The Perpetually Unprepared

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I concede extremely high skill points might become a problem in regards to clone costs but for the most part you really shouldn't lose many pods in RvB thus it's a perfectly fine place to run a high SP character in t1 cruisers/frigs/destroyers. Obviously running a full HG pirate set is still dumb without experience but that's the case with or without the SP.
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I will say this - reading this article made me uncomfortable; and for one reason only - because this article was meant for me. I am of the mindset that I will never be ready. I don't think I'm better than blobs, I don't think I'm so good that I should only do solo PvP. I have never just gone and PvPed. EVE does an extremely good job of making you feel the consequences of your actions, so the thought of losing my ship has always given me pause. But, in light of recent strides in my own EVE career to branch out, perhaps it is time to throw caution to the wind, and do as this article suggests - take on a new challenge. Thanks for writing this.
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There alot of other factors involved, but you've hit one on its head,
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You should indeed throw caution to the wind. If you have a high skill point character then you already possess the ability to put the ISK back into your wallet losing the ship will cost you. There's only two things that you have to remember when you go out to PVP.1. It is always "OK" to get blown up.2. It is never to late to start.
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Still, RvB shouldn't be the only "safe" place in the whole of EvE to PVP if one is overly concerned about clone costs... costs which really aren't trivial if you're SP-rich but truly ISK-poor. The solution is to get rid of, or vastly reduce these costs. They serve no practical purpose for the player, and only as a ISK sink for the game.
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#2 is what strikes a chord with me. Thank you for this. I find more and more that it is as they say "when you are ready to listen, you will find many willing to teach." This community is so great for that, it makes me extremely grateful.
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interesting article. while i cannot really relate to the 'not prepared' mentality, i can certainly understand it. one aspect you did not mention explicitly is the fact that 'being not ready' is often not a 'reason' to not PvP but much rather an excuse people give when they are not aware of the real reasons themselves.
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Good article.What it lacks ist a mention of "engageability" and "expectation management", concepts which even a lot of seasoned PvPers dont understand.Flying something cheap, sub-par or outright shitty may yield better and more fun PvP engagements because your opponents expectations of your ships capabilities will be lower than they actually are, given proper preparation.The simplest example of that is flying t1 frigates in 0.0 - a lot of the residents will assume thats its a travelling cyno-alt which cant put out any resistance at all.
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When i joined a nullsec pvp alliance my CEO told me i should fly friggs only for awhile to get the hang of it.. you don't wana lose a say a Maelstrom without even knowing what you done wrong was his words .....first off pvp in nullsec scale very well in most alliancesas long as you can make the isk needed for nullsec life i sugest that you move out there.the isk can come from ratting in belts that you can do with a BC size ship or a stealthbomber with is in my oppinion around 3m old ... so stick to Highsec for atleast 3month but move to null.sure you be lacking your +5 implants but who cares.. you get to play with other players ....the 99% of highsec players will probl. not join nullsec but for the 1% that are thinking ... perhaps ... i can just say DO IT ... but do some research first ... joining wrong corp / group can get you in a bad place. as your reputation is all you realy got in eve.
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Slashers and Eagles are truly dangerous.
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#1 is even more important, most people (if not all) don't like losing ships, especially in a - so called - stupid manner (like falling for that obvious bait Arazu, getting raped on a gatecamp) but you need to remember that being destroyed is the ultimate reason behind existence of every ship and piece of equipment in EVE. Why keep them from reaching their ultimate goal?
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if you are sp rich then being space poor shouldn't really be an issue especially if you aren't doing pvp.
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Gosh...this is like a spiritual awakening haha. "I must send all my ships to their ultimate goal in their life!" Thank you, I really need to stop worrying so much about how my killboard will look. I've never PvPed, but I suspect even if I were to join a PvP corp, I would not want to be involved with ~elite~ and ~srsbizness~ PvP.
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Once you start to fly - your KB will be red, but after a while you will start seeing some lonely green rows, then more and more of them. I've been playing this game for over 3 years now, my first kill was a drake I whored on with my bomber, while a friendly gang was killing it, up till that moment I managed to lose over 20 ships with fits so bad, they're better not mentioned. Remember that eve learning curve drawing? That's great to show how difficult it is to learn pvp, but you WILL learn if only you will fly. No way around it :).
