How Zerging Is Ruining Planetside 2

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this gud rant
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Sounds remarkably similar to something that happened to another game we all know
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Oh, we've heard this complaint in Eve so many times.It's a large-scale war game, bringing more dudes is how you win a war.It's quite ironic to see an article admonishing people to use 'skill' instead of 'zerging' or 'blobbing' or whatever the trendy term is, on themittani.com, the site of a person who has spent nearly a decade ridiculing people who say just that. :pThis game isn't designed for a 'well-fought campaign', as you said. Or, at least, if it is indeed designed for that, then the entire design is a gigantic mistake. 90% of players are random people that hop into the game and just want to shoot people in the face. They made the game free to play, they have to account for most people doing just that.What the game really needs are a few continents where territory can be conquered by player outfits, and where they can build and develop stuff, and maybe have an economy of some sort.. Then perhaps the illusive goodfights can come from fights that matter instead of this NPC faction nonsense where no one really cares who wins or what happens.Of course, the ~elite~ outfits will still complain about the ~blobbers~, but at least then we can laugh at their face instead of seeing it as an actual concern.
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this whole post is a long form of the same shit losers in eve have been spouting from the start - that by stomping idiots you drive the idiots from the game in a fit of despondency and that its a bad thing. the answer is that there will always be stompers and stompees so give up complaining about it, and that we're all best off with them leaving if they can't take the heat anyway. the game lends itself to this zerging so people zerg. go off and join your own zerg elsewhere. server pops are not your fault, if anything they're the devs. you cant shame players into not doing what works or the game into not having imbalanced server numbers. only the devs can fix it.
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player owned areas will get steam rolled by bunches of pubbies and they will come wave after wave just because they can.Untill such time as the player corps/faction outnumber the pub's and then its all coming from the other foot.
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Learn to play the meta game. build up your own blob or zerg or whatever you call it and kill the pubs. if a well skilled team of 48 players lose against 96 unskilled pubs, well then 96 well skilled players will win against those 96 unskilled.
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i was thinking the exact same thing :)How can the goons really write this when they are clearly the king's of zerging?lol its gf's in eve and ruining the game in ps2?
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Zerging owns
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You're asuming every writer on this page is a goon.
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the zerg is bad, but it can easily be avoided, and you can find good fights with ease, just jump in a gal and avoid the zerg. the biggest weakness the zerg has, is its own nature, they are focused in one big group moving from base to base with no direction. any good Outfit that can run 2 platoons can counter a zerg and toy around with it... just cut off their advance from behind their lines. as soon as you take adjacency away from them, the zerg comes to a full stop. 30% of them will turn around and try to recap, 30% will wander around aimlessly, and the rest will redeploy to a random hotspot. the only outfits that CAN'T do this are bad outfits, or specialized outfits with less than 50 ppl online at all times. is your outfit this small?, then why are you complaining? large scale warfare is not your thing, go do small drops and let the big boys have their game.The zerg is not a problem in PS2, its a feature that allows noobs and randoms to group up and run around like an angry mob AND it allows big outfits to have ALWAYS something to fight. reminds me of the train in ROTMG. asking for the zerg to go away is like people in eve wanting to change the game so a group of 50 people can stand up to a group of 500. no, you cant. you never will. either join them, or retreat and grow in numbers.im from waterson NC, DVS outfit. and yeah, we can stop the zerg. takes a lot of work and sometimes we have to call in other big outfits to help, but it can be done, even on weekends. and trust me, in our server totalbiscuit and angryjoe have their outfits on the TR side, that means its FULL of nerds and fanboys... this translates on a TR zerg thats a monster, usually of around 200ppl+, with back up from entire platoons of coordinated air units. BRIT runs those and they are annoying as fk.you do not want to meet the waterson zerg.
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Zerging is OK. Learn to play.
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Sounds a bit epic though. Not even the Crown can attract numbers like that on my server.
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Hey, TEST are da blob as well.And aren't PL the true kings of blobbing, considering the size of their super fleet?
