No Penises Allowed: EVE's Exclusionary Spaces

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Its a bit out of line saying that a girls only chat room is sexist. It's like saying i have to take a piss next to chicks doing there makeup...........
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'Female' is an adjective, not a noun.
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This is stupid. I play EVE too relax and wind down. I'll be damned if I have to put up with political correctness in my EVE too.
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Are you trolling, or can you not tell what the CFCNPA is really for?
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I know absolutely nothing about the dynamics of CFCNPA or CFC interest groups in general. I'm a newer Eve player, and, heck, I'm a casual hi-sec carebear at to boot who's last experience in low involved exploding in a hilariously preventable fashion (Wait, you mean to tell me that I shouldn't go through Gonditsa in a non-PvP fit ship? Who knew?) . I just wanted to get that out of the way before saying anything, so that the Internet can have its ad hominem ammunition immediately. Really, don't waste your time reading the rest of this if any of that matters to you.I've read this article a few times now. I initially thought it was an article in support of the group, but after reading the couple paragraphs under the "Sexist, Discriminatory Cows" section, I'm not entirely certain what the intentions of the author were. Am I supposed to believe that this group is a sexist step backwards for women that is necessary because of a culture that is hostile towards women (and honestly, generally hostile) in Eve? Again, after reading the article a few times, I'm still not certain.No matter the purpose of the article or the intention of the author, I think calling a group sexist for being exclusively for women is a little too much. I'll leave it at that, I don't want to wade into an "Internet Debate" over political correctness, semantics, and a host of other issues. I'm going to do something very un-Internet like and give the author the benefit of doubt and assume I'm just misunderstanding what he wrote.Also, "Sexist Discriminatory Cows?" Look. That phrase completely out of context is pretty terrible. Not as terrible as many things on the Internet, but terrible enough not to be used in polite company.That's all I've got, I don't want to be too critical. I must just be missing something.
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tl;dr girls are cool players too, so be nice to the ladies, you sick fucks.
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It's full of goon women so "sexist discriminatory cows" fits.
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How about we play Eve Online: A Internet Spaceship Game and let people do their own thing without being half-assed morally righteous about it?Not everything has to be a goddamn statement or movement.
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In the blog you linked, I think they ended up deciding to use "Bubble Wrapping" as a replacement for "Rapecage".I actually rather like the replacement term, it's such a fun-sounding name for something that is decidedly unfun for those inside the bubblewrap.
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Yeah that's all well and good until he goes on to bash the women of eve for being sexist. Somebody just needs to pick a direction.
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At first I thought that paragraph was supposed to be a quote or paraphrase, but I don't see any attribution.Either way, there's nothing sexist about having a women-only social space. (Strictly speaking it is "discriminatory," but only in the same way that any membership criteria would be.)Speaking as a CFC member, most of the backlash against this move seems to come from people who enjoy the locker-room atmosphere and are threatened by any suggestion that it isn't totally awesome or that people should be permitted to avoid it.
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This was me, and in my haste to change my avatar (thanks Gravatar) I somehow deleted my ability to edit the post for a few flagrant typos. Ah well. My inner grammar Nazi should be more careful when typing out things initially, and the post is largely intelligible, so that's okay.
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the irony is that it sounds so harmless and happy when the reality is that murder awaits them.
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This article is completely inappropriate and to be completely honest, pretty fucked up. "Sexist, Discriminatory Cows" really? "They become sexist cows, practicing reverse discrimination". What the actual fuck?This is quite possibly the worst article I have ever seen on this site and I feel pretty sick for ever supporting it.There are a few channels in the entirety of the game that the typical white, middle aged man of EVE can't throw his sexist remarks in and you want to label them as "reverse discrimination". It's disgusting and you should feel bad.
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"Waaaaaaa, I don't want anyone calling me out for my sexist and racist remarks".
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I think it's good to have some discussion of gender issues in EVE, it's obviously an issue with such low numbers of women subbing.There could be a critical mass issue, that if there were more women it would be easier for more to join.I think if the game were to be marketed to women it would be good to emphasize the importance of the social aspects, EVE is basically a social endeavour with the teams with the better social skills generally rising above the awkward isolationists (look at the mittani, all his success is based on social skills).When the game is marketed as "shoot ships in space" I can see how that's not very appealing to women.
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Then why read an article about political correctness in Eve? Unless you have masochistic tendencies.
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quote ".. women and other gender- or sex-based minorities.." unquote