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Hi all. I'm trying to break out of being one of these people. I've been playing for 18 months. I told myself when I started playing that I would play for a few months, get some isk and sp, and then get into pvp. I came to eve with no prior knowledge or RL friends in game. After 3 months I felt like I had only figured out how much I didn't know. Flash forward a year and I have a much better understanding of the game and much better in-game resources. I'm trying to get out there in null and get into some fights. The things I worry about are getting blobbed to the point that I don't have time to learn anything before I lose my ship. Also that my noobish attempts will encourage red roams in the neighborhood. One thing that wasn't mentioned in the article is that it is hard to get into pvp other than solo if you are not active on a voice chat channel. I think many players who would like to get into pvp are socially isolated. The biggest thing that I've had to realize is that if I'm not just going to go out solo and deal with the results, I'm going to have to stop being shy and get into some team work.
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There are plenty of good reasons you've mentioned, but one I feel you forgot is fear. Fear of losing something and then having yout director/corp etc hammer on you for days on end about your loss. "What were you thinking?", "Why is it fit like that", "You're a terrible player", etc etc. Now derps do happen, and they happen often. But I have heard Directors yelling at a guy for 20 minutes for losing a rifter. What do you think it makes the Rifter Pilot think about?...yep, thats right...."If I don't PVP, then I lose nothing which means I don;t get bitched at"My whole attitude is, was and has been its only pixels. Try convincing some of the KB nazis of that tho.
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If you're in a corp that would unironically haze you for losing a ship while actually PVPing then you should probably switch corps.If you die in a hilariously stupid way though you should laugh with them, after all it's jsut a game (and you're clearly terrible at it so you may as well have fun).
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If you're not already in one join a PvP corp that actually does null sec PvP.Losing ships is good and all but what you really need is advice, and the best way to get that is by learning with friends. Even if you're all equally as bad, the point is one of you will stumble upon a good tip and they can share it.
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As a relatively new player who just made the leap into nullsec, I highly recommend just looking hard for a good corp - preferably where you have some out-of-game connection to people - and taking the leap. To start off, you don't even need to move all your space junk out to null. Just make sure you've got a decent wallet, the ability to make rudimentary amounts of isk (salvaging behind your more experienced corp mates is a great place to start), and either an alliance with the capability to supply ships, or the skills to get your own out via jump frieghter / carrier / whatever. Or you can find a corp that's based out of high / lowsec and just roams into null, smashing gate camps and getting hot-dropped along the way.Have only been out a week, but so far, the experience has been highly engaging. Good group of people, multiple roams a day (including a noob ship thunderdome which I almost didn't lose terribly at), and I made back all I spent on fitting stuff in 2 hours of salvaging sites (Faction battleships I have not)!
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I've been in 5 Alliances in mt EVE Tenure that always seem to have one or more guys up there that is/are the KB Nazi's. But I do agree with you 100% inquisitor, Dying hilariously is something to be not only laughed at but used as a training tool...for instance the guys that fly with PLEX etc.A 5-10 Mil loss is nothing in the great realm of things, but I have seen Directors tear into guys for those while letting "vets" with Billions in losses slide with a gentle punch to the arm and a "well, that's just how he is". What I honestly believe this is is that Many Directors are kids with no real world experience in life with Jobs etc. Alot of the older players have to eat shit at work daily and look forward to EVE-time as their relaxation time. Having an 18 year old scream bloody murder at me from his Dorm room just ain't on the table hell, it isn't even in the menu.I just think that if Corps/Alliances would lighten up just a smidgeon, tell their players to have fun, Derps happen but if you learn from em its ok that we'd have a much tighter game. I Unsubbed all my characters a few months ago and am considering coming back, but as you suggested in a new group.
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If you ever get a director shouting at you, for losing YOUR OWN ship then you should ridicule that person for being an idiot and leave the corp. Losing a ship is enough of an emotional experience without some faggot giving you crap about it.
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A few years ago this was me to the (T). What changed my mind was getting into playing rogue-like games outside of EVE. Games such as Dwarf Fortress, Dungeon Crawl Stone Soup, and Powder...games where the point is literally to lose with the oft refrain 'Losing is Fun' I joined a nullsec alliance and learned the ropes. kil2 readily changed my mind about solo/small gang PVP with the refrain...you have to learn how to lose ships...a lot of them...Now all I do is look for good fights and good targets in my eve life...it is where I was meant to be.