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You touch upon the issues here... but you end up going on a rant rather than making a point.The problem is not the "zerg" in Planetside 2. What you call a "zerg" others would call "organized outfits." It's not a matter of one large group ruins the game for everyone, it's the fact that no other large group wants to fight. Large platoons and groups of platoons are what make PS2 exciting, and saying that they are what will kill it is... well, just wrong. Why do people runaway to another continent when a zerg comes along? Because it's easier to get certs when you're not in a stalemate (unless it's a biolab, of course).You enter Planetside 2 knowing there will be "combat on a massive scale." The problem isn't really the abundance of overwhelming zergs, it's the lack of opposing zergs. Whenever GOON fights TE (albeit rarely, but it happens) the fights are great.So, in short, we need more counter-zerging from the sides that are getting hit. "Zerging" is what will make PS2 thrive.
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The thing that tends to happen in any game with huge numbers is that people will flock over to the winning side.I know it's easy to say that the other side should build up huge numbers, but the reality is a lot different from how things 'should' be. Why should they build the massive numbers if they're already having fun doing smaller stuff? Why shouldn't they farm certs on less populated continents when the others are un-winnable? I know I enjoy PS2 when it's a bit of a smaller scale than several platoon pushes, if only because I feel like I can actually do objectives, have a tiny bit of influence on the map, and get to know people on mumble/ts3/whatever. For me there's a certain point where extra numbers, especially in a steamrolling situation, actually detract from the experience. I'd imagine a huge number of people feel the same. Trying to organise a rival zerg also sounds too much like work, especially when I already have an actual job.The same issue happens in Eve - people will say that someone should make up an opposing coalition with huge numbers to provide entertainment for them, without ever thinking about how realistic or appealing that idea actually is.
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I see, and actually empathize, with your point. However, organized outfits won't stop what seems like zerging. They have the numbers, the organization, and you can bet that they'll use that to their advantage. Yes, it's a fair amount of work and yes, it's easier said than done, but the rewards for countering a zerg with another is the long-awaited "good fight."I agree, small-scale operations in PS2 can be fun, but it's not really what I (or many other people) signed up for. I'm not a part of a large outfit but I do try to get people into squads/a platoon to help counter whatever may be going on.To your point about why you shouldn't move to another continent. The fact is, one person transitioning over because they want certs isn't detrimental to the faction as a whole. The problem isn't individuals switching over. The problem is the big outfits, the very ones who can easily form a counter-zerg, do the same. I am not trying to say that every lone wolf should be able to form a counter-zerg, but rather that zergs make for great battles when they meet and that they should do so more often.I know the difficulty of getting a large number of people together in PS2 as well as in EVE. We already have zergs established in PS2, we just need them to lead the charge and the lone wolves will follow to the "awesome big fight" that's bound to happen.
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The biggest difference is that in Eve, if the blob goes on unopposed long enough, drama will break out and it'll eat itself from the inside out; e.g. BoB, goons on more than one occasion, and what looks like the HBC at the moment. In PS2 however, you're stuck with a faction. No in-fighting occurs and if you want to change sides you have to throw away your entire character and (currently) inventory. The blob will never collapse in on itself until there stops being people to shoot.
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I'm not a goon.
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I agree. Something that's been in the game since PS1 is ruining the game and not SOE's absolutely craptastic game design.
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As mentioned in the article, blobbing in EVE is a fundamentally different beast from zerging in PS2. Fighting the blob in EVE is entirely optional, as there are many other activities that are essential to a war effort. The logistics of supporting a war effort is a vast undertaking that allows for people of every stripe to participate without actively fighting. PS2 doesn't allow you to do that except on an extremely shallow level (piloting a Sunderer or Galaxy loaded with dudes).I think you're right in the notion that zerging would be alleviated by having player-run continents and such, but that wasn't really the scope of the article. Maybe in a future one...
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Noob here who quit the game and uninstalled. Not because of zerging, but because PS2 is shit. Also, the irony of this article being on this particular site is quite funny.
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thats interestingcould you loose more words about it? i am not well into PS2. just played it a few times.What I want to ask is, what is unbalanced in PS2 when you can choose between "skill" or "masses" to achieve your goals? it is actually some kind of work to gather enough unskilled players and concentrate them towards certain goals. It is just another form of investment. Or is it actually easy for one of the fractions to build up a zerg without much communication?