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Thereby insinuating that female gamers somehow have special needs when it comes to social interaction within virtual space. You know what I do when I find a group of people who'd humor I don't appreciate or who's outlook I find juvenile? I find someone else to play with.The culture in the HBC, and, to a limited extent in the CFC, is all about immature, misogynistic childish. If you have a problem with that, perhaps you should find another group, rather than forming a special snowflake no boys allowed ultra mature support group.
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Is there an opening to discuss gender and other minorities in EVE? Yes.Is this article the right thing to do it? Not in the slightest.It's incredibly poorly written (what *is* the actual point it's trying to make, anyway?), and pulls random slurs, soundbites, and NSFW links out of nowhere without actually bothering to explain why they're being brought up or what purpose, if any, the author actually has for including them.Basically, I can find no real use for this article beyond being a sensational piece of tripe trying to jump on the "we need more girls in EVE!" bandwagon. It's a few oft-repeated points (most of the EVE population is male, this leads to women often feeling isolated, there's a lot of sex-based language involved which doesn't help) with a bunch of rambling tacked on the side.... not to mention a weird sideswipe at trans women.
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Bad article. I think some people confuse lack of politeness, e.g. use of terms like "rape cage" with politically correct garbage like "My intention is not to disparage transgendered individuals. However, identifying as female is not the same thing as being cis-female: someone who was born female and who has lived as a woman within any socio-cultural context her entire life."
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My girlfriend plays eve with me, and while she'd never say anything on coms or make a fuss, when we are 'rape caging' a POS she often mutters about how unpleasant that phrase is.I have to admit I get a bit uneasy with 'space jew' comments as well.I don't think its so much an issue of sexism as general 'the internet revolves around me and I'm non-Jewish white male aged 25-40'. People expect to say things they don't find offensive but find amusing without the requirement to consider the people around them they would (hopefully) feel in real life.
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If you're interested in this subject take a look at the Iron Ribbon initiative:http://www.ironribbon.org.au/More details about it can be found here:http://www.polygon.com/2012/11...
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They aren't "special" needs, they're the same needs and expectations that male gamers have, except that ours are met. We don't get constant shit for having penises and our entire environment is based on the assumption that everyone around us is male.
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Unless you're at the receiving end of that action.
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Clearly you've never been on a fleet op with DBRB.
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That's because, statistically, they are. Regardless, the point stand. If you don't like who you pay with, play with someone else. Exclusionist subgroups are an unnecessary and inflammatory solution to a simple problem.
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That's bullshit. Anyone that isn't a white male shouldn't have to "go away and play with someone else". Just because you don't know how to interact with anyone outside your race and gender doesn't mean you should be pat on the back about it.If anything, the HBC and the CFC need more of these groups, hopefully they gain more traction and maybe one day they become so large they can squash the bigotry right out of the game. Until then though, these groups do need to exist.
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You're contradicting yourself. "Play with someone else" and "don't form exclusionary groups" contradict. If I want to find players I want to play with, and together we form an exclusionary groups (which ...ALL GUILDS AND CORPORATIONS ARE), then everyone is happy.Your advice is for them to just leave the game? Or to find players with similar interests? If it's the latter, it seems CFCNPA has done just that and I don't see why anyone should be bothered.
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My alliance is in the HBC and I fly often with test and PL. Which are almost always good fleets. What gets me though all too often are the homophobic, racist, sexist and NAZI remarks. And if you say anything about it you get a comment like "I'm gay too and don't have a problem with it so STFU". I'm happy that my alliance has a lot less of that and we also get praised by HBC members flying with us about our civilized coms.But the problem is just often with the talk, if you don't do something about it early on, it's going to degenerate fast.
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Agreeing with the sentiment of several others: This is one of the worst articles ever written on the Mittani, which I think usually has insightful posts.You should really learn the subject matter a bit more and you should also focus the point of your article a bit more. As it stands, you're just throwing around terms and phrases without a perspective to operate from. Or at least the current perspective is that you dislike these exclusive groups and have some weird feelings about transgendered persons. I couldn't figure it out.But very poorly written, poorly thought out article.
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Look. Why don't we just act like there's no problem? Stop trying to fix stuff all the time.
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This article is like an iteron 3 full of nanoribbons in highsec - it either tries to get somewhere and fails or doesn't go anywhere at all.1/5, would not read again.
