed boundaries. During times of war, High Command, working with Senior Fleet Commanders, would devise strategy, call ops, dictate fleet doctrines, and demand fleet participation from the entire membership. The only "vote" anyone got was the option to leave.

And that worked when things went well, and even sometimes when they did not go well. A culture built up in IRC that included an intense pride in this oddball identity of yeoman-warrior, citizen-soldier, carebear-with-teeth. And a part of the IRC self-story - galvanized during their trauma in the Dronelands War - is the firm belief that no matter the odds, IRC fights on. "Defend our space!" gets called out in response to a gang of 5 frigates showing up in intel. To some, that's crazy. But IRC very much evolved into a kind of junkyard dog: not pretty to look at, not easy to get along with, not terribly presentable, not always totally healthy, but determined to fight to the death against anything that crossed its territory, no matter how small, no matter how big.

So if you wanted a guaranteed fight, you went to Cobalt Edge. When other alliances docked up and blue-balled you, beating you with boredom, IRC folks were always eager to get in whatever shitfit ships they had around and go at you. Yes, if you stuck around too long, like a growing gang of zombies attracted by the sounds of struggle, the IRC fleet would grow into a blob that could eventually ruin the fun of a small gang. But what if you had a big "gang"? Yep, IRC was generally always good for those fights, too. Even if facing overwhelming odds.

And you could keep killing them, being sure of one thing: IRC reships. Like the Taliban, IRC was not often militarily very sophisticated, but they seemed very willing to blow themselves up for a cause. (Think what cloning technology would do for suicide bombers in the real world.) So if you had a big group of pvp'ers you wanted to keep happy, Cobalt Edge was an excellent place to get some "gud fites" in.

And it seems that's what Razor thought. And if Razor and IRC were left alone to have a friendly forever war of non-permanent border skirmishes, a certain crazed homeostasis would surely have set in. But wouldn't it be more interesting if Razor could use capitals? You see, to get from Razor's Tenal to IRC's Cobalt Edge, you have to take a fantastically long gate from SF- to HB-, crossing many lightyears past the jovian space in between. No jump drive or titan bridge can cross that gap. So fights in northern cobalt rarely involved cap ships, and IRC held a home advantage in terms of bridging. Likewise, when IRC went into Tenal (which was far more rare, given their economic focus), Razor held that advantage.

And beyond getting "good fights" there is an additional reason for Razor to want a permanent presence in Cobalt Edge: with HB- and a few other key systems under control, the CFC becomes able to project their force down toward Solar space through Oasa to the south.

So Razor started poking at sov structures in HB-, the northern gateway to CE - and, quite frankly, the only hostile border system in all of IRC space. What they found was that IRC was softer than they had been before. Since the alloy nerf, and since the burnout of FCs that happened in back-to-back wars in the drone regions to the south, IRC had lost quite a few people who were more pvp'ers than carebears. Farmer-hoplite soldiers are only truly effective when they have good military leadership. Without a General Epaminondas (or three), the line-level miners and builders tend to not put up a very effective fight.

What's more, IRC seemed to not take the threat to HB- seriously. Yes, sometimes an IRC CSAA would come under assault, and yes, sometimes a jumpbridge would get hit, but overall, IRC had spent years with only one or two serious threats to their sov. During the DRF destruction of the original Northern Coalition (NOTdot), HB- and its surrounding systems had fallen, but with the help of Solar and others, IRC reclaimed it. And during the war against xDeath, Pandemic Legion had sbu'd the CE capital system E-BY, temporarily pushing IRC out of the sov-hitting portion of that conflict. But in all these cases, IRC had come back into total control of the entire region.

But this time, the threat at first appeared to some to be just Razor acting out of boredom. Yes, some saw signs that this was much more, but not everyone did, and high command seemed not to react to it.

And so the station was attacked. And the initial turnout to hold it was poor. For the final timer, though, IRC put together a respectable defense force, including a large portion of their carrier fleet, finally getting off the ball and treating the threat with the seriousness it deserved. And then, in one of those dramatic strokes that makes playing this game so fun, a CFC cap fleet appeared on the field, having been quietly moved into the region the long way around. The IRC fleet went down in flames. But it was an amazingly fun fight for all sides. As the meme goes, "I was there." And as always, IRC reshipped and reshipped, but the combined might of all of Razor's allies in the CFC could not be held back.

Now, this would have been a perfect time for a Church-esque speech from high command about fighting in the fields, etc.; it's easy to discount the power of mere words, but they can make or break an alliance's morale just as much (or more than) events on the battlefield do. But no such rallying happened.

Yet, at first the old IRC spirit held. "We've been here before, we know what to do, we'll get through this." But this time around was different on many levels. Morale started to break as December drew to a close. Why was it different this time around?