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Wow, what drugs are you on? The NC pushed (defended) TR out of their biolabds 5 different times in a row a few days ago. They also steamrolled you guys out of a biolab, Alloys, and The Crown earlier today as well (on matterson). Im not saying the NC is a great and powerful army, but your description of events is just silly.Irony of this story, when you TR guys have to exit yoru tanks and mosquitos, you guys suck. Biolabs are a great example: once you cant rely on a sheer blob of explosions going on, your ability to assault anything is horrible.It allc omes down to the strengths of each faction. On Matterson, the TR players seem to only spend certs on weapons that can kill multiple enemies at once (rocket pods on mosquitos, HE turrets on tanks). The NC players seem to spend their certs on the hand-held weapons. This is mostly because we cant hit a damn thing othereise -- our guns just have too much kick standard issue. The Vanu like to get close. Seeing as their infantry wepoans do the more damage the closer they are, I see players from that faction sneak up on people more than any other.All this being said, I feel the playing field will be balanced out some once the new patch ever goes through (if it ever does). Limiting the explosion radius of all weapons plus the twitching the NC has ot deal with while being hit will go a long way in helping fix some glaring issues with defence and overall gameplay.Now if they can only fix the zerg.....
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My primary is NC, not TR. They just both happen to be on the same server thanks to the server merge.
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I have been reading and following themittani.com for several months now. I don't play EVE at all but I find the stories fascinating to read and hope to trial the game some day in the near future, meanwhile I'm happy with reading what is posted.So in other words this is my first post:I'm a full time planetside 2 player, and to be more exact a platoon leader and admin in the Miller outfit Freelancers Union (FU). And I must say many of you EVE players don't understand much about planetside 2, or simply appear to be "elitist" thinking that EVE is the master game.Florian No it is not hard at all to start a zerg unlike what has been said above. You want to know how to start one? Have 2 squads (sometimes works with 1) get prowlers at the warpgate and then the randoms will follow suit and get tanks as well. Before you know you have a zerg. That is all the trouble it is. There is no big secret or work behind it.Now, that is the hard way to beat another zerg, it's far easier to get your 2 squads to just switch to lock on rockets and start spamming on the enemy armor from an elevated position. 48 skilled/organized players can and will easily defeat 96 zerglings. What he said is simply wrong. Hell I've defeated 96 zerglings with just 12 people before! (Quartz Ridge defending against an NC attack). You just have to be smart on how you do it. Destroy sundies, then lightnings and then MBTs. Then laugh as the enemy zerg disappears. If you aren't good enough to do that then just backcap the zerg as someone else said above.Again, it isn't at all difficult to defeat an enemy zerg, problem is when it's an organized outfit zerg. (here on Miller it's WASP and DIG).
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One of these days people are going to realise that this isn't just Mittens in a dark room with a keyboard and a conveyor belt of cocaine. TheMittani.com is an independent news source that garners writers from all over New Eden, not to mention people who have never played EvE in their life to cover all our avenues of gaming interest. Please do our writers the courtesy of treating them as writers, they work hard and they certainly have my respect.
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You forgot to mention on mattherson that we goons sometimes work against our own faction. Giving incentive for the pubbies to switch sides.
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This is pretty much why I quit PS2: every hour outside of absolute primetime in my server (Waterson), each faction was zerging one of the three continents. You literally could not get a good fight if you wanted to. Was a waste of my time, so I left.Everyone saying "l2p" or some variation: you're missing the point and your EVE analogies are missing the mark even more. An FPS based solely on the idea of an ultimate quagmire forever war needs balanced, continuous fights to be fun. There's just no way around it.
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wasnt there a story not long ago about a small group of people completely decimating a zerg rush in a pass?
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The point doesn't stand you idiot. If he's not a goon, then your point is completely invalidated.
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Because, apparently, the only writers in this site must be from a Nullsec alliance. Some leap of logic there.
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Amateurs discuss tactics. Professionals discuss logistics.
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There was. However, writers here are all independent and do not necessarily consult one another. And how many passes are there in PS2?
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Eh... That's the thing. The problem with the zerg issue is that they just move to another area and leave. The fact is, there is nothing detrimental all that much about losing territory. It just affects your discounts, your cert gains, etc. And if the gains aren't good there, you just jump to another continent.In EVE, in Nullsec, if someone is taking your territory, you sound the :frogsiren:s and you get people out there and prevent it from happening, because moving elsewhere isn't so easy, you'll lose everything you worked for, etc.I'm not saying that it should be like that in PS2... Penalties aren't the solution in this case. Bonuses are.Let's say the Sony folk go ahead, study the population levels to see how turnouts are at certain times, and then just appoint a few territories that will give -extravagant- bonuses, for only 3-4 hours, once per week. Big Event. Everyone shows up. Everyone organizes. GIANT BRAWL. Because everyone wants that cake.There's no real incentive for organized outfits to fight over the same area at the same time currently... Simply because there's no real reward to. If one opposing outfit zergs now, might as well wait for them to get bored and just zerg back. But if there's a bonus available only at a certain time, maybe once a week, that's substantial... Then people will organize for it.If TR still just bulldozes everyone, then either they deserve it by being more organized and wanting the coveted prize more, or Sony needs to take matters into their own hands, because the server populations may be too imbalanced, or their weapons/etc. are imbalanced.Not a perfect solution, but it's something, and will generate a lot of data for Sony to work with for creating future solutions.