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Basically all these (white) male-centric behaviours are due to the playing demographic. If more women played, it would be a more welcoming place for women. Kinda of a chicken and egg issue, which is why they are not easy to break.You'd think with the age demographic, EVE players would be more mature. Personally, I don't understand this behavior. I find pretty much any activity, whether at work or with friends, goes much better when both genders (and in-between too, it is something of a spectrum after all) are present, even if not necessarily balanced. It just makes for a more pleasant atmosphere. I guess most of us prefer to cocoon ourselves and exclude anything that smells of differentness.
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If they were "unnecessary," EVE wouldn't be 95% male in the first place. These groups are perfectly appropriate until the EVE mainstream is no longer (effectively) exclusionist.I also refuse to abandon the best aspects of CFC culture (newbie assistance, minimal rules and no mandatory ops, griefing people with legitimately terrible opinions) just because a subgroup of current players can't let go of the good ol' boys club.
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I read the above as an open an honest debate concerning discrimination in eve online, as any good debate it considered both sides of the argument. I think the below best states the considered opinion of the author:"SIGs should be formed around game-based activities, shared interests, shared languages, or mutual enjoyment of each other’s company. Groups based on gender or sexuality should be unnecessary in EVEspace"I entirely agree, and group who purposely excludes individuals because of who they are is bad!
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http://tinyurl.com/stopusingsl... is something that I started circulating around Provibloc to encourage people to stop being racist/sexist/homophobic assholes. It's largely worked in terms of cleaning up intel and coalition fleet channels -- most people are doing it due to permeation of the general EVE culture rather than because they themselves are assholes, and challenging people to think about their word choices and behavior has caused them to realize how assholeish they were in the past and to change.Agreed with Amber though, plz to be less sensationalist and backhanded in the future.
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this is really an issue?.... how bad is goon chats O_o... never been a goon so no clue >_>
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Also: The contest on my blog has ended, although any input is still welcome.
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We need to make this trend. Screw rapecages, bubblewrap for the win. Can you imagine the carebears?
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It's almost as if this entire article was written about people like you.Whether you're really like this, or are just trying to be edgy by pretending to, is immaterial, btw.
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For clarification: no, buddy, it is you that is stupid.
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What a wast of time reading this article.I'm a male and if women want to make a channel or corp or alliance for only their use then good on them.I think you are just jealous and spiteful that you cant join them.
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There are few surer signs that someone is sexist than when they break this grammatical convention.Being totally serious, btw.
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In EVE, one of the best ways to force a fight is to anger or distract an opponent into making a mistake. Offensive slurs and links like your totally unnecessary Brighton Sauna link there are a textbook example of a cheap troll. If the game feels like a locker room, that's because the currency of trolling is going to be the sort of thing that will upset the majority of straight able-bodied cisgendered anglo-saxon males. And locker rooms have always been nervous, testosterone-ridden places of grandstanding and dominance wielding in some combative form or another.That's not to excuse or hide the fact that some proportion of EVE players really are just horrible dehumanising idiots with no regard for the feelings of others or the community as a whole.EVE's persistent demographic has grown from word-of-mouth and friends already capable of playing recruiting one another. The stretch required to make sense and profit out of a harsh universe means you have an easier time of sticking with the game if you've been college-educated, have a powerful computer, lots of free time, can afford a few months of sub, a decent internet connection, and can get some randomly met fraction of the existing demographic to sympathise and co-operate with you in a way beyond asking for naked pictures. All things which modern western society can more surely guarantee to men than to women.That safe spaces are important and useful is not up for debate, no matter the nature of the maligned group. Amend your article with an apology. Thanks for the publicity.
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Clearly you must have issues not saying those things out of Eve as well. Therefore you need to change and learn that saying those words is not appropriate in any setting. Sure the gaming community is more accepting of those things, but even that is changing now.
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However they may enjoy playing with those people but not for long amounts of time. Its not inflammatory, its like alliances only allowing you to join if you are from somewhere, meet some age restriction, on a certain forum or from a certain website. Do you think that goons are an exclusionist subgroup because you have to come from the SA forums to be a part of them?
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Do you guys and gals remember when Star Fraction dismantled BOB in the Alliance Tournament with a pack of blaster Thoraxes? That was sweet.Also, the issue here is more relevant to troll culture (prevelent in the CFC) than say, Eve's player base at large. For example, I'm guessing RnKs doesn't have this issue as much.
