Highsec Rising: The Danger of a Safe Zone in EVE

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Do you have a couple minutes to talk about our Savior and Lord James_315 ?He'll forgive you for all your sins in a single volley, I'm not even kidding.About the article, I think it's a very good article. A truckload of truth.
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What a nice opinion/propaganda piece, if I remembered correctly the war dec removal was about the unbalanced fact that it is easy to gank new players, while it is almost impossible to kill someone who is old in a JF the risk/reward isn't right.Also CCP has no influence about 0.0. Sure they could change a lot but the real reason about the big blue donut is that you can make way more money if you don't have to fight a big war.
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I have never replied to a message here. I usually just read and move on. I can honestly say that if WarDecs go away, or if highsec becomes "safer" or theme park, I will jump ship to another game (Star Citizen anyone?) very quickly. There are better Theme Park games than Eve. We play Eve for the unpredictable and dangerous SANDBOX. Good Lord I hope CCP reads this and the responses!!!
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That is a cop out. When in a small corp or a new player, the player has to play smart and safe. And 0.0 is becoming the Blue Doughnut because it is EMPTY. No reason to be there if you can shoot rocks in Hi-Sec. This isnt a game of equals. Older players will always be better trained than a new one. New Players do need to specialize. If you want safety and are afraid of getting your FAKE INTERNET SHIP blown up, PLEASE QUIT EVE!
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Nailed it. A combination of nerfing high sec and buffing the value of individual null systems is needed.
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The article writer need to familiar himself with words such as fanaticism and zealotry.It’s obvious that this person is so absorbed in his own narrow view of the world (EVE) thathe’s now unable to see the bigger picture.It’s healthy to ask yourself from time to time “what if I’m wrong?” and try other perspectives.
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What this guy said.As far as I'm concerned, removed high-sec, remove concord. Weave it in as 'null-sec' empire invade high sec and remove the current rule of law....Highsec must burn...
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this is a tricky one, i hate wardecs because they just make the game unbarable to play when your stuck up in a station with half your ships blown up and no isk income to replenish them, but taking the risk away alt ogether makes thr game too safe. i like to venture into low and null sec and im not very good and always loose ships, so i need high sec to replenish my iskies. when i was wardecced i was low on isk to start with and then every ship i was launching was being destroyed, i couldnt mine or mission and the game became a nightmare. i was forced to dispand my corp and start a new one. loosing most of my members in doing so. it was pointless and very frustrating... and there was nothing i could do about it.
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James_315 for CSM!
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Well James, you've got my vote for CSM this year.
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Sounds like someone just wants to keep having the means to cause grief. If CCP has infact figured out they lose money to wardecs and suicide ganks and other forms of griefing I'm not surprised they'd be moving to get rid of it. You are costing them more money than you are worth.
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He doesn't really understand Malcanis' Law at all and failed to read further down the article he linked. The OP ideas are meant to privilege his play style alone."Any change that is made to privilege a specific group in an open, classless game will invariably be to the greater benefit of older, richer, more experienced players"
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I'm not a fan of your's James 315, but you hit the nail on the head with this article. Well written and it's very hard to argue with the points you've made.....Well done Sir.
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And this is why the arguments for a riskier game always fall on deaf ears at CCP/CMS.. it always devolves into a load of people threatening to quit and someone telling everyone who disagrees with them to quit... If you want to make a case then make it compelling and make it count for a seriously broad base of players. Telling people that they can't play if they don't want to play the way you do doesn't help your case.I personally think that CCP have a hard time pleasing the majority and the tightrope they walk between making a game appealing to start playing and appealing to veteran players is one that they walk very well on the whole.High-sec forms a critical role as a place for new players to learn the game and for older players to take a bit of a break after a frenetic time in-game or IRL. It's a place you can retreat after having given your all to a null-sec war and it's a place you can relatively reliably find a market for things that never appear in the null-sec market spaces.Null-sec is where it's at for a lot of folks and it always will be - it may not be a win-all profit generator but its a place you can go to explore eve in all its sandbox glory and to make a serious play for an empire of your own.Low-sec is the most in need of revamp IMHO. It falls between the two stools of high and null and, with recent changes, really needs some fundamental work to figure out what its intended role in the context of the game is.Please don't quit eve, please don't encourage other people to. Just play the game the way you want to, let other folks do likewise and try and help CCP and the CSM take things forward in a constructive way.
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Here's a couple additional points:- If there were more targets/action in null sec, there would be less suicide ganking. I'm sure that a lot of suicide gankers come from null sec when they have nothing more interesting to do.- The Eve economy is driving primarily by the need to replace ships that are destroyed. So encouraging activity in Null Sec for those who are interested makes high-sec activities more lucrative.
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This was very good response. High-Sec is not Null. It should be safer to live there, but it should not be Elysium. The game is a Sandbox. I also agree that CCP cannot cater to every player. In fact, they should not cater to anyone. They should make and evolve their game as THEY see fit. Perhaps CCP should change the message of advertisement away from Sandbox and call it..... "Sand-Theme Park World". I am not sure, just brainstorming. Either way. What is Eve, what are they trying to make? Is it a dangerous place where anyone can carve an Empire, or is it shooting rocks and bragging about how much ISK you have?
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While reading the first half, I was going to write "I'm with nerfing the risks in high-sec, except for the war decs". But then I read on to the part about how players hear about the game when "emergent gameplay" and its events occur, and I thought: "Me and my friends first joined EVE in Feb 2009 after reading about BoB CEO disbanding the alliance and joining GOONS. Not only that, I stopped played for around a couple of years, and only came back few weeks ago after someone bumped up the EVE topic in Paradox Interactive forums and told us about the battle Asakai. This made me renew my subscribtion to EVE with my main and alt".Even though I'm currently a carebear (trying to save few billions to leave an alt for trading while I go and join a pvp alliance), I think I agree with what this article is trying to say.Edit: Who should I vote to oppose the theme changes? I never voted before in EVE. Thanks!
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I guess you missed the part where he explains that what makes eve money and gathers subscriptions is in fact the emergent aspects of player interaction? Your idea of eve is to play a bad game safely all on your own. You don't have to be very intelligent to see that as a game model that shit just won't last.
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"The risk/reward imbalance in highsec has gotten completely out of control."So, what is in control? What exactly do you feel is the right amount of hig sec ISK per tick James? 50 million? 20? 5? Nothing?
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I think you could benefit from familiarizing yourself with the term "ad hominem fallacy."
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The man that wrote the article!
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Chess where taking the Queen via zugzwang is made illegal is no-longer Chess.EVE where there's a place where you can be guaranteed complete safety isn't EVE.You're playing EVE for reasons that are both apparent and unapparent to yourself. Get used to it, and get to know them. You are not a spectator.
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No, I think his citing of Malcanis' Law is spot-on. Making hisec safer and more rewarding with the goal in mind being to benefit new players has only been more rewarding to richer and more experienced players. A glaring example of this is Incursions, which are being farmed by high-SP veterans (or their alts) in faction-fit pirate battleships, to the point where newer players are essentially unable to run them because they have no chance of completing a contested site or even finding a fleet.