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Sounds like you should leave :elitepvp: alliances an just join the CFC or HBC...Shoot blues errday
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This is a tough topic as "getting involved" in null-sec pvp can have its own pitfalls.The first thing I'd do is go to the corp your interested in killboard, it can be in any alliance,don't get stuck on null politics and propoganda as a new null-sec resident. At the killboard look you want to look for;1) The killboard should NOT have alot of Sov structure or PoS kills. This is NOT pvp, this is soul crushing tedium, and will turn a new player off to null-sec faster than anything.2) Ship kills should NOT be shuttles, newb ships, pods or t1 frigates. You want to see them fighting fights.3) Kills ideally have 15-30 (or if you want a bit more size 20-60) ships on it max. This will help you be less a f1 monkey, and initiative can still pay off.- After your in and lost and just doing what your told, ask in corp "Why?" what your being told to do is right in a friendly and inquistive manner. Your goal is to understand how and why things are done, not just follow orders.- Keep a 2nd account with your lvl 4 npc or 1-man corp lvl 4 mission runner on it for isk. This will allow you to always be ready to particpate in Pvp with your new corp/alliance.
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My first kill was a pod in highsec while I was waiting for my application with nothing else to do. Second killmail listing my name was an Archon next day. I'm not exaggerating. I even managed to get another pod and a couple of other kills before losing my newbie Rifter.Now when I undock my own carrier to join a capfleet op I just consider it lost forever. It still feels strange to dock it back because that's the way I learned to PvP: you undock, jump somewhere, get in a fight, get some kills, lose your ship, self-destruct your pod and get back in a fight in a new ship you expect to lose just as fast. Stop worrying about losing, Just charge, it's way more fun. You won't become broke from losing a cheap T1 ship and you are ready as soon as you logged in for the first time.
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On the first point, it's best to pay attention to what they generally use to kill sov structures or POS. There's nothing wrong with a group that does a lot of sov grinding, as long as they do it efficiently (i.e. a massive fleet or with capitals) rather than having 30 dudes in tier 3 BCs do that kind of heavy lifting.If you're joining a "blob alliance" it's best to ask if they require members to show up for fleets rather than giving them some leeway. There's nothing wrong with joining a large fleet if you like that kind of thing.
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You don't need months to skill into a bomber, and they're relatively cheap to boot.
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I don't routinely roam solo looking for a fight, but I fit my ship for solo roaming when I travel. I've been caught in a drag bubble while moving a Rapier cyno, and then engaged by a Sabre and Falcon. Normally, this would have cost me a Rapier, but I managed to get the dude to buzz off when I threw drones on him.In another case, I was moving my Hurricane through Delve and I was tackled by a Cynabal. I had friendly newbie tackle on the way to help, but the dude ran away when I was doing serious damage to him :(
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Well, I actually like more losing ships in a stupid manner than just pure bad luck. There just isn't anything to learn from bad luck and in worst case you may think you lost your ship because of stupidity, not just bad luck. Okay, it's always little bit about stupidity too, but if you don't take your chances on 50-50 situations, you end up playing PVP almost as boring way you play PVE
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Agreed. As I'd love to zip around having reckless fun in a meta 0 fit frigate, the thought of having to slog through Syndicate's terrible truesec to harvest 20M worth of rat bounties puts me off the idea entirely. It's not like I make isk any faster today with 78M SP than I did at 30M SP, but clone costs certainly scale as though I could.
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EWar ("Neuting. 'Nossing. Bubbles, warps, all the cool electronic stuff") is an integral part of PvP though, just as much as shooting is.Sounds to me like you're not really one of the "perpetually unprepared" simply because you're getting involved. Also not such a minority either, plenty of people get involved in PvP (including EWar) around the 3-4 month mark.
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A big problem? Sounds to me like on of EVE's greatest strengths. It's all part of the dance to hide what you have and make your opponent think they have the upper hand when they don't (or that they don't when they do). There is a real art to engaging targets that you can defeat and avoiding targets that will defeat you."they are trying to create a situation that is unwinnable for you and that is all" Exactly my point. The part of this you seem to be missing is that you should be doing the same thing to them.