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On a DBRB fleet op, the first thing to do is to mute DBRB in your mumble if you are even remotely interested in keeping a shred of your initial sanity - then again, you ARE in a DBRB fleet op, which already says something about your supposed sanity... Still better to follow broadcasts and/or try to guess where the hell people are warping off than listening to him going on and on and ON AND ON AND AYYYREHIRGIOAGRTAURTTTTTTTTT......................
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While I don't agree with the need for the OP to apologize for insulting "the demographics that play EVE," this is a very good post because every single thing you say here is absolutely true.
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You keep mentioning white, but that isn't the issue here. Stop conflating things.
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rape is not gender or race specific.
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The impotent babydicked rage over the creation of that SIG was funny but I don't think its existence is necessary. it might be necessary to crack down on the creepy weirdos who make being a woman in the CFC or eve online at-large such a miserable experience, because fuck these autists and neckbeards who do this shit. There's no reason we should tolerate harassment towards anyone. Those kinds of people are the ones who should be ostracized, and we should not be allowing people to divide themselves on racial, gender, or other social lines, as that just entrenches the problem. If a woman is leading a fleet and some dumbass from some shitty 4chan or reddit corp shouts "tits or gtfo", he should become shoot on sight. The answer is to punish people who make others uncomfortable, not to separate women or whoever else from the general population.i'm not heavily invested either way, but i think we just need to start punishing creepy useless shitheads instead of corralling any conceivable minority into its own group.
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If someones using a set of rules to determine who can be a part of a chat channel is wrong all of eve should be sharing one giant local chat channel... if anyone really think thats what discrimination is they are sorely misguided.Shold men be allowed to use the womens change room?
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Neither I nor the author said rules cannot be used to determine who is allowed to join a chat channel, what part of my last comment did you not understand?
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It's used as both, just like "male."
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In the way of EvE:Deal with it.
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Man, there are channels and groups for everything. No big deal. If there is a dedicated group within an entity that's only for women (real women I mean, not those who think they are female), that's absolutely understandable - especially when I listen to the weird stuff in TS directed to our girls or read in forums about it. I mean, EVE is like a flat of a single man. Beer all over the place, burps and farts, nudity posters on the wall, talks about tits etc.Sidenote: If someone opens a chan for the boys who "think" they are female, that's fine by me. If these boys try to mask themselves as woman, that's plain creepy...
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The fact a lot of people likely read this and said to themselves "women play eve?" is enought to show the fail of the SIGs. If more females joined regular corps and alliances with a male population then the male player base will find the female players as capable and enjoyable as any other eve capsuleer. When the random female joins a group of all males right now a lot of those guys I believe deal with a sort of shock and uncertainty. Some are mature and can handle it but others act as immature children solely because they think its such a rare thing...when in actuality it not. I fly with 2 females in eve regularly, when some noob kid comes in and freaks out as if he discovered his first boner we are sure to correct and warn them.Tldr; females hiding in SIGs are only strengthening the ignorant discrimination and sexist remarks by not allowing the male player base to interact with them; which ultimately would dispel a lot of these issues I believe. Average age is 27..there are plenty of mature corps and alliances of female respecting males with wives and children. Sorry but I don't believe Mega alliances will fulfill this role however as the teens and college kids flock to them.
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You realize "sexist" is not only for men against women right ? As this group refuse men, it's sexist by definition, as it doesn't accept another sex to join.And seriously, from some fleets I did, I understand pretty well why some girls want a peaceful chan.
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seriously, it is a lot safer/quiet to just pretend as a guy, and maybe dont talk much on com unless it is truly necessary (DONT VOLUNTEER TO BE A SCOUT)I found the newly acquired attention is somewhat... troublesome, since I've got enough to worry about IRL/ingame, I really don't want to worry about all those extra craps. so the easiest thing to do is just pretend to be a quiet nobody.then it all ends when you jump into a titan....