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Does it seem to be "working fine" in your view when you have personally admitted to be funding your PvP with activity in hisec, on alts, despite the fact that you are in a spaceholding alliance?
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This is a very controversial issue. CCP is a business, never forget that!500.000 subscriptions milestone just prove you wrong and prove that all that CCP did in high sec was good, subscription numbers prove it. You don't like it, is your position. 500k milestone say otherwise.Other people have other wishes and views different than you, you have to learn to respect them all and compromise, EVE is a fine balance between 2 worlds, the one you defend and the one carebears want to play in.You say "high sec got to much buffs lets nerf it to the ground", I say "what about buff 0.0 to make high sec look and Be a bad place to live instead of nerfing it to the ground and leave null as it is?"
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+1 for this! Great Article
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Tell Freight Club it's impossible to kill JFs at war.Also, removing wardecs "because they hurt newbies" is the dumbest idea ever. Who benefits more from their removal, newbies with little at stake or veterans who have their multibillion ISK faction ships on the line?
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James 315.
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This is a real concern, though I feel giving the nullsec side some love is at least as important. I remember seeing a forum post advertising for a max-bonused mining fleet, promising 30m ISK/hr. That's 1/3 what you can make ratting solo, and compares unfavorably to just mining in highsec.The entire concept of nullsec space and alliances is 1. high reward to balance the high risk and 2. working together to achieve this. Right now there is just no incentive to band together and go do things like mining fleets that should generate both great income (creating the reason to bother) and great PvP opportunities, enabling the emergent content nullsec players love.The fundamental question is, "Why should I even undock in nullsec space?" Right now EVE does not have enough good answers.Note: I'm no expert in ISK/hour ratios for everything under the suns, so feel free to correct and/or enlighten me.
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Oh if CCP Reads this...I have 3 Accounts and if the "goodfight" ratio drops more than it already does, i will lose interest in the game. buff NULLSEC and nerf HIGHSEC to get more People into NULLSEC pls
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People in w-space don't go to hight sec to make their ISK. Many did when incursions were so rewarding. There was really an imbalance problem at that time. At the time, HS PvE was as rewarding, as "fun" (or more fun if you knew your sleeper site inside out) and safer.Also, too many words.
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Did you read the article or just the header?
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... aside from adapt and improve...If you're unable to deal successfully with wardecs, you shouldn't be a Corp CEO. Join a corp that has experienced players and learn from them.
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As a 1 month old player i can only agree with James.High sec is boring as fuck and if i didn't read all the stories about 0.0, low sec and wh-space i would have never played the game for more than 1 week. Tutorial is boring, EVE epic arc is boring, Missions (i can only do up top level 3 missions) are boring, i don't even want to start mining (why should i do crappy, mindless work in a game i pay for?), exploration is kind of fun for me but again very boring.Why the hell do i still play? And why did i subscribe for 3 months? Because i read and i still read all the stories about griefers awoxing people, crazy escalations that lead to huge battles, blogs of pirates going to hunt and other fun stuff that is build around PVP.Right now i'm just sitting in a station in high sec playing skill queue online and search the internet for a pirate/fw/wh corp that wants a noob in their corp so i can start the fun. I don't bother leaving the station to do the same fucking mission for the 3rd time.So please for the love of god don't make high sec even easier, it's fucking boring and i wouldn't play the game if there wasn't other space and if the real content wasn't found in other space than high sec. I hate high sec and the protection it offers, for me there is no fun and no content in high sec that i would pay for and if the last few bad things you can do in high sec get nerfed i don't think anyone would play the game after the tutorial because i don't pay to play chinese mining ops in space 2013. If i didn't read as much as i did i wouldn't play the game anymore because the content you see as a new players after the tutorial is mining afk or missions afk...that's fun for 2 days maybe or until you get the same mission a second time.Please tell me which CSM candidates want to dumb down high sec even more so i can vote for all the others who want to give me content that isn't made for monkeys or braindead people.Thank you for reading my ranta frustrated 1 month old player
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If Hisec gets nerfs, then a lot of people will move back to lo and null-sec space. This might actually make life a bit less scary for the carebears as there's won't be so many bored goons (or whoever) flying around ready to shoot them.Maybe nerfing hi-sec would be better for everyone?
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You mean dispanding the corp and creating a new one? You see just one side of the coin.
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Well done Sir. But i doubt CCP read's anything other then there daily subscription revenue
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I'm not sure that's a good answer. I think a better idea is to give high sec corps a reason to be newb friendly. Unfortunately a lot of those answers tend towards the 'theme park' style of MMO (raid type stuff).I personally have no problem with high sec heading in that direction (within reason) as I think it would make the initial few months of play much more fun, lead to better player retention, and create a breeding ground for new corporations and player groups which would ultimately enrich PvP outside highsec.The reason most people scream about nerfing highsec is that they want null to be interesting. They think profit will drive people out into null. Null is boring. I think a vast majority agrees on that point. However, that doesn't mean that high sec is perfect, or that it shouldn't be worked on.
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Flip this and make it next to impossible to earn large sums of money in highsec. Everyone in EVE is too rich - we need a famine
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Here's an alternative:In the same way CCP >LOVES< to f**k with rent on offices, how about nerf refining in highsec for large-volume stacks? Say, maybe a career carebear has a giant amount of ore to refine and suddenly is getting 35% less refined materials, "For the good of nullsec" that would bring people to lowsec/nullsec for better amounts/prices and result in better KM's.-OR-How about (in the spirit of boot.ini) CCP were to "accidentally" delete the autopilot avoidance system, making autopilot take direct routes thru null/low-sec.
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One of the holding factors in Highsec balance may be the marketplace. I've noted that belts are more overcrowded and stripped these days in highsec than ever before and yet low end mineral prices have not plummeted. They've dropped very slightly over the past half year but they have not plummeted. There was a time when Trit sold for just over 2 ISK a unit. Happy times. Even with so much more mining going on prices remain high on low end ore products.High end ore products are also not currently breaking the bank. If the price of Morphite or Zydrine suddenly spiked and became a huge factor in the production cost of ships and modules we'd see a balance point where people go back to nullsec and lowsec to get it. I agree with you that 2 hours AFK highsec mining is more desirable than 1 hour watching local like a hawk, but what if the balance were 20 minutes to 2 hours? There IS a break point in there somewhere that's different for each player but as it's said everyone has their price. Perhaps a nullsec cartel implementing price controls on Morphite and Zydrine sales is in order?
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Or, better yet: Turn off regional Marketplace for a month and see what happens.
