Market Management Beyond Hisec

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You didn't mention relisting by enemy market alts and things alliances do to combat it. Also goonmetrics ! And huge logistics efforts needed for redeployments. There is so much more to nullsec market shenanigans than just importation and sell orders with a markup.
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Re-listing for fun and profit!Protip- don't put a profit cap on your 0.0 market, n3mesis.
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He did, but that's why it's an overview, not an in-depth look.Plus he doesn't know about goonmetrics, he's not a goon. ;)
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sudopudge needs to DIAF
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If you live in 0.0 and play in 0.0, why not make isk in 0.0? And support your alliance at the same time? The market has numerous entry points for everyone from little dudes on up to alliance-wide operations to :getin:
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Once upon a time I seeded the market in the small-roam-formup system for a small alliance.I did this with less than 10b isk and a carrier + T2 haulers.I couldn't provide everything but I could cover most of the modules and some frig/cruisers that we commonly used in our roams. It worked pretty well and it was a lot of fun.
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To give you an idea of the profitability, through the CFC's wars in fountain, delve, branch, Tenal, and delve again, I worked as a contract supplier. I primarily provided prefit drakes, hurricanes and sabres, though I occasionally listed scimitars and hictors. Some items I moved via personal JF, some via coalition jump freighter services, and I listed at a margin between 15-25% over jita (depending on competition). After about 9 months of this, I was able to cash out and buy a Titan (pre-mineral spike, so about 70 bil including hull, fit, implants).Granted, not all traders benefit from having a DBRB willing to slam fleet after fleet into a dumpster, or such an extended period of heavy warfare, but if you do, it's a lot of isk in a relatively short, risk-free, period of time. I think my original seed into the contract business was about 3 billion. Three to seventy in 9 months ain't too shabby.
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Actually I do, I just figured you guys wouldn't want the link posted publicly
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Yup, it also means when I visit you guys leroy more ships into my fleets then you probably should :)
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The market velocity is really dependent on alliance size and activity. For example one market I supplied I sold 200 expanded cargohold II's a week at a 300% margin. Another market I haven't sold 200 in 3 months. So while the margin can be high, the velocity is a total crap shoot.
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There could be multipe Jita's in nullsec if traders would not be forced to join the null alliances in order to acces the null trade hubs, that's the major drawback and why nullsec trading is limited to only few individuals. Open up trade routes, give us the oportunity to enter your space as a trader and you will never have to make another trip to hi sec trade hubs..
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Just a Q.I. type note. I ran into Sudopudge in WoT once. Same name, same spelling. I dropped a few probing hints I knew who he was and the replies indicated it was the same individual or someone intimately familiar with his habits.
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Profit does have a theme song.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M...
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If only there were a legitimate way to differentiate between traders and PVPers trying to get easy kills :(
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The darkside of goonmetrics (in TEST space at least) was that it caused idiotic dogpiling of commonly used items that went above the 30% mark. Some importers would only watch the "above 30% Jita" page and import those items. Because they were all using the same page and the same JF services they would all hit the market at the same time. They're generally not interested in 0.01 isking so they race each other to the bottom and the price tanks, often to 70 or 80% of Jita. Regular importers stop importing; supplies get used up; the price spikes and the cycle continues.At one point in TEST's deployment system there was more CN Antimatter L on the market than in Jita and it was much cheaper.
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hate to burst the cfc bubble, but k6 and 6vdt are the two largest, v is 3rd.
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Are your citations in reverse?
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Beer Game!
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All i am saying why only do a 15% markup when you own the market. Even in JITA I expect a 15-100% makup otherwise you are waisting your time and yes I am talking of 20-50bil investment
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Then why am I on that red list? I'm a trader!
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They might be.... I'm kind of bad at citations...
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I keep my markup low because the primary goal is to supply my alliance. Even at 10-20% margins I make more then enough isk to keep it going and expand into new markets.
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But if something has such high volume (let's for the sake of argument, a thousand units a day) that even at 5% markup @ 100k ISK profit per unit you make twice as much actual ISK than one unit a day for 100% markup @ 50M ISK profit per unit.In terms of time spent getting that profit, you should be more concerned about how much actual ISK something is making that what % markup you can get.
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This is just not true.VFK:Items: 5,351 Isk: 783,706,452,8376VDTItems: 3,624 Isk: 371,528,860,299Source: http://eve-marketdata.com/stat...
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A trader is a free man by definition and don't like to be enforced by any corp, alliance rules. His only rule is: go where business is good even if that is the bottom of hell. I was not talking about me anyway as I'm making my wallet happy by smuggling stuff in and out from null npc space, but more likely about a version of Mos Eisley in EVE where not only or few individual can have access, but every professional trader, smuggler etc. A huge trade hub where none will ask you questions, no custom office, no taxes and where you may find everything you just can imagine.Sadly, this is not possible due to game mechanics and restrictions. No alliance will open the gates for trades risking that way a massive invasion nor a breach in their space security. But maybe a safe heaven ruled by neutral npc's could solve the problem. A spot in space where only JF's and indy ships can go in/out or something similar. And maybe a trader pass sold by the alliances, a pass you can get upon turning in your API and an anual fee.Point is that if the biggest alliances in EVE want this to happen, they could put some pressure on CCP to make it happen. But seems like is more convenient to cry about how hard is to run indy in null because the lack of raw materials so ccp should nerf hisec instead of working out an idea that could boom the trading in null and make it a pulsing with life, not only gun smoke and boredom..