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More fascism from the thought police?This fermenting turd pops to the surface again and again like some sort of liquid metal super fuking terminator turd from the future that won't rest until we all think the same smiley happy purple dinosaur thoughts and give up our right to free thought.This poison spreads like the fukking zerg creep in SC2, only it never reeceds just reducing everything it touches to mulch. NOT EVERYTHING IN LIFE IS ABOUT YOUR FUKKING SOCIAL GENOCIDE OF THOUGHT AGENDA. Some of us actually live our lives not based on your agenda, but on living our fukking lives. My wife is a woman from an ethnic minority, she likes videogames, and she's by and large happy. You know why she's mostly happy? Two reasons, me not fukking up too much, and far more importantly she doesn't make her life revolve around staring at her navel in a mirror lamenting pointless social emo crap about "why this" and "why that", like if she whinges loudly enough about why life isn't perfect she'll become the high priestess of the socially persecuted, I'm disadvantaged, look at me, think what I tell you to think fukking religion. She gets on with her life, puts up with me, does what needs to be done, counts her blessings ( not me ), and fukking lives her life by appreciating and enjoying the good things not making some mental orrey of fecal matter about how things are shit orbiting around even more shit and how it's everyone else's fault. This poisionous crap turns up in all walks of life where it's totally inappropriate - in the supermarket, "where's the lesbian, gay transgendfer, checkout please?", in the zoo "where's the lesbian, gay, transgender, animals enclosure please?" in the fukking children's playgroup " where's the transgender creche so my child doesn't grow up to be a mass murdering rapist ?" The only purpose this shit fills is to allow persecuted holier than thou saints tell the rest of us how wrong we are, and how ashamed of being normal people we should be, how we oppress others so harshly just through our very existence, how we are responsible for the woes of others, etc....... It's a fukking giant con job by low self esteem emo manipulators who need to be important evangelists at the top of the church of guilt who's only purpose is a giant con job on everyday folk to try and make them feel bad about themselves when they have done nothing wrong. I'm all for equal rights and respect for everyone, but this stirring up trouble just to be the one who fixes it is an emotionally manipulative con job where the means ( oppression and guilt ) is far more important than the end result - genuine equality. I also suspect that there's a fair few geeks who believe ( wrongly as you'll eventually find out sorry lads ) that they can get laid by a feminist just by joining in the "right on" chants.- to you poor suckers I wish you well and hope you find a normal woman in the end.I got trolled, rant over.
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I've seen longer walls of text with less substance, but please don't post these ridiculous rants.
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What's wrong with it please? It's certainly heartfelt, on topic, a bit of swearing - apologies for that but I feel the swearing helps convey the feeling. Looking for guidelines on why you feel it's not suitable please.
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I am female and do love this game, I've not been playing too long but am sticking with it, but I gotta say sometimes it is hard to be involved in conversation at times, it's hard to relate to certain things in public channels.. interesting article, didn't know there was so few of us..
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Sorry, but it doesn't work that way. Racism, sexism both imply an existing power structure, where the group with all the power dominates those without because of a single trait (skin color, sex). A group of people cannot be racist or sexist if they're the minority; if they're on the defense. Discrimination can also exist without racism or sexism. Refusing men into the group is discrimination, not sexism, because men are the majority "power holders" of EVE.
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"There is also dedicated channel for gay, lesbian, and bisexual players." - Where?
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There was an article like this on EN24. It got trolled hard. As for the "bubble wrapping" vs "rape cage" debate. Part of the reason the term rape cage sticks is because its not supposed to be a pleasant experience for the bubbled party. Quite the opposite. Bubble wrapping just sounds like a kinky activity i do instead of going to church on sunday morning. Speaking of which, they have a channel for women, and gays and all, lets get a bdsm channel plox. and a furry channel. yiff.
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Pretty sure I dont care about peoples feelings. Women are people right?
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There's already a GLBS channel in EVE, and has been for years. Not sure why it's a big deal if some people want to have a private conversation, and discriminate accordingly.
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What part of my comment said you or the author said that? what part of a comment adding to a discussion do you not understand?But "I entirely agree, and group who purposely excludes individuals because of who they are is bad!" sounds like you were saying that to me.
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EVE terms of service and EULA have rules or regs against this sort of thing ? Thats fine if they do, voice comes on Mumble, Teamspeak or Vent. My voice server my rules.
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This is the stupidest comment I've seen on this subject, When a white person gets gunned down in a neighborhood because he's white, that isn't racism?And actually, women are the "power holders" in the SIG mentioned in this article, so it's sexist even by your incredibly stupid definition.
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Um, yes? That's only Goonwaffe though, not all of Goonswarm.
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I'm sorry, I'm not going to change how I act in eve. I'm not going to tip-toe around because there might be females. I wouldn't do it in real life, and I wouldn't do in on the internet. I've dated female gamers, and the issue wasn't so much it being a "locker room" but getting a lot of disrespect if people found they were girls.Which is weird because if I find out someone is a girl gamer (and isn't the hurr hurr i'm a girl gamer stop hitting on me silly boys! kind) I just think it's pretty ace.I'm sure that the low number of girls in eve is not due to how people act. If there were more girls I'm sure it'd change. But really, it's just one of those areas quite a large amount of females aren't interested. When I was doing physics at uni, it was a dickfest. Do you think it was because in lectures everyone was like LOOK BOOBS?Really I think we need to learn to tolerate each other, and grow up and not be so sensitive. Oh, and one of those girl gamers I dated didn't find any mention of rape offensive. Rather, she found it quite hot.
