On the HBC/CFC Sov-Map Domination

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Looks like I struck a nerve. Sounds like a lot of people are only interested in what's best for them and not what's best for the game. Obviously, I didn't mean nerf freighters. Let the logistics flow. But an alliance or coalition being able to spread themselves incredibly thin, give 0 fucks about defense, and not have any fear of being counter attacked while they have their entire coalitions war fleet 7+ regions from the core of their empire is bad. The reason they are able to do this is because the blob movement mechanics are too good. Maybe instead of putting a limit on the jump bridge mass per day or titan bridge, it should be on the ships that go through them. Like the cooldown on jump clones.If you think playing a game where actually having talent, good decision making, and strategic positioning shouldn't be rewarded over hurp durp, we got more peoples so we should auto-win, then you are a fucking idiot.For those people complaining about there not being enough money in nullsec, You are also retarded, Nullsec has much better isk/hour income than anywhere in highsec/nullsec. (except possibly FW, which is actually pretty dangerous) Most of nullsec is empty as fuck, and very safe and easy to bear in. You complain about null sec income while groups like Goonswarm are able to run ice interdiction, constantly invade their neighbors while having full ships replacement for the largest blob in eve all covered by sitting on tech moons. O, and aren't the perma hulkageddon rewards still up? Perhaps, null sec has just gotten so spoiled that trying to reason with many of the inhabitants is pointless. After all, the CSM really only represents nullsec, and it's been this way for years.Maybe when nullsec is a one continuous blue sea nap fest, you will realize how much more fun the null sec map was a few years ago. What I'm suggesting would support there being lots of smaller entities, which means more fights, which also means more people in space. O well, I feel as though my words are being wasted. Enjoy your big blue circle jerk......
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There is plenty of money in nullsec, the problem is many of the people who live there are just too stupid to realize how to get it.
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Humor me, how did show-stopping supercaps encourage fights?
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"Nothing" is an interesting choice of words since shitfest mechanics tend to lead to avoiding dealing with them, and NIP's are just that: avoiding the poor mechanics related to infra. The reason all NAP's and NIP's exist are afterall rooted in the mechanics and what kind of behaviour they reward in some way.So while i'd be inclined to agree with you Falin, regarding mechanics as the reason (opposed to the NAP), i also think Cannonball quite well point out that the current mechanics lead to larger yet fewer fights that impact the game negatively (ie., less daily content).
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Don't be ridiculous, they'd just bring more titans
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I have to disagree with you to a point. Nothing was worse for fights than the virtually invulnerable (thanks to log-off mechanics) "I Win" button of the supercap blob. At the same time however, an unintended side-effect of the supercap nerf was that it made it much more difficult for small "elite" pvp alliances to hold their own against blobs. Thus, you are in a sense correct because supers allowed "elite" pvp alliances to open up more fronts against larger powers. Since the nerf, groups like PL, Raiden, and NCdot have had to worker with larger coalitions to obtain sufficient subcap numbers.
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you sir . sound like a mad scrub.
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Because they are located in the same places as those previous entities on the map? Because other than that, they are distinctly different.
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Because Eve would be better if fewer people were playing. Good thinking.
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SoCo were fully capable of putting up a good fight until they diplomatically failed. The insurmountable advantage will only be there until someone with drive and determination opposes them.
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Be interesting to watch. Seems to me as the small alliance get squashed the corps just migrate into HBC/CFC. I really don't care either way, more null bears to shoot. But I wonder where this group will come from because I can't really see where they would build up such an organisation?
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It's already ridiculous that I have to have 2 accounts to move my carrier, dreadnought, and jump frieghter....3 accounts because I want to do it well. It's obvious you do not live in nullsec to know the effort, coordination, skill, and resources that go into deploying far away ( we are talking easily in the tens of billions for a small alliance to move ) let alone a powerbloc...the issue you point out...'deploy and leave their space undefended' is an issue with SOV mechanics not because my carrier can jump 13 light years w/ a whole 2 battleships in it.
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Thats far too random though, to think an all blue nullsec would fall apart from the inside. Eve players, at least some, are nothing if not intelligent. I could easily see a very large alliance intentionally, and secretly, fragmenting itself and making sure the "mother alliance" gets the juiciest regions while moving to form small hostile alliances in outlying regions for the express purpose of more pew pew.In fact it would make sense from a "global domination" strategy to unite null then the biggest power block secretly divide it up and covertly work to make it happen.Shuffle the deck, secretly pull out the best cards then throw it in the air and let it fall where it may.Tinfoil much? Maybe.
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HBC are being mean though, they won't let us use their jump bridge network to move fleets down to mess with them anymore.
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Reset Test/Reset Goons cometh THE FOREVER WAR
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There is a youtube channel I came across awhile ago which has all the sov maps in monthly animated sequences.http://www.youtube.com/user/Du...
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I would suggest a scene depicting a badger and bee caught 'together' through a door frame, scandalous looks on their faces.
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My friend here in black legion. I liked the read but to understand WHY goons and test can survive without fighting each other ever is due to culture. Goons come from something awful, our member corps come from various gaming communities outside of eve and most of us are goons in general anyways. Test at the core is all reddit or reddit lite members. Some are even goons.Every major block that has died in the past came together in the name of elite pvp and eve online, not something out of eve. Which is why if goons/test own all of eve, we might just say fuck it and shoot each other but not take sov. Eve sov is broken and this is coming from someone who likes to shoot structures, due to the ammount of eve I own, I can sit back in vfk and make you burn a month of regions and then stomp you when you get to me.
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You just keep thinking that it only takes "hurp durp, we got more peoples" to be successful in nullsec, and that "talent, good decision making, and strategic positioning " aren't a factor as it currently is.
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And then afterwards you have to reburn the month of regions because they took the sov? Sounds like fun
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Yeah. I mean the elite pvp titans can clearly beat the titan blobs of a mass of blues.
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HBC are the best elite ehonor people and we're the, uh ... I don't know, you fill in that blank.
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BadgerFuck, sounds like something very ... Deviant.
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Not necessarily, but they could also log them off if ever threatened and thus use them to their heart's content.These alliances created multiple new fronts that groups had to confront, breaking up "the blob" from a single cohesive war machine.
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I think you mean "Acronym" :smug:
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I have to say... One of the first fleets I ever went on in EVE was a DBRB fleet. I now run a corp in TEST. Fuck all the nay-sayers. Goons