First, some of the key members of high command had pressing Real Life stuff that was keeping them from being able to participate for long hours in-game, and this was happening around the holidays.

Second, the sudden shocking shift from fighting just Razor to realizing that, whenever a timer actually mattered, they'd have to fight the entire CFC - with cap ships - had a deeply demoralizing effect that was hard to hold off.

Third, over the past year, IRC had lost quite a few corps and too many critical-to-pvp members. Partially the alloy nerf was to blame. And part of the blame falls to FC burnout during several deployments and wars outside of Cobalt Edge. But it was also due to the fact that the more pvp-centric corps that had been recruited to bolster the carebear weekend drake pilots did not find the existing alliance culture compatible. People brought in to be part of the growing pvp wing of an otherwise fairly carebeary group became increasingly frustrated by poor fleet compositions, and sometimes thin participation by other corps. And so several pvp groups had left, and more than one FC had stopped logging on. Not all of them, mind you, but the the remaining bullpen was getting strained.

Finally, in an ironic twist, the carebear core's willingness to pvp had begun to dwindle. Why? Because IRC had started to become more successful at behaving like a capable war-ready alliance. Even the usual "LOLIRC!" folks outside of Cobalt Edge started to grudgingly acknowledge that IRC fleets were starting to tighten up. Fleet compositions were improving, which allowed for better tactical applications, and overall IRC was getting better militarily. Not quickly, but it was certainly observable.

Accomplishing this, however, had required a shift in attitudes at the leadership level, as well as some organizational changes. Each corporation was asked to put forward two or more Military Liasons whose job was to do quality assurance on their corp's contributions to fleets, assisting their own members with training, fleet stockpiling, and in general understanding what was and was not going to work in fleets. And what once was a relaxed policy of, "Well, if you can't fly what's called for, bring what you can," changed over time to an anti-drake, anti-kitchen-sink attitude that chased non-fleet ships out, sometimes with mockery and derision, sometimes with outright hostility and threats. IRC had seen first hand while flying with NCdot and Black Legion fleets how much fleet composition could make a difference, and some had decided to go that route. But can a carebear culture be turned around into a more traditional pvp one without just replacing all the members? Perhaps not in the long run.

The new approach tightened up their fleets. It also shrank them. Under some circumstances, it's a reasonable tradeoff to make, if made intentionally. Arguments could be made for or against this shift on these grounds. However, it also did one additional thing: it fueled increasing hostilities between industrial-focused corps and those with a pvp focus. Carebears who could fly fleet ships started to say, "Why fleet up with those dicks?" And hardcore combat pilots started to say, "Why are we carrying the water for those lazy bastards?"

Razor continued to push down the pipeline, making the northern part of the region permanently in danger of hot-dropping, now that they had titans and supers stationed nearby. Corps like my own who lived in that part of the region stopped making isk at all. Personally, this was not too difficult for me, because a) I am a pvp'er, not a ratter, and b) I have a basket of isk-making activities running that have nothing to do with the security of my home space. But it certainly hurt others in the area.

And as Razor pushed south, it became harder and harder to put together fleets. The official High Command strategy was to bore Razor to death, using stealth bomber fleets to go after sbu's and sov structures, much like we had done in Oasa vs. xDeath. Not a terrible plan, but for three things.

First, high command didn't overcommunicate. Yes overcommunicate. In large, multi-timezone organizations that are experiencing crisis, leadership is not communicating enough unless they feel like they are doing it way too much. Line level pilots crave a sense that someone is on the ball, and need a constant diet of reminders of this. Second, there was a growing feeling of urgent anxiety among many members that if HB- was not retaken soon, the sov level would reach the point where the system could be cyno-jammed, and then the situation would become permanent. And third, as said already, it was getting harder to get people into fleets.

And, with no chance of help from any outside force except from neighbors/former-IRCers in ROGUE alliance next door in Oasa, and perhaps occasionally from Black Legion, and with effectively only a couple truly experienced FCs left in the alliance, things started to quietly break apart.

Militarily, IRC could still make the grinding of Cobalt Edge take many months for Razor to accomplish. And it appeared that Razor themselves had become less aggressive about expanding their control. It gave me the image of Lennie from Of Mice and Men explaining to George that he didn't mean to kill the cute little things, he was only playing with them. The advance didn't stop, but the intensity dropped off a little.

But then VAF pulled out.

VAF - Vanguard Frontiers - was too central to the current incarnation of IRC for IRC to be the same without them. During the communication disconnect between line-level membership and High Command, a growing meme among some was that Tessa Yor, of VAF, was the only alliance-level leader who was communicating enough that people felt they had any real leadership. I think this slightly overstated Tessa's role, and cut short the at least good-intentioned efforts of people like Oldma, Takhion, wiseoak, and Millsy, but it was a real and understandable perception.