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Wow you are an idiot who knows nothing. "Racism is usually defined as views, practices and actions reflecting the belief that humanity is divided into distinct biological groups called races and that members of a certain race share certain attributes which make that group as a whole less desirable, more desirable, inferior or superior."I've literally never seen such a stupid comment.
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1. No one is "hiding" in a SiG, as you can join as many as you want and they exist in parallel to your current Corp/Alliance/Coalition structure2. Congratulations on flying with 2 ladies- I'm not sure how you then turn around and believe that this means that female EVE pilots are not rare.
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:hurr: You hit jump instead of warp because YOU'RE A GIRL!!!~~ Yes, this has literally happened to me. Sucks if you're trying to FC something and little shits get their panties in a knot over welping.
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I knew it was bad. I didn't know it was that bad. :cripes:
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We are a rare breed indeed-Makes us better at Eve in fact! Our li'l knitting/sandwich recipie swapping channel includes Skymarshals/Diplomats/Fleet Commanders/Intelligence Operatives/CEO's....& other assorted talented people! Convenient for me I can tell you lol!
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A frozen popsicle in the ass causes a surprised face & gets the bugger's attention hun-every time! & you are no more a sexist discriminatory cow than I am! ;)
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It seems to me that the OP is just upset that there is a competing group to the WGoE chat channel. If you will notice in the article she argues that a women's group is necessary because all men are sexist pigs. The problem she seems to have is that the NPA SIG has a 'juvenile' name and competes with her preferred WGoE chat channel. Of course this isn't all the OP goes on about. Most of it seems like an aimless rant that charges off in all directions at once, yet doesn't really get anywhere.
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Thank you Ashrik-thank you! You expressed what I was too damn tired to type after bashing my head off the wall ;))
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You surmise correctly my friend :)
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I wrote in my blog a critique of this article (http://athenaolympia.blogspot.... but here is the TLDR:The author is a bitter attention seeking "woman" (or is that cow ? Cunt I think is better) who is jealous of other women in eve. Or it's dbrb in "disguise" - some may say that's the same thing. In either case, the article rambles in several directions and makes no point only to have the author contradict "her" self many times in it.
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Your "response" is a cringeworthy pile of garbage. Learn to write. And, "dumb cunt", really? You're not helping your credibility here.Since you're clearly incapable of the critical thought necessary to discern the point, let me do it for you. "A woman-only channel is exclusionary by nature, sexist by definition. Should it not be necessary? Sure, it should. Is it necessary in the real world? Yup, so I will continue to support such things."
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The irony is what makes it amazing. It sounds so fun and happy and carefree, then you realize it means that you'll get caught and killed.
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Do i like women? Yes. Do I wish more women played eve? Sure I do. I think it would be nice if we were able to have a more diverse group of individuals. I do however, find it discerning that we get warped up on such trivialities and porn, the names and phrases we give things, and "offensive" language we may use. In all seriousness, who gives a fuck, get over it. The best part of EVE is it's no rules attitude, say what you want, do what you want, be who you want. If your a offended by something I say, and you have the inclination to tell me, prepare to hear it again. The fact of the matter is, no one has the right to tell me, or anyone else what is proper or mature. There are plenty of tools available to block yourself off from me, or anyone else who does it, I should not be the one who has to give up my freedom for you. No one should give a shit if all the women band together and do whatever it is they do, get over it. The fact that anything is acceptable or at the very least tolerated is a shining example of how mature and progressive the EVE community is. Oh and by the way, RAPE CAGE, RAPE CAGE, RAPE CAGE.
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I personally adore the girls who fly in our fleets, mostly because when they FC you cant hear the MLP theme or monday night football in the background, cant hear fleet orders with that stuff.
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Never meant to imply that was what the author had to provide an explanation for. More for the "Groups based on gender or sexuality should be unnecessary in EVEspace. "
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Noooo... you won't get killed. You get popped!¨(Great initiative though, I hate the rapey language and casual racism that pervades the HBCFC comms)
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" no one has the right to tell me, or anyone else what is proper or mature. "You're free to say what you like and everyone else is free to call you an immature douche. That's how free speech works - it cuts both ways.
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Disregarding the expectations of women is something that I am proud of. Are we going to let eve become a victim of Misandry, like everything else in our society? Or we going to let this emasculated idiot, CEO Corelin, tell us what words are appropriate or not? Fuck this shit man.