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If we're talking about conflict-drivers, I don't see the advantage of this proposal over others that deal primarily with buffing null sec income and making changes to sov mechanics. If the problems with null sec are (1) that sov mechanics disincentivize sov warfare, and (2) that top-down income makes null sec organizations ever larger and more risk-averse, it doesn’t follow that making high sec income less efficient would act as a conflict-driver.The argument seems to be that increasing risk in empire space would inevitably drive players out of empire, and that more players in null would inevitably lead to more fights. But let’s say that CCP makes all substantial income sources in Eve subject to the risks associated sov null … without fixing the problems with sov null. Would that motivate warfare (in the long run), or would it motivate organizations to mitigate risk to the greatest extent possible? And wouldn’t minimizing risk involve joining larger entities, and forming non-invasion pacts between large entities?And finally, even if null and empire are both “fixed,” why would any rational actor still not choose to mitigate risk, and why would we expect any non-rational actor to carve out a place in sov null? If you think that -A- failed because they just couldn’t be bothered to form a coalition of their own, why would you follow their example?Yes, PvPers will still want to PvP, but the “limited engagement” agreements between coalitions still make more sense on a macro level than what James would call emergent gameplay. I don’t see how nerfing empire would change that.
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The more I read your posts the more I believe you are not a real newbie. But in case you are, go give e-uni a chance. Go , join LSC asap, and get fights on a near daily basis. Cruisers on corp fleets are reimbursable, and there are people running l4 missions that let you salvage their stuff. And they've been war decced by various griefer corps for 8 months straigt, all that has changed from thaat is a couple wiki pages with better highsec survival info.
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Why blame the victims?Imagine a group of people new to the game. They're friends and they start a corp. They've trained up to some battlecruisers and fleet up for some level 4's. The corp is having fun, making some isk, gaining membership, and planning their next steps (wormholes, lowsec, null, etc). But wait, now that they have 30ish members and are actively recruiting they get the attention of a wardec corp. The aggressing corp camps their system(s) with t3's, recons, sbs, and faction battleship effectively keeping the defenders in station. The newer players are confused at why they're unable to play the game they're paying for and just wish it was all over with so they can go back to exploring this amazing game. Most members will leave to join an NPC corp or just quit the game altogether because they feel burnt. The corp is reset to step 1 if it recovers at all.This scenario is exactly what happened to my previous newbie corp. We coulda been your next target in lowsec or null but the greifer wardec corps shut us down before we had a fighting chance. I'm not suggesting an end to all wardecs, but (as usual) EVE's mechanics favor the richer vets over the noobs so disproportionately that noobs have no real incentive to keep playing (they won't ever win).Perhaps if there was a different algorithm behind the cost for wardeccing this wouldn't be such a problem. For example, if a corp with an average of 50mil SP per player decs a corp with an average of 5mil SP per player, the dec will cost more to begin with and will increase at a faster rate than that of a dec between two corps with equal SP. My example is bad, and has tons of flaws, but my point is that the one-sidedness of the vast majority of high-sec wars could be mitigated.The fact that you say these corps are cowardly just means you're on top of the learning curve (or should I say cliff) of EVE and, IMO, you should NOT be able to grief new players for months on end because you know more about the game.By all means, kill the nubs that get suspect flags. Kill 'em as they jump into lowsec for that skillbook. Suicide gank their retrievers. Plex scam 'em! That's stuff newbies can learn from and is all adding to the "cold, dark universe" of EVE. Being forced to stay docked for a month because some guys in a ship you can't even pronounce is outside your station 24/7 is just boring and annoying.
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Amen
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Ah, the "we keep prices low" argument. It's nice to see the classics brought out from time to time.
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Eve is a nice looking game, and the interface looks nice too.
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There is a rather long thread on GD atm all about making the necessary improvements to null sec to make industry viable, and it's looking like, which ever way you dice it, the only way to do this is to nerf hi-sec.I suggest you read it.
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Subs are peaking right now, evidence that the changes have been positive for the vast majority. Sorry CCP isn't adhering to 'your fundamentals' of EVE. I find your article pretentious and your miner bumping / can flipping exploitative of those who choose not to play your way. Hard to imagine 'disaster' when the changes are supporting increased play. Maybe disaster for you, but then the shoe would be on the other foot wouldn't it? Someone else dictating your play? Perhaps there is a lesson to be learned there.
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He is not. He used to be in Goonswarm and thanks to the new voting system he will probably end up getting a lot of votes from nullsec, but he's not the primary candidate.
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How to be risk-averse AND a super elite harcore pvp badass? Simple, just join the biggest Nullsec players! You stand to lose little even if you fuck up, nobody will push you around, AND you can still act like you are living on the edge daily.Goonswarm is not the glorious alternative to the Empire, it IS the Empire. Nothing wrong with that, mind you - sandbox etc, but please do not pretend that the goons are the one alternative to carebearing, they're just carebears that swear a lot and pick on smaller carebears.
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Agree, add to that a way to tax more than just bounty and mission rewards, and I think we'd see huge improvements.
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Although I mostly agree with the writer he has to take into account the proflieration that has been going on in the nullsec coalitions / existing playerbase.In the real word corporate powerblocks can be mitigated by antitrust (competition) law, EVE has no such thing, so you need some means of leveling the playerfield. Although this should never go as far as to disincentivise well organized (meta) gameplay, if you allow the mean boys to smother any delicate flower that starts EVE (to turn out in to a welcome addition), you and up without any new flowers, and what would a world be without new seeds and flowers.Existing players getting cheap shots at teh weak is just crappy gameplay, a good game incentivises big boys fighting big boys, which it currently does not enough..
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Could'nt be more agree
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Wow... until the end I wasn't expecting you to have written that article, James! Anyway I like the more rational approach on this one ;) You make some good points and are right about the too safe High-sec we now know. I'm just a new player, but my experience with both PvP and Industry let's me dream to play it like the old vets did. (Or their nostalgia is overestimated.)
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James315 has a lot of followers, but also a lot of enemies. I, personally like some of his ideas. Only his roleplaying of being the saviour of high-sec is a bit over the top if you ask me. (Well I hope he's roleplaying :p )
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Hahaha yea, with each article about him or by him I'm getting more eager to give him one of my votes too :)
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I approve!
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Let me start first with the first rule of statistics: Correlation doesn't imply Causation!Why are there less Hulk kills?Maybe because people fly it less after Hulkageddon? Or maybe people got bored ganking?Sorry... there are many more reasons, if you are willing to look beyond the propaganda and attempts to indoctrinate the masses.As for the lack of good fights Sov space is composed of huge swaths of corps and coalitions which are blue to each other; hence if you want to get enough targets you have to go 40+ jumps to the other side of the galaxy! Also when a budding PvPer shows up at a station you see the opposition undocking 2 logies, bunch of battlecruisers, tacklers and etc. This doesn't say I want a good fight; it says I want a killmail... badly! So next time this person will go in a different place; where there will be better opportunities for a real good fight.Ganking is alive and well; just look at the killboards.Flying officer fit battleship on PvE missions – blap, shipping 100bil worth of cargo in a Obelisk – blap. After all somebody needs to give out Darwin Awards and trim the flock.As for nerfing hisec; lets me remind everybody that we all started with 5000ISK and a Velator!There are not that many opportunities for somebody unwilling to join nullsec sov corp.PvE – 3 months standings grind to Lvl 4 missions and you need to get into a battleship, to get reasonable income stream; to allow yourself to even think of loosing dozen of T1 Cruisers to oposing forces.Mining – You can start almost right away (it is only few weeks to get into Retriever), but less income.Both of those provide relatively fixed amount of income that requires to spend time on it (if you are not a bot).PvE increases the money supply in EVE Online in form of bounties and mission rewards; and some commodities that can be bartered for ISK. Mining generates only commodities.Mining provides influx of minerals and in long term will deflate the prices of all items if the supply surpasses demand. There is natural source of inflation which is expanding player base, that is not exactly predictable; while the inflation from PvE can be probably calculated in advance and easily managed.For comparison the little bees are fed on moongoo from their first day in the game.Moongoo is still being created while you are mostly AFK, and is guaranteed income, as long as you can keepyour territory intact. Also because it is commodity it is not sensitive to inflation (I.e. you can just rise prices on it).Hence nerfing hisec only benefits the wealth of the sov holding corporations, by reducing the supply of minerals and increasing the prices of all goods, which means that the sov with most moons would win this economical war. While all silly carebears with their fixed income are put out of business; without firing a single shot.Victory achieved!Sun Tsu would be proud!