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Something that you typed in your first sentence demonstrates an underlying problem that is easily solved: YOU are not a 90+M SP character. You are a person who enjoys playing this terrible spaceship game. You can always train another character. Heck, you can stop training your current account and train it up on there, or you can send yourself a buddy invite and get 51 days worth of second accound for the cost of 1 PLEX.So train that new character, hope in your T1 frigate of choice, and go pick fights. Join RvB, roam nullsec, hunt down Faction War people, and die. Then do it again. Keep fighting, keep dying. Buy 30 T1 frigates, fit them out, and reserve judgement until you have lost all 30. The worst outcome is that you just spent about 90 million on ships and wasted a couple weeks of Eve time, didn't enjoy it, and won't do it again. More likely is that you will learn to enjoy PvP, and by the time you get through those 30 ships, you'll wonder how you ever enjoyed running missions in the first place.
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Get 20 Tech 1 frigates. Pick a hull that looks fun. Do some research on fitting it. Grab some cheap fittings, fit them up and go out and lose them. As soon as you undock that ship is gone. Now, go lose every single one of them.
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This article is spot on. I'm very fortunate that I chose to dive into PVP from almost day 1. I lost a lot of pixels, especially at first and even now I wouldn't say I'm great at it, merely ok. But that early and continual practice helped, in my opinion far more that carebearing for a year and then trying pvp out.
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No one worth your time gives a damn about how your killboard looks - it is merely an e-peen measurement tool for those so inclined. In fact, a negative killboard can be very good for you, as it can lead pilots to severely underestimate you.The sort of player who throws 150 rifters into lowsec and always wakes up in a clone bay will have the sort of killboard that leads a highsec "PvPer" to believe he is incompetent - but he also has leagues of experience that ganker never got by sitting on undocks.
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Bombers are an interesting suggestion. They're hard to fly, but once you master them, you've learned a whole lot that other ships simply cannot teach. Though it would probably be for the best if you practice launching bombs and know how decloaking works before jumping into a bomber gang.
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A hearty "go fuck yourself" is in order for anyone like that.
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and then posting the tears on TM.com
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Good article Andski
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There are plenty of roles in large fleets in which a single failure can be significant enough to lose a battle. Anti-support, logistics, dictors, firewall... need I go on?
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"I was pretty shaken the first couple times I lost a ship and I wanted to get away from it." This happens to everyone, just as every PvP newbie has his heart beating like a hammer and his hands shaking during a couple of first fights. This is NORMAL, this is why we do it :) To get our "fix". The bigger the challenge, the bigger the emotions, and when you're just starting, even flying a rifter or merlin is challenging, when you know the enemy is governed by a brain and not a script...
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people are just F*cking e-pansys . they run from a fight ingame like they would run from a RL fight.besides that . the only valid excuse is the time consumed by hour long roams .
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PersonalI advice going the weekend warrior method, as in on Saturday morning jump cloning to a rifter and then running with fleet all weekend, till sunday were you jump back into your heavy cybernetics clone and go back mission running in the week. That way you don't lose much if you die (and you will) and you can learn how not to die in something unimportant.
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T1 tackle frigs ARE ewar platforms. They aren't there for the guns.
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Lol.. Why leave the corp? Ridicule him to hell, and stay.. make all of corpies see him like an idiot
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But the ISK you lose in Eve is usually your personal investment. The only case when I would take a shouting from my mates is if I lost a corp capital or something.
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Well, what I meant was, is I didn't just want to try it once and be done in case I liked it. I wanted all my ducks in a row and wanted to just be prepared for all eventualities.
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Then apply to our corps-you'll be fine!
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And where is the fun of doing that?Isn't it better to fit nano and stabs on a frig and then go and waste the time of those people that try to kill you by bouncing celestials when they almost probed you down?It is for me ... the trash talk in local it is amazing.Instead of wasting my time looking for a fight i can win i would rather waste PvPers time :P
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Maybe follow their lead. It's a legitimate strategy. Get some friends, get a titan, fit a cyno.
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The good carebear is a carebear who emphasizes on the 'bear' part of their name. Nothing like trying to grief a carebear only for said carebear to send out combat ships to kill you while your timer is up, and then have it escalate into a full-fledged brawl.
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Blackbirds !
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If some moron fits the wrong bomb type... ugh
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But.. I did. I even got accepted. I remember when you joined even. You been drinking too much Fiery?