This article is not about playing the .01 isk game in Jita. It isn't about trading diamond tags at stupid prices in mission hubs, nor is it about freighter trading between Jita and Amarr. It's also not for everyone, as its very nature makes it inaccessible to most. This article is about an often unexplored avenue of trading; Market Trading in deep Low or Nullsec.

Background

A little under a year ago my corporation (FELON) joined a renter alliance out in Tribute called The Methodical Alliance. A station was quickly scrounged together (XD-T0V) and things were great for a few days. Then the 'industrial' players who were to be counted upon to seed the market for us, failed to do so. I discovered this when forming a fleet and trying to get logistics pilots. There were no Basilisks on market prompting the argument “I don't have one and can't get one.”.

Instead of yelling at the industrial guys to do better, I took my JF to Jita, loaded up some basic combat supplies and shipped them out. FELON had a 15% return on investment from that first load, netting about 150m profit. By doing this I was able to provide ships and mods for my fleets, combat price gouging and make some money; I was hooked. By the time FELON had left TMA, the corp had invested about six billion into the market. Not a single dime has entered the market program since then, FELON's market is now worth just shy of forty five billion isk, despite ten billion pulled out of it over the year.

 

Market Seeding

Market seeding is the act of bringing in large quantities of supplies to a station (and often region/constellation) where those supplies were not available before. Market seeding is commonly done in nullsec, and comes in two forms - contract seeding and market seeding. Market seeding has two sub-types, which I refer to as individual and multi-party seeding. The former is necessarily a predecessor to the latter; I'll explain.

Individual market seeding is a market with one dominant supplier. This supplier has to supply almost everything the residents of the area must use, because he is in competition with empire hubs. For convenience reasons, pilots travel to stations where they can get everything they need to fit a ship, which often means a trip to Jita (or the nearest major hub). Even pilots who do not have the logistical means to resupply themselves employ those who do as 'personal shoppers' for a fee. So, in order for a local market to be useful, it must provide every nut and bolt. This typically requires an amount of capital many consider 'astronomical'.