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I've always found it bizarre that people who bemoan the lack of easy targets in nullsec want to fix the problem by nerfing highsec. Nullsec isn't empty because highsec is too easy. Nullsec is empty because CCP nerfed the hell out of it starting with Dominion and continuing with recent changes. It's empty because the only way to support yourself in null is by milking moons for goo, which pushes everyone into big blue blobs. Seems to me that it would make more sense to fix null by making a reason to go there. Right now, there isn't much of one except for participating in great big blobfest battles. For small-gang pvp NPC null, W space and lowsec are much better venues, and if you just want to gank miners and haulers, then why push them out to null when you already have such a target rich environment in highsec? Plus, while mining boats got a EHP boost, its also worth noting that the recent trend in ship balancing has been toward significantly greater DPS for significantly less isk. When 10m ISK cruiser hulls now routinely deliver 500-600 DPS, and Tornados can alpha for 12000 HP it's not that hard to shoot people in highsec. Freighters and haulers still get ganked with great regularity and for huge profits to the gankers and crushing losses to the victims. Seems to me that highsec is working pretty much as intended, it's null that's broken. Fix null and maybe people will find it interesting to be there again.
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I need to get you and Trebor on the show for a debate. Hit me up on twitter or ingame through DJ FunkyBacon please.
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Every night I have a dream. I dream that the game code goes haywire and hisec becomes like nullsec. No concord...no rules...and lots of death.It's only till you have lost everything that you are free to do anything
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Eve does have a save new place for Newbies - the starter systems.In all seriousness, not even James 315 goes there. You do **not** mess with people in the starter systems.I'd even be in favor of making them starter constellations of 2-3 systems instead of just systems, so people could gt a few more mechanics down like missions and the like before we turn them loose into the void.
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Many of my games are from Paradox, Darkest Hour and it's mods my favorite. I have also been playing Eve on and off since 2007.
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James315, I'll never be one of your cultish followers, but you may have one of my votes now.You may have misunderstood what Trebor said in the CZ interview - my understanding was that he suggested removing war decs mostly as a thought exercise, to really get at why they're here and what we want them to be.
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No one who has a positive IQ pays a sub to get griefed by people with far more ISK and SP than they have. However feel free to keep telling yourself that.
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"According to my theory, CCP coveted the subscription revenue of mainstream, theme park MMOs,"I'm rolling my eyes right now.No, really, I am.Name one mainstream, subscription theme park MMO that has more subs than EVE (except WoW).I won't hold my breath, because there isn't one.
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Sadly, not many paradoxians play EVE. We tried to create a corp, but many of the existing players were already in corps and didn't like to leave to join a paradoxian corp. :/
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well you certainly won't be jumping to Star Citizen ANYTIME soon rofl
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Not sure I agree entirely with this article, as well written and thought out as it seems to be. I think the solution is simpler that it seems. Buff low/null a bit, then make an "actual differentiation" between low and null sec. Hear me out for a sec.Low sec isn't really "low security" it's more like "no security." Gate guns are too easy to tank; they can barely blow up a Bantam. Most people wouldn't mind all the risk in low/null except for one risk in particular; the gate camp. This mechanic has always been cheap and pathetic. An easy fix to spread people all over the Eve verse again would be to simply make the gates in low sec able to blow away almost anything quickly. This would provide low sec with "some" security as the name implies. It would still have all the risk everywhere within it except at the gates.Now you would have completey safe high sec, partially safe low sec, and completely unsafe null sec. You buff low and null accordingly and viola, you have a reason for people to want to go out there again, and more people willing to go out there for all kinds of different reasons. The main advantage would be you'd have a lot of people going out to low now just to explore and see what's there, willing to take the risk because they know that the field is now an actual battlefield instead of one large trap waiting to be sprung.The problem isn't so much with high sec. If anything, the present high sec situation shows what people want and what they enjoy. Remember, this is a game. Games are played for enjoyment and fun. Add potential for fun and enjoyment, you add to the game and the subscriptions.Making the verse more approachable and more "worth the risk" of actual combat and not cheap gate camp kills would make the game more fun for MANY. (and I say that with confidence only because of how many have told me what keeps them "from" actual and good pvp).I've been playing Eve since just after launch. In the early days, I loved pvp and exploring like a "Kirk" or "Picard". Loved being and doing the pirate thing too. Then the gate camp thing got really polished and easy for people to perfect and perform. Well, myself and lots of people went to high sec of course for obvious reasons. Good actual pvp couldn't be found anymore. It was all about setting up the gate camp and snagging whomever. Booooring. The FPS analogy doesn't fit cuz in FPS's, it's not about some "gate camp" mechanic. It's about people willing to go out on the "battlefield" and do some fun pvp. This is what Eve is missing. CCP is not holding on to the high sec thing too much. What's killing it is that CCP is holding on to the gate camp thing too much.And no, I'm not whining about gate camps, I'm pining for the real sandbox low sec would become without the gate camps. You could still have them in nul sec and you'd see the drastic contrast in where all the sandbox pvp/exploration etc. would occur.My conclusion: fix low sec, then buff low and null and you'll see the masses flooding back out there faster than you can say, "what gate camp?"Just my 2 cents worth (which added to another 23 cents won't even get you a phone call anymore : P )
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Obviously everyone does not agree. There are members of CCP who do not agree. There are CSM members and candidates who do not agree. There are hi-sec pubbies who do not agree. If everyone agreed, this article would be unnecessary. James is giving a strong voice to what many already think; such an act is what most consider noble journalism.
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First of all suicide ganking and wardec griefing (not counting disruption of null sec alliance logistics) are quite risk free activities. There is a player base that doesnt care about the pvp and is the target of the high sec changes. These players have as much right to play their game as the griefers, however the carebear activities do not affect others, only industrial competition and high sec incursion challenges.2nd. You say eve is supposed to be dark place and is important feature yet you say that everyone will move to high sec. If that happens (which i doubt would, who in his right mind would leave space where 100-150 mil / hour can be made to go mine and make what ? 30 mil / hour?) this would mean that people dont realy care about that and it has no weight. Theres plenty of the darkness in low / null sec.Now mining, it is supposed to be easy money because its specialized, youre stuck with mining and have to train other skills to do other activities while combat toons can rat, pvp, run missions, do exploration and ofc do suicide ganking and griefing. Multiboxig you say? How much can you make with a multibox fleet in a 00 incursion?