One common theme on the EVE forums is the large number of players who do not engage in PvP. Players cite a variety of reasons, whether they are “unready”, they "don’t have the time” or it isn’t their “playstyle”. The other reason that is usually not cited is aversion to risk, which is usually covered up by one of the excuses above or a dismissal of EVE’s PvP mechanics as “too simple” or “PvP is invariably dominated by blobs regardless of where it takes place”. For the most part, these reasons have their merits - some players simply do not enjoy the prospect of losing and others may simply not have the spare time to take part in an all-night roaming op. However, one of those reasons has a tendency to stick out: "I am not ready for PvP." Many of those who cite that reason can be found running missions or incursions in T3s and faction battleships. Those are the "perpetually unprepared", those who despite having played the game for years, feel that they are not at a point where they can take part in PvP.

Perpetual Unpreparedness

The notion that one needs to be “ready” to engage in PvP is trivial to disprove given the fact that one can tackle anything short of a supercarrier with a T1 frigate. This fact is usually dismissed by the “perpetually unprepared" crowd - many of them will loudly proclaim that they will never be “bound servants of the blob”, loftily placing themselves above those consider “mindless F1 monkeys”. Their goal is to start with solo PvP, despite it being a very costly exercise for an inexperienced player unless one is flying disposable ships.

The perpetually unprepared will then go one of two ways. In one, they attribute their failure to something else, whether it’s being outnumbered, local chat, bubbles, Falcons, connection lag, CCP or the Almighty’s will. They mistakenly believe that they’re fully prepared. After all, they have the skillpoints and they’re flying today’s flavor of the month, so they’re obviously the best! In the other, they revert to the “not yet prepared” phase, planning to return with more skills trained and a new flavor of the month ship.

This mentality originates in MMOs where a max-level player equipped with the best gear can effortlessly take on lower leveled players even with a rudimentary understanding of the game, a mentality incompatible with EVE’s principle of diminishing returns. This mentality also stems from PvP-oriented organizations with high skillpoint minimums in their recruitment requirements, a practice which gives players the idea that one is useless in PvP without years of skill training. 

While higher skillpoints and a superior ship can generally lead to success in a one-on-one situation, player skill remains a factor. Knowing how to get out of a fight, using tools such as the map and the directional scanner, understanding your ship's capabilities and assessing your situation when engaging another player all require a thorough understanding of game mechanics and a degree of experience, which cannot be made up for with expensive ships and traded characters. These are the aspects of the game that one learns with time, aspects of the game which are rarely if ever useful in PvE and thus disregarded by most players.

Escalating Costs, Escalating Challenges

As the perpetually unprepared accumulate skillpoints and ISK, learning the ropes of PvP in a T1 frigate becomes less practical due to the way clone costs scale. While a more prudent player would train a frigate alt on a throwaway buddy invite account and join the likes of Red vs. Blue, the perpetually unprepared continue to dive into PvP situations in expensive ships with clones loaded with hardwirings before they end up joining a major nullsec alliance, deciding that they’re “not cut out for PvP” or simply unsubscribing out of boredom.

This is a mistake that many players make. Acquiring massive amounts of ISK and SP and purchasing whatever ship is the current flavor of the month does not augment one’s PvP abilities; lacking PvP experience when first flying setups only ever guarantees an expensive lossmail. Expensive ships with augmented capabilities are only more challenging to utilize to their fullest potential, and taking on new challenges is what EVE is about.

[name_1]
I write and proofread for TM.com. My focus is largely on EVE's new player experience and nullsec-related topics. If you wish to contact me, my Twitter account is @EVEAndski.