Author's note: I have been participating in or creating online communities since 1982, including early online Internet Relay Chat-based game communities and later MMO game communities. Although I have operated in traditionally heavily male-dominated spaces throughout my life, I am not normally interested in gender issues. I am, however, interested in creating a better community experience for everyone and that is what this is all about. 

The Clusterfuck Coalition (CFC)'s Special Interest Groups (SIGs) are great places to find others who share some common ground with you and to have some fun. Want to grief newbies? There is a group for you. Want to pop into wormholes and gank the local inhabitants? We have a group for that. Your English isn’t great, so you want a Dutch roaming team? There will be a group for that too.

CFC members were recently invited to join a new SIG called “CFCNPA”. On the surface, its membership criterion is simple: no penises allowed (NPA). That was not a euphemism. The group’s goal is to “provide a safe place, a sounding board of sorts, for issues that women in the CFC have to deal with…” If that sounds familiar, it is because there have been similar efforts in the past, such as Sisters in Eve, an EVE University subgroup. The best known currently active group is Women Gamers of EVE (WGoE), an invitation-only, in-game chat channel for women started in 2003.

Some of the less enlightened CFC members questioned the point of the CFCNPA group. Is it discriminatory to have such a group? Yes. Is it sexist? Yes. Is it necessary? Judging from some of the invitational message’s comments, the answer is sadly yes.

The Great EVE Female Drought

[T]he average age is about 27 years old. 95% of the users are male and 5% women. Most of them have an education and some kind of a degree. Their average EVE playtime per week is 17 hours - Magnus Bergsson

The Entertainment Software Association now puts women at 47% of the general game-playing public. Those 47% are definitely not all playing EVE. Women are rare in EVE Online. How rare? Current authoritative statistics are not readily available. In a 2006 interview, CCP CMO Magnus Bergsson said 95% of the EVE Online player base was male. A 2012 EVE social capital study reported 96.1% males amongst the 541 players surveyed. The sample size is small, but it is suggestive that the gender ratio has not changed much since 2006. This contrasts sharply with World of Warcraft (WoW) where studies regularly report 20–30% female participation.