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I started out doing wardecs with 5m SP, flying a autocannon Punisher and then a 'cane, and killed plenty of chars in my first months who undoubtedly had SP amounts manyfold mine. SP is important, but mindset is even moreso. In fact it's probably 95% of what you need.
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So you mean nullsec?
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So what is your argument?
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This article got you my CSM vote.
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No, without manufacturers and miners the prices would skyrocket. Those words, however, are not synonyms for 'carebear'.
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And once again you avoid the fact of the matter. People aren't paying for grief, If that's all they get they leave and don't come back. Even if they stay in the NPC corp they risk becoming bored and quitting from lack of positive social interaction. And no, ganks decs and greifing is not positive social interaction.
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There is no much risk deep in sov space if you are part of the said sovereignty. Nullsec is full of miners and carebaers too. If you don't believe me try finding anything ganked in NOL-M9 (It is goon's trade hub). While there are people routinely ganked at Jita or Ueadama. So I would even argue that sov space is significantly safer then empire space, because sov corp fly "not blue shoot" policy; have superior intel and pretty much infinite supply of ships.
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Except that safety is provided by the vigilence and hard work of thousands of players, not handed on a platter to apathetic, self-entitled morons.
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I pretty much completely agree with the content of this article, but it ignores some other motivating factors behind both the death of combat in nullsec and the rise of highsec carebearing, in my opinion.1) Cost of death. I've been playing EVE for a long, long time, and I distinctly remember that losing a ship, be it a frigate or a battleship or any T2 short of a faction-fit, was painful.. but not debilitating. For the average player with only a few hours to spend on EVE a week, the 'time spent gaining ISK to pay for ships lost' ratio seems to have been getting worse, year by year.I think the problem was intentional, to be honest, because for many people I know, myself included, as the 'time I can spend in EVE' dropped and the 'time I have to spend in EVE to pay for ships' increased, I and many others who have those real-life jobs covered the gap with buying and selling GTC's. This made CCP money, although I wonder how much, since a GTC bought by me to pay for a ship was some other dude not paying for his next month of carebearing.Either way, GTC's covered the gap. However, and this is just my own personal experience here, I've found that the number of GTC's required quickly grew from 1 a month, maybe 2, to now where if I truly did wish to PvP daily (and could even find pew pew at all), it would take 5, 10, or more to continue to put me into ships.This is a natural progression brought on by the ever-increasing skill & size of ships used by players as they play the game longer, sure, but I don't think that can fully account for the 'time needed to raise money' versus 'time needed to lose that money'. It really feels like it has gotten to the point where one must have this carebear high-sec alt just to afford any real level of pewpew in nullsec. This was NOT always the case, that much I remember.2) This "monetization" of EVE that you speak of -- people talking about CCP's revenue, and so on, is more poison than you described. I think one of the worst moments in EVE was when people started talking about the real world cost of ship loss. Everyone remember that diagram of the various ships, up to the Avatar, and how many man-hours and how many US dollars they were worth? Talk about a DE-motivator. Why would I, an average person, risk a $7,000 ship? This ships in space game becomes a lot less fun when you start tacking up what it actually costs you to do it.3) Botting. I've never looked into it, not sure if you can, but it is my understanding that in early 2012, CCP cracked down hard on ye olde Chinese. But here's the question I never found an answer to -- did they, when they started ban-hammering a significant source of low-end minerals like trit into the market, lower the low-end mineral requirements of ships? I know at the time they didn't, which is how standard battleship hulls and such had their average cost explode over a few months as trit prices rose.All these people moving into high-sec to mine and all this code change put in to make mining more safe; could it all be a long-term reaction to the loss of all the botters? Certainly, at the least, when making decisions like this, I would think some serious thought would need to be put into it that I'm not sure was -- did anyone at CCP examine the market cost of banning all the farmers, in both the short and long term? They were serving a real purpose -- the rest of the player base just wanted to pew pew, and cheap easy to get ships would mean not pew pewing and instead mining, and they did it instead, and for cheap.4) Which leads me to my last point -- if, as James 315 asserts, the great fun of EVE comes from war -- comes indeed from pew pew -- for some (large) % of the playerbase, I posit that that same % of the playerbase would rather pew pew all their waking time in EVE than spend any amount of it, much less the majority of it, fucking mining and mission running in high-sec. While the subscription count for EVE continues to crawl up, I suspect the # of players online and the rate of growth for subscriptions would both be far greater if the average pewpew player could log in, find some pew pew, and log out in the couple of hours he has a day to play EVE without it meaning for each day he did that, he had to spend 2, 3, 5, or more days in high-sec grinding ISK. I don't pretend to know how you fix it (other than massively lowering the mineral requirements on all ships), but it is certainly the reason *I* have effectively stopped playing, and have now twice debated cancelling my subscription despite knowing it means no more training and basically saying 'I'm never coming back'.
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Nobody cares about a 5 million ISK variance in price of a Drake or whatever. That's my argument.
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From what I can gather, he was mistakenly permabanned for a supposed EULA infraction, CCP then rescinded the ban as it was a mistake on their behalf, so he should be good to run for CSM. Besides, politicians are expected to have skeletons in their closets.
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And if it is way higher?
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It's not quite that simple, is it? A noobie zone needs to be able to finance a noobie's graduation to riskier, more rewarding zones, no? At least, graduation to the next-riskier/next-more-rewarding zone?There should be more a gentle gradient than a sharp cliff.Or, better: there should be sharp cliffs, for those who enjoy jumping off cliffs, but there should also be less-steep slopes. Kind of like a ski resort.The hard part it keeping griefers from using high tech to prey upon those who cannot afford it. The increased resistance of Venture mining frigates to warp-scrambling is a step in this direction.Perhaps something like the Zones of Thought in Vernor Vinge's A Fire Upon the Deep? Maybe, if you bring T2 into high-sec, it should malfunction and rot?
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Good point! Generalizes the premium a character pays in taxes, for the immunity it confers from WarDecs, when the character stays in a newbie-corp.There could also be Environmental Regulations: only environmentally-safe T1 products can be manufactured in HiSec; to manufacture that nasty T2 Stuff, you have to go where the environmental regulation is less strict. Perhaps make it even more finely-grained?