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I like this article, except for the part where you dictate to me what fun is. Fun does not require challenge. Driving dangerously fast on the highway is fun, and it's not challenging.Also, this site is named after one of the biggest internet trolls I've heard about - https://www.youtube.com/watch?... was that challenging for him? I guarantee you that he enjoyed it.Don't tell me what fun is.There wouldn't be a zerg at all unless a few people enjoyed it.Personally, I find sitting around in the zerg waiting for a point to be capped boring, and moving to a new location to sit around boring, but when you first arrive at a base there is a firefight, and that's the part I like.
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Well apparently, I'm retarded as well - here's the link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?...
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You just explained why I love Eve. It's always in flux! Today, one side is dominating, tomorrow it's receding. Today Tritanium prices is soaring, tomorrow it hits rock bottom. Today everybody flies brawler frigates. Tomorrow? AHACs!
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This is seen in, what? Every MMO with a faction system ever? Dark Ages of Camelot, WoW, Warhammer Online (Lord bless its soul and put it out of its misery), etc etc etc!
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If the point was that you're retarded, then yes, it does still stand, I guess.
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I don't know if zerging will make PS2 thrive. It is easier to zerg on another continent, or two zerg in the opposite direction. In fact, the several times I've joined a zerg, there was an enemy zerg doing the same thing, on the other side of the map. You accumulate more certs just grinding structures faster instead of killing the enemy.And all the zergs I've been in have been led by no one, as far as I could tell. An organized outfit doesn't zerg. Maybe they will, if that's all the action they can get. I've been in organized outfits that took the whole map (on continents 2 and 3, Indar no one has taken :because of Citadel: ), and they didn't do it by zerging, but by strategy.
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read Par 4 he compares eve to PS2.
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lol then i'm sorry i took from some1 else's comment that you were a nullsec noob, again assumption gets me in trouble
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hmmmm conveyor belt of cocaine............but your right i assumed and was wrong my bad
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TR? VS? NC? the first time you mention a term that isn't universally understood, you should define it for those of us who have no idea what you're talking about.
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This post is a bit simplistic. Five heavy assaults fitted with crows can pop a heavy tank in one round of fire if you choose your targets. On Indar you can find point where the tanks cannot even shoot you as you pop them. It is about being very fast to those points and bringing along enough Medics and Engineers. The whole point is the NC tend to run around like headless chickens. The problem is not the zerg its the pretty poor tactics often adopted my some outfits.Sure numbers are important but they aren't everything.
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Why are you reading this article if you don't know what the faction abbreviations are?
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TR = Terran Republic = Facist StormtroopersVS = Vanu Sovereignty = Disco Techno-fetishistsNC = New Coalition = RON PAUL 2016
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Sony needs to take a leaf from Arenanet's book and make PS2 factions shuffle around like WvW does in GW2
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I think you're missing the point. 48 skilled players CAN beat 96 unskilled players.Its just they all respawn. and 96 get more respawns. So really its like 500 vs 2000 by the end of the fight.Also the attacker almost always has an edge over the defender. Short of a well planned trap this is a fact of fighting.
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Goon site complaining about blobs. I love it.
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I just re-installed this game. Did they implement continent population imbalance xp bonuses yet? That's one of the few ways I can think of to stop a zerg.
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And this is why planetside 2 can suck my cock. SOE won't get a penny out of me. Hope that game dies in a fire.
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What meta game?
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Is this game even still alive lol I stopped playing a LOOOOOOONG time ago because of zergs, glitches and other problems. Is it worth logging in again?