To give an example, before Fozzie made our game better by fixing all the cruisers, a fully seeded market was about 38 billion isk. Now a fully seeded market is about 55 billion isk. This market does not include Heavy Interdictors (~1.5b extra), or capitals (~35b extra). This statistic is not a measure of how much volume (in isk) the market moves (market velocity). It is a measure of the base cost of supplying 2 to 5 hulls of each ship and 2 to 5 sets of gear for each ship. To get an example of market velocity, the LAWN market out in Branch is a Conglomerate Market that moves 300 billion isk a month(3).

In addition to the capital requirements, an individual seeder often needs his own logistics as well - an empire freighter for bulk movement in secure space, and a jump freighter and accompanying cyno alt(s) for the final leg. The personal benefits are substantial, however. A truism of Eve is that most pilots are lazy, so the seeder can charge a substantial markup, all while providing a valuable service to his host alliance in the form of local supplies.

 

An individually seeded market can give way to a multi-party seeded market. Once the individual seeder has established the market and given pilots reason to buy there, they have lowered the barrier to entry. Smaller traders can compete with him in a smaller section of the market.

VFK is an excellent example of Conglomerate Market Seeding. In addition to being the capital of Goonswarm and the CFC, it is also one of the most docked in stations in nullsec and home to one of (if not the) largest market hub outside empire. A jump freighter service run by a member corp means that anyone can move freight at a ridiculously cheap rate, making it that much easier for the smaller traders to compete on the market. But there are many large fish as well, individuals such as Kintail who build or buy in the Jita area, then jump their own items out by the hundreds or thousands(2). This group of individuals is different from the first in that bulk import/export is their chosen profession in EVE and they have developed the tools and expertise to do it on a mind boggling scale.

A third factor are local builders, but they are a decidedly small contribution. Some of our other writers have penned lengthy articles dedicated to just how bad building in nullsec is, and it's all true. This group provides very little to the market, but what they do provide often tends to be at Jita prices or better.

All three types of traders contribute to keeping the market vibrant. Between cheap and fast freight services, it's highly resistant to market gouging, while the competition keeps the prices low for buyers. The larger number of involved players also means a greater breadth of fittings; something too small to be worth dealing with for a larger seeder is perfect for a newer player to get in and make some money on.

Contract Markets

As the name would imply, a contract market is a market derived entirely of contracts. It consists of pre-fitted ships, usually to meet alliance doctrines, but occasionally popular ratting fits are offered as well. They often coexist with the normal market as they provide a different service.

The nature of the contract system poses additional barriers to entry compared to normal market seeding. Shipping services are cheap enough to move modules, but the fees add up when it comes to moving hulls (at 200 isk/m3, a battleship costs 10m isk to move), making a personal jump freighter nearly mandatory. The time investment is higher, as fitting the ships and setting up contracts is much more involved than simply listing a market order. And, there's a literal skillpoints barrier as well. Pre-fitting ships requires a character with a broad skillset, and the nature of the contract system means any serious contractor needs several alts with maxed contract skills to have enough slots.

For all those reasons, the contract markets tend to be less competitive (and consequently more profitable) to get involved in. Yet, their existence is invaluable to the host alliance. A deep supply of pre-fit ships guarantees downed pilots can be back in the fight quickly, and that their ships will always be properly fit for the doctrine. This advantage is actually so important that the Goonswarm alliance finance team maintains an in-theater reserve to "backstop" contracts with(1), both to guarantee supply in the event of a bad welp and to mitigate potential price gouging.

 

Hopefully, I've given you, the reader, an interesting look into how (and why) lowsec and nullsec markets develop and function!

Sources

1 - Mynnna (Goonswarm Finance) – Full Interview Text

2 - Kintail (Bulk Importer of VFK)– Full Interview Text

3 - Basil Vulpine (LAWN Director of Industry and Logistics) – Full Interview Text

4 - Reginald Zebranky (Main CFC Contract Trader) - Full Interview Text

[name_1]
I'm an accomplished FC and have been playing for six years, I run FELON, the founding corp of Sadistica Alliance, and head the alliance. I also manage a ~50b isk market to support the alliance and am currently working as a technical writing intern.