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there are lots of simple and overlooked ways to make everyone happy here.some people legit want a noobie safe zone.simple fix - look at all that jovian space that is used for jack all but alliance tourneys. you start your life in eve as a jovian in jovian space, you complete the tutorial and your jovian toon dies in some mission cut off from the rest of the jovians, and then is then reborn as one of the 4 races, and spawns in a usual noob systemalternate simple fix - 1.1 security systems - you cant shoot other players in them, newbies spawn in them, there are small groups of 2-3 of them at most, they provide small levels of income due to heavy industrialization, and provide level 1 missions for noobs to get started. mining in these systems would be pointless once you get into a retriever and a multiboxer wouldnt even waste their time thinking about it.simple wardec fix - you cannot war dec a corp that is less than 10-50% of your corps size, depending on overall size of the two corps. prevents big alliances fucking with smaller ones. prevents one man corps being decced by the majority of others.there are already a lot of other good ideas in the comments - i see one about taxes - taxes everywhere in highsec make sense, everyone needs their $.02moving things in a freighter should cost some kind of isk, like export/import tax on planets. call it loading and unloading fees. not too solid on this one. kind of a stab in the dark idea.my point is there are a lot of out of the box ideas that could really take effect well here. this isnt going to be a simple fix, CCP needs to realize this.
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Insightful, but a tad over-the-top.CCP are trying to get both the money from the Bears/StampCollectors and the money from more adventurous players.The Problem is not diversity of styles of play, it's the insistence of some players that CCP must, by tuning Game-design, systematically exterminate all styles of play other than their preferred style.
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I can think of a few ways to fix this. Most people probably won't like them:1) Reduce all asteroids in high-sec to hundreds of small grains, remove all big ones so that no mining barge can even get a quarter-cycle worth per asteroid. Reduce overall mineral composition per high sec belt to less than a battleship worth. This lets new players try mining out, and make a little money, but big timers won't be able to satisfy their needs in high sec.2) Move all Level 3 and 4 missions to low-sec. If you want destroyer money, stay in high sec, everyone else expose themselves.3) Move moon-mining arrays outside POS shields. Make them destructible fairly quickly with a moderately sized gang. Consider this the first step in implementing farms and fields. This simple change will make it foolish for null-alliances to ignore hostiles moving through their space, as they could quickly lose their moon income until replacement moon harvesters can be anchored and on-lined.Also, I'm not opposed to removing war decs completely, provided we're allowed to shoot anyone, anywhere, at anytime. Remove war decs, remove CONCORD, simple as.
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There are some really good points made in this article and in the comments. An example would be that If CCP really wanted to cater to the newbies they would set aside or create a set of systems for newbies to learn the basics, risk free, and to be prepared for the risk/reward environment that brought them to Eve in the first place. A 1.1 sec area where pvp is impossible and that higher level players are not allowed to go to would be nice but there would have to be some very descriptive bits put in to make them aware of the dangers that awaits them once they are about to move onward and upward in Eve. That could solve the newbie favoritism issue.The risk/reward problem: We all came to Eve because of it's unique nature. It's a dark digital reality where anything goes. Where anything could happen anywhere. To take that away and make Eve just another "theme park" would kill what we were all drawn to. Please consider what it is that we all love about this broken awful game before you risk killing it by removing what makes it so attractive. So people don't want to get killed all the time. Then they would be better off in another game all together. Isn't that what we've been saying all along? To remove the risk from the reward by making highsec pvp free would mean to remove the nature of the sandbox and make it concrete. That doesn't sound fun to me at all and I've been both a high sec miner and a null sec pvp'er so I understand both sides of this. Basically, the recent massive increase in subs wasn't because of Eve Online being another "theme park" game. It was because things can happen in this game that can't happen in the rest of them. If you remove what has drawn them to the game, your risk losing everything that makes this game what it is.
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Hint: It wouldn't be. Nerfing highsec safety back to (for example) pre-barge buff levels wouldn't send prices as high as you seem to think it would.
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Does that not play a bit fast and loose with the meaning of "on the line?"In what meaningful sense is a large fleet of faction-fitted battleships "on the line" when camping a station or a gate against a small fleet of T1 cruisers?
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The thing about a sandbox, is that not only are you free to do with it what you will, but you can have your sandcastle smashed at any time by other people. Sure, you have the freedom to do what you want, but you don't get the luxury of being free from what other people want.The only activity that should be safe is the act of trade in stations. The only reason for this, is that you don't have trade when you have a system where there are no consequences for killing and destroying. High sec should be a place where new players and traders/manufacturers hang out. All other money making should take place in an environment where people are exposed to danger from each other. If all the people passively generating money in High Sec had to move to low sec to continue generating ISK at the same rate, think of the possibilities there would be for CVA type coalitions of players banding together for protection. It wouldn't be a gankers paradise, it would be an interactive sandbox paradise.
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If you can't find a fight when you go on a roam, a problem I haven't faced on my roams, perhaps then you are in the minority of the subscriber base. The others don't want to play with you. When I go on losec or nullsec roams, if I don't get into a fight, its because my fleet is out gunned and we avoided it. I don"t pvp in highsec. I do make isk there. Not afk, running lvl 4's. I go to lo or null to pvp because ppl there are or at least should be wanting to fight. Are you such a coward that you only want to fight unprepared opponents that are basically defenseless? In my experience if you want to find a fight in eve you can find it. Maybe not in a 50 man fleet, maybe not in your T3 cruiser. But in a reasonable fleet with a ship that doesn't scare away the opposition you can find a fight. Your problem is you want risk free pvp. Grow a pair and look for a fight against a real opponent, leave the carebears alone.
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What you think you're paying for is irrelevant. It's what you bought that matters.You bought into an open-world game where scamming and griefing are encouraged. You don't get to dial that back and put a stop to it because it doesn't suit you. We all pay a subscription, and most of us pay that subscription so we can kill people like you whether you like it or not.
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I have to shake my head on an article--if not for its length--would appear to be a flame bit. The almost complete lack of numbers and facts whether it is written to persuade, or just massaging the people who already share the same, biased opinion.A couple of things to consider:1) What does "nerfing" mean? Nerfing highsec? Nerfing wardec? The term can be used on a module or a ship, but intricate and large systems like highsec space and wardecs, I'd prefer using the term of "balancing", so people wouldn't think that I'm oversimplifying the topic to create an inaccurate "with me or against me" scenario.2) CCP doesn't need to "abandon their core principles" in favor of increasing subscriber revenue (whatever that means). CCP needs to reinforce their core principles (whatever that means), and make necessary changes to those, in order to increase their profit in this game.Without reading any number and fact on how exactly highsec is becoming "too safe", and how much isk are people in highsec is making, I can only deduct that the author is trying to accomplish nothing but to vent his frustration against CCP, for the company is currently focusing their balancing effort on an area of the game that he actively hates. I don't know about you guys, but I'd rather just read a better version of the "conclusion" section in front of the post and save the effort of coming up the rest.
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Good read, agree with all of it I think ))
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Ganker tears. James your rambling left me hard pressed to read the last 1/4 of the article.Does High Sec need to be fixed yes.You adapted out of solo ganking to group ganking. This was intended by CCP.So you cant kill a Retiever in 4 shots with a thrasher anymore?Just becuase a player cant solo Gank anymore (and actually you can solo a Retriever that has no tank) doesn't mean it ruined the game.Does this mean you have to rethink how you play yes. Crying about it will not change this. Infact the more you do the more I laugh.Maybe its not the way you like to play.And you did not go into the mineral, ice or resource fixes that could be put into the game to fix the problems with the market.I know that normally Gankers are the lowest of the low in Eve and real life. They are the bullies of eve. Picking on the weakest target to Pad the stats on some killboard made by players.Why dont you learn how to really PVP and go fight?Null Bear Miner, Bomber Pilot, PVPer, Ganker Hunter.Shooting at a ship without guns is akin to hitting a female. It does not make you brave. It makes you a jerk.Anon
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They automatically lose their ship, whereas the victim does not. I'd say that's a decent risk. The annoying thing about your point is that you act like victims can do nothing about the ganking. Yet every other gank in high sec is a miner with absolutely no tank mods. If the sheep want to stop being sheep, maybe they should stop acting like them, get off their asses and assess what they can do to change things rather than bleep like idiots and hope someone comes to save them.The number of miners that I see in high sec cry when someone ganks them and ask someone else to help is hilarious. Rather than do something themselves, they expect someone else will. Of course, because all miners feel the same, nothing ever gets done.You really want to end ganking in high sec? Start a movement, like James, about getting back at gankers. Make a list of the characters that have ganked miners. Pursue them perpetually and gank them back. THAT would be actually doing something.
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Damn - You might actually be worth voting for.Didn't expect a well written and accurate article with good perspective.On your blog you just come across as the average retard griefer when you are really helping the bears.Maybe more well written stuff like this and the people you kill will even vote for you.
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A very good article, i enjoyed it.In fact i already cancelled one of my three accounts. Because nullsec was increasingly becoming only two things - gate camps or structure shoots. The small gang warfare is just too rare. Keep in mind i live in one of the best alliances where we get almost every ship paid by reimbursement program. I.e. we have no hold backs on - lets us lose ships in pursuit of good fights. But ... its getting less and less convenient to travel 25 jumps to try to gang-rape the rare tengu ratting in a dead end system.Also its even harder to provoke fights as going into enemy territory has no immediate response. There is just too much unused territory, empty systems that was claimed for sov - an odd tech moon or simply a region hold for the local superpower that has blues or spies with everyone you might know or ever met.Increasingly our fleet fights has became a rape fest of 20vs1 (almost always at a heavily bubled gate).I did not came for this crap.
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Honestly James are these Care bears you talk about really exist in those numbers you speak of?or are they ALT:s of nullsec/wh/lowsec players or even alts to gankers to infiltrate and get targets.Let me look at my own Nullsec corp most of our members have multiple alts in highsec (i have multiple highsec alts for example but only one real nullsec character ) what are they used for Logistic work for me and my Corp and for industry work. Industry that Nullsec can't substain on its own and must import.So lets focus on what a highsec player is from my point of view. * An Industrialist (builder/researcher that supports Null/WH/Lowsec) by building researching Tec2 stuff* A Miner (Harvest the lowend ores that we need to build ships/modules/ammo)* Hauler Alt ... yes stuff have to be moved and big stuff need to be hauled JumpFreighter/Freigher pilots is often in High sec around the tradehubs.* Trader .. some persons like the Market PVP and competing with market bots* Mission runners (CAREBEARS) --- SOLO PVE* Incursion runners (CAREBEARS) -- Group PVE* Suicide gankers -- griefers with no life* Wardecers -- Griefers with no life* neutral alts for specific jobs as remote repair , gank cleanup hauler etc.Then we have to look at how old a player is in eve and how mutch ISK he got accumulated. How big risk factor for CCP it is if he gets suicided killed.A new player 15days old flying in a Retriver getting blowup is more likely to stop playing the game as you set him back to square 1 and lets face it, From a new player perspective Mining is worth alot more then mission running. This is because Level1 mission pays so little and as a miner you can harvest alot of ore that they can just sell the ore for good isk. once you hit Level3 missions your equal and Level4 missions beats mining. but can a New player see this? No, so he sticks to mining and figures out once I "got enough" isk I can do something else. (faulty view on the game)I can look back and still remember my first Biljon can you? how hard I worked to get it and seeing my wallet flash over 1b was amazing ....Eve highsec doesn't need a nerf I belive we should instead bolster the Industry capability in Nullsec/Lowsec/wh by fixing the POS:es and adding denser ore types of the lowend ores in low/null.When it comes down to ICE mining i think ice in nullsec should be alot denser and the current one we got in nullsec should move to lowsec so yes you can mine ice in highsec but mining it in nullsec is 40% more profit.From my own point of view, I have spoken to so many new players who thinks mining will help them get started playing eve. I often tell them to play the game as they want to play it. if they want to mine ore and build stuff do that. If you want to run missions alone do that. If you want to pvp smallscale join a Lowsec pirate corp, if you want to pvp in big fleets find a nullsec corp who takes in new players. Also i often tell them Mind your Corp history since it will reflect on your character. Then the most important lesson of them all don't join a 5-10man mining corp in highsec from a player who is 5month old. since you will get wardeced, you will get killed and you will lose your shiny.Most corps are very new player friendly so good luck .... just do a checkup on them and join something that feels stable.
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Unfortunately this will all fall on deaf ears. Idiots like Ripard and Trebor will continue to be idiots and think that chasing after a demographic that has NEVER been interested in EVE is better than improving it for the demographic that has allowed it to thrive for ten full years while also ignoring just how difficult it is to capture those types of players for any length of time in the first place. Look at the dozens of other theme park and wow-esque MMOs have been released over the years, look how many of them fizzle and die after a few months. You get a nice bubble of carebears at the release, then they all lose interest and ubsub after 3 months and the games die on their arse. Sounds like a great future for EVE.
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Tldr: null moonbear tears.....
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PvE in Null sec has a reason. Gaining Sec Status, unless of course you'd rather fly your -10 toon into High and PvE with CONCORD
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you, "not so anonfahamaggotrywhatever," are a poopsock.Great job James.
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Well written article, and at least not written in your usual form of a mildly retarded sociopath. I find the article still filled with mostly pointless drivel. Why don't you find a job, bagging groceries perhaps, or helping little old ladies cross the street, instead of bring us with these utterly long and useless diatribes you god damn hippie!
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you're what I would call a good newbie.. I recommend researching decent fits, starting your own one man corp and deccing those that are "carefree floating around in space looking at stars". You will learn alot from the experience, get a few kills under your belt.. and it will get you ready for low/null. Good luck and godspeed.
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Barnsy, you talk as though the new miner has trained all the PVP aspects as well as mining. New players to the game can't have all the skill sets that older members have. You can't expect the newb miner to be on par with those who have gone the route of PVP. I understand that there is a faction of people who seem to totally despise the fact that people like to mine, which has never made any sense to me. People like to be able to play and do as they like, whether it be mission running, piracy, SOV grind, whatever the case is. Though for a long time EVE has been geared heavily towards pirates. I've spent time in Null and High Sec over my 6 1/2 years in Eve, so this is from someone seeing both sides. I have heard all the arguments and rebuttals that you can throw back at me, you are the type who only cares to see your side of the game. Doesn't matter that the high sec piracy actually drives people away from the game. Seen too many good people quit getting tired of the lack of reprisals for such a thing. It was for a while there pretty much rewarded when you got 95 percent of your isk back from the ship loss. People didn't like this and spoke out, they were whiners, but when people like you speak out, you are a bitter vet of the game. Whining is whining.WarDecs need to be revamped and worked out, but I never really ran across this being that big of an issue. Had people join the corp over the years because of WarDecs, but never heard them being something crippling to noob corps. I guess it obviously happened, but I think that them changing the costs and such was stupid.