Furthermore, VAF was the keystone of the logistical backbone that made living in the dark reaches of distant Cobalt Edge economically feasible. From Cobalt Edge trade center E-BY to Jita is 35 gates, 30 of them through mostly hostile 0.0. So the average pilot in IRC came to depend heavily on the very well-run (and very profitable) "company store" set up via out-of-game brower, VAFMart. Through VAFMart people bought supplies, shipped things to and from Empire space, and bought and sold building materials.

If that weren't enough, VAF also made up a non-insignificant percentage of the regular pvp'ers in alliance. They weren't a strictly pvp corp, but they had members who were very good at it, and they were as a whole very good at showing up whenever needed. (As an aside, the hands-down best combat-prober and scout I have yet to see in all the alliances I've had an inside view of is a member of VAF. I'd mention him by name, but a) people who know him already know who I'm talking about, and b) I'm guessing he's happy to have people who don't know who he is left to wonder.)

Finally, VAF had been in IRC for so long (having joined in early 2010), they were part of the bedrock of the current version of the alliance. Their CEO was part of the alliance High Command, and they were the owners of the station in E-BY.

So when VAF gave a one-week notice that they were moving on, it was clear to me that failure cascade was imminent, if not already underway. IRC was about to tip. As my own corp (Abh Empire) made plans for a potential new home and a new 0.0 relationship, we continued for some time to participate in fleet operations. We've become quite pvp focused these days, despite our early industrial roots, and we wanted to help. And we wanted to give IRC one more chance to turn things around if they could. But to be fair to them, by the time we gave Oldma formal notice of this, it was probably too late for things to turn around enough.

And we of course weren't the only corporation with one hand firing guns while the other hovered over the eject button. Over the course of a week or so, corp after corp announced its departure. Some left quite quickly, leaving corp-held stations behind for the alliance to have to deal with on top of the sov war they were already fighting.

One corp in particular, Eve Protection Agency, started to draw members of other corps into itself. On a couple of occasions, Abh Empire members were courted to come join EPA, culminating with an invitation to fold our entire corp into theirs as they made plans to exit IRC to do something new, better, tighter and more pvp-focused.

Now, bcpro has his fans and he has his detractors. Personally, I get along with him, but as many can attest, I get along with almost everybody. As a bomber FC, he's knowledgeable. Having double- and triple-box scouted under his leadership during our southern wars, I'd come to get how he operates and to appreciate his military acumen. But I've been involved in real-world mergers enough to know that a clash of cultures would have been inevitable had we taken the deal. Besides, Abh Empire itself has a long history that its members are proud of, and I believed hanging up the corp ticker wouldn't fly with the membership, let alone the directors. As it turned out I was quite right.

But forget all that. During the meeting with my corp CEO and I in which bcpro proposed Abh merge into EPA to do new and exciting things post-IRC, the first and main thing I heard in my own head was, "There goes the last Senior FC; time to evac the remainder of our corp's assets!"  (Yes, my inner monologue includes semicolons.)

And so that brings us to today. As I write this, all of my characters are strung out across multiple regions, lighting cynos for corp members, scouting routes, scanning for wormholes. We have not, as of this writing, officially withdrawn from the alliance, but that will likely have happened by the time this is published. Only hours ago EPA made their withdrawal official, making them the fifteenth corp to leave the alliance since HB-5 fell on December 8th.

It remains to be seen where Oldma will take IRC next. He may manage to get new corporations to come in and help hold part of Cobalt Edge for a time, but probably not. More likely he'll relocate the shrunken organization to Oasa, and make W5-V his new home. Or perhaps we will see a reengineered IRC hooking up with one of the other few non-CFC, non-HBC nulsec groups, like Red Alliance. Who knows? Hopefully the next version will let go of its isolationist inclinations and rules against talking in local, posting publicly, and generally attracting attention. Or not. Those, too, seem to be scarring from their previous trauma in Etherium Reach all those years ago. But knowing Oldma and the people in AWECO, I expect one way or another this isn't the last we'll hear of Intrepid Crossing.

The IRC that I joined as a six-week-old Eve player on July 7, 2011, no longer exists. I loved my time in IRC. I'm proud of what IRC has done, and of my own corp's long history with them going back well before I started playing Eve. And I wish them well in whatever new form they take up. But many of the people I came to like and respect and enjoy fighting alongside have moved on to Black Legion, Ethereal Dawn, Walltreipers Alliance, SCDOT, Nulli Legio, and other alliances. So this no longer feels like home.

Good luck, Oldma, and thanks for the fun.

 

 

[name_1]
History geek, hacker of social systems, and chill guy, Reverend Mak has had alts in the HBC, CFC, and former DRF, among others. A born troublemaker, his favorite real-life subversive moment was his guest spot on an anti-government Iranian broadcast.