If you ask any Planetside 2 player what their biggest problem is with the game, chances are you'll get a good variety of answers. Defense being untenable except on a few (notably biolab) hexes, gun balance favoring the TR, and even accusations of pay-to-win are complaints likely to scoot across your window in large, angry letters. While these are all valid issues, they aren't the biggest problem. The cancer eating Planetside 2 from the inside out is a matter of attitude.

Zerging will be the death of Planetside 2.

I'm sure everyone is familiar with zerging, but in case you aren't, here's a quick explanation: zerging is the act of grouping up in a massive, unblockable push of men and smashing all opposition apart by sheer force of numbers. It's the idea that even an excellent team of 48 players can't beat an awful team of 96 players. They just don't have the manpower.

Mattherson's Woes

My home server of Mattherson is a good case study on how this attitude of "zerg for victory" damages Planetside 2. The TR has an overwhelming presence on most continents throughout the day, and the VS and NC are mostly relegated to cannon fodder. If you try to defend a point, you get smashed apart by a tank-and-ESF push so massive that the game doesn't render troops past 50 feet. I've been on both sides of this equation - my TR and NC characters are both on Mattherson - and it's rarely any fun.

The real issue with zerging is that it completely demoralizes the other team. While blows to morale are great in slow-burn games like EVE Online where you can stop fighting and go do something else, they have the potential to bring a game like Planetside 2 to its knees. Players on the NC side on Mattherson are notorious for leaving a continent they are losing. It's not uncommon to see an 80 percent NC population on Amerish as the TR push the NC all the way back to their gate on Indar. Neither of these situations results in the ever-elusive "good fight" players search for.

Why Good Fights Matter

The entire economy and purpose of Planetside 2 is based around the concept of a well-fought campaign, and zerging defeats that purpose. When you play for an hour, losing point after point to enemy forces so massive you can do nothing to stop them—only slow them down or deflect them—it's understandable if you simply stop and go play something else. For example, fighting as an NC or VS on Mattherson is almost criminally tedious. You can't expect people to continue playing when they die so often that they might as well not even have started playing.

And we're seeing that. The NC on Mattherson give up incredibly easy, often leaving for another continent or just leaving the game. They are the saddest sacks of shit on the server, and the laughingstock of the other two armies. While this is certainly a problem with the mentality of NC players, it's also a problem with the attitude of the other factions.

Having a four-platoon armor push is not a good fight, and it never will be. It's a game of attrition. Can the other side take out all those tanks before you make it to their warp gate? Short answer, no. Long answer, hell no. You'll steamroll over all opposition in your path, and while it makes for easy cert farming and makes you feel powerful, it's not actually fun.

Fun is being challenged. Fun is spending days attempting to defend or retake an isolated biolab. Fun is a constant back-and-forth struggle between sides as they strive for dominance. It's not getting annihilated by or effortlessly destroying enemy teams. There's no challenge there, just grinding for certs.

You've also got to consider the viewpoint of the new player. While veterans will obviously be annoyed by getting steamrolled by a numerically-superior force, they are more likely to just hop onto another continent, character, or server. After all, they really love Planetside 2. But getting steamrolled is a fundamentally different experience for a new player. It teaches them that nothing they do matters as long as the enemy has larger numbers. Defense is useless because you'll just get spawncamped by 20 tanks all blasting at your spawn shields, and attacking is almost useless because you'll be unable to reach any points worth taking. With no options available to them, it's entirely likely that the newbie quits the game and uninstalls. You see it all the time in games like League of Legends.

Conclusion

Next time you log-in to Planetside 2, ready to shoot tanks with rockets or rain Zephyr fire from your Liberator, consider playing on a less-populated continent. Encourage people to balance populations. Make an effort to avoid just mindlessly taking every point on a continent with a force so large it barely notices the enemies it rolls over.

Don't zerg. It's not skillful, it's not fun for anyone, and it's killing Planetside 2.

[name_1]
Prolific game journalist and big gay robot. Editor-in-chief and general curmudgeon. Fight me.