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James 315 Mentally ill person. Speak to him and find it out for youselfs . he is just one of goonswarm fagg group . and he has confirmed it in convo.
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While im not a fan ,your arguments hold some merit.I could see where nerfing the income in high sec,and incresing it in low and null would be benifical .This if done though must also be done with fixing industry and other aspects of null space.Otherwise theres no real point Most if not all null players have high sec alts ,so they can take advantage of its manufaturing ect.Whats badly needed is modular POSes so corp and allianvces.Can do all their manufaturing in their space,and for those POSes to be conquerable ,without the massive griding we have now Also some kind of mechanism is needed so big alliances cant hold massive parts of null space.Perhaps a sliding scale for every say 5 systems an alliance holds the cost per system rises by 20%.This hopefully will encourage more corps and alliances into null ,and stop break or up the big super blocks we have now .Allowing for more wars and PvP ..So fix null ,then start nerfing high by small degrees .So CCP encourages players into low and null spaceIn my opinion just moaning about one part being broken or out of balance,and just nerfing that isnt a good way to proceed.Both parts of the game need things doing,and they should be done at the same time or as close to eachother as possible.
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10 page article and I got bored half way thru the 1st one... The arithmetics are easy. Safer high sec will make for a larger player base, meaning more tear potential albeit coming at greater expense. More dangerous high sec will cut back on player retention, meaning meaning easier tears but a much smaller tear pool. So either way I don't care. This reminds me of the Laffer curve and unless that concept is brought to the debate with actual data to back it up, both sides of this contention should just stfu.And on the risk vs reward debate, think about station trader. Doesn't get more carebear and yet, more rewarding, than that and now what? Nerf jita?
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I have a suggestion:Place ALL raw resources in null sec: asteroids, moons, interactable planets, gas, rats, whatsoever. Everything goes to nullsec or wormhole space. Make 99.9% of all systems null sec.Then place all facilities in high sec: i.e. stations with manufacturing slots and research facilities. Restrict trading to the current trade hubs only. Eg. Jita, Rens, Amarr. Therefore the only high security systems will be the trade hubs, a few surrounding "buffer systems", as well as newbie systems.And then REMOVE CONCORD. Instead, introduce PERMADEATH to characters whose security status decreases to below -5. Newbies have invulnerability for 30 days inside newbie systems, only if they are in a rookie ship.
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An ISK buff also has to be accompanied by an industry buff, or the result is massive inflation. If ASTEROIDS were worth 100% in high, 300% in low, 500% in npc null, 700% in sov null, and we had infinite research and manufacturing slots in sov null, then we'd see some movement. Otherwise, most of us have no real reason to care about null beside "good-fights". - Which essentially turns the null arena into a sports field. (Oh wait, with Thunderdome, it already is.)
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It's also wonderful to see the CSM caring about CCP's profits...
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Awww sounds like you non care bears need a Hug. Poor Babies. Well I guess I'll keep running my 6 accounts and keep making Billions of isk on an almost daily basis. Ya know it's not like you non care bear folks would ever run out of shit to do if us care bears just stopped playing EVE I mean ya know ships, ammo, rigs, drones, High Slots, Med Slots and Low slots that shit just magically grows on the market all by itself. So who was it that said, " It's not like care bears run this game"? I guess someone needs to give that ass clown retard a lesson on how shit gets done. Anyone who builds High Sec or Null Sec is a Care Bear. TY Care Bears ROCK your EVE gaming experience.
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Aww whats a matter did I say something that you did not like. Here have a hug. You all need one. Poor babies us Industrial Care Bears have it better now that the BS gank fest is about removed and aww cant war dec us Ship building high Sec folks to stop production unless we agree to the Dec. Well it's about time. You want to grief people keep your hind end out in Low sec and Null sec. Oh but wait that would require you to have real skills. I see your problem and well I cry for you. Poor Babies can't go round griefing folks till they aquire real skills to go out and PVP folks with. Awww Lets all have a circle jerk in their honor.
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TL:DR pls?

Carebears Have Never Had It So Good

Every recent expansion has nerfed highsec risk in one way or another. Multiple nerfs to suicide ganking, especially the ganking of miners, have almost eliminated it from highsec. According to the most recent CSM minutes, exhumer explosions are occurring at "historically low rates". Can-flipping, a practice that has flowered in highsec for EVE's entire history, finally met its end in the past few months, with the addition of oversized ore bays and a "safety" button. Wardecs, despite withering under nerfs of their own, still occur. But as the CSM minutes also revealed, CCP and the CSM have been feverishly discussing the total elimination of non-consensual wardecs, too.

Once upon a time, I warned the EVE community about a dangerous trend toward making highsec safer and more attractive. According to my theory, CCP coveted the subscription revenue of mainstream, theme park MMOs, and desired to bring about a risk-free highsec--as quickly as it could be done without triggering a revolt of EVE's preexisting playerbase.

When I first voiced my concerns, many readers agreed with me. Though the transformation of EVE was in its very early stages, they could already see the writing on the wall. Others disagreed, dismissing my claims as unwarranted alarmism. They were confident that CCP was fully committed to its vision of a "cold, dark universe" and that they would never abandon the spirit of EVE in favor of chasing new subscribers. Such confidence, if voiced today, would seem quaint. I miss having skeptics.

As predicted, the unprecedented safety of highsec has not stopped the pro-carebear forces from demanding further nerfs to aggression. Despite the low rates of suicide ganking, CSM candidates such as Ripard Teg and Mike Azariah have expressed a desire to nerf suicide ganking much further. Often, the "need" for such nerfs is couched in terms of protecting newbies. In a recent Crossing Zebras interview, Ripard Teg explained that even exhumers worth hundreds of millions of ISK fall into the realm of the newbie, because a new player could easily use PLEX to start the game with a billion ISK. The idea that expensive ships need more protection from suicide ganking because a new player could fly one is one of the finest examples I've ever seen of Malcanis' Law:

Whenever a mechanics change is proposed on behalf of 'new players', that change is always to the overwhelming advantage of richer, older players.

With the extinction of can-flipping and the new rarity of suicide ganking, advocates of a safer highsec have intensified their focus on wardecs. Once again, Ripard Teg led the charge, writing of the fundamental "unfairness" of wardecs and how they cost CCP subscription revenue by driving people away from EVE. Ripard's favorite CSM member, Trebor Daehdoow, used the Winter Summit as an opportunity to lobby CCP to completely remove non-consensual wardecs (i.e. every war other than Red vs. Blue) from the game.

James 315 has a distinguished history of combat in nullsec, mostly fighting against the Band of Brothers alliance, which was a bad alliance. Recently he has moved to highsec, where he currently serves as Father of the New Order and Saviour of Highsec