He Said, She Felt It Necessary

EVE’s heterosexual male dominance leads to an uncomfortable gaming environment not as obvious in games with a better gender balance. You might be thinking, “I don’t care what gender you are or what your sexuality is so long as you got my back.” That is probably true. How you feel about your co-pilots is not the main problem. Based on anecedotal reports, personal experience, and surveys like this one[2], women and other gender- or sex-based minorities can feel they are living in the boys’ locker room or in an American college frat-house living room.

Profanity, pornography, and sexual references permeate the text and voice comms. These could possibly be ignored or lessened by not clicking on links, using “no chatter” channels for fleet operations, and ignoring “Local”. It is much harder to ignore the unconscious denigration demonstrated through language usage: referring to women who have sex as whores or sluts; calling people cunts or bitches; or saying something is gay. It is not just women noticing these behaviours either. A corp CEO put his money where his mouth was, offering a PLEX via his blog to anyone creating a better term than “rape-cage” (referring to the practice of completely engulfing the area of a POS's force field, plus some space outside of it, in large mobile warp disruption bubbles) while also linking other language usage directly to low female participation.

Penises Are Allowed

It could be argued then that these female-only spaces fill a gap in the EVE ecosystem. Is the CFCNPA one necessary? On first glance, no. The most women simultaneously ever on the game-wide WGoE channel was 40. Many female CFC pilots are already WGoE members, so why not just encourage any others to also join, showing solidarity for a potentially larger group? Why start a dedicated new group? Why name it “No Penises Allowed”, which smacks of the juvenile behaviour the group is trying shelter from? An even better question is why name it thusly but then say it is open to transgender players who identify as female? You can have a penis and belong to this group.

My intention is not to disparage transgendered individuals. However, identifying as female is not the same thing as being cis-female: someone who was born female and who has lived as a woman within any socio-cultural context her entire life. Nevertheless, if women are rare in EVE Online, then the transgendered female has good reason to feel even more isolated and out of place than women. Recognizing a shared bond likely resulted in the CFCNPA’s membership criterion being commendably amended to be more inclusive.

Sexist, Discriminatory Cows

This summer, Xenuria started a thread proposing the creation of Trans Gamers of EVE (TGoE), a channel using the WGoE pattern[3]. There is also dedicated channel for gay, lesbian, and bisexual players. If such enclave channels exist and have gated membership based on gender or sexual orientation, then it is discrimination. In the case of female-only channels, it is also sexist. Women feel forced to be what they allegedly abhor. They become sexist cows, practicing reverse discrimination—through the creation of their own channels—on a population seemingly blissfully unaware an issue exists.

SIGs should be formed around game-based activities, shared interests, shared languages, or mutual enjoyment of each other’s company. Groups based on gender or sexuality should be unnecessary in EVE space. Reporting players for terms of service violations because of offensive or vulgar language should likewise be unwarranted. What will I be doing? I will continue to regularly join WGoE, lending the support of my presence to those more keenly aware of the issues.

TLDR? EVE Is Not a Locker Room

Wouldn’t it be nice if we could just be here for a good time and a laugh together? Wouldn’t it be even better if that were a laugh that does not distance or discomfit the co-pilots who have our backs, be they female, Catholic, short, Norwegian, gay, fat, white, Malaysian, lesbian, Bantu, canine, or male? Nobody is demanding a complete personality change. If you say you don’t care about someone’s gender or sexuality, then walk your talk. EVE Online is not a single-sex locker room or a Brighton sauna (NSFW). Just remember to behave and talk more often like you are in mixed company; in EVE, you probably are!

  1. This study is notable both for its posting location and its contents. While participation numbers are low and gamers who have experienced sexism were more likely to participate, the comments and the statistics add support to the contention that at least some areas of the gaming universe are definitely felt to be not only female unfriendly but have led to women outright quitting.  ↩
  2. We are going to ignore the oddity of the TGoE channel’s creation being proposed by someone who is not a member of the channel’s intended demographic audience.  ↩
I am a virtual worlds researcher focussing on adult learning and communities of practice within MMOGs. I examine EVE through multiple lenses: as a researcher, as a new EVE universe participant, and as an experienced gamer. I'm @Eingang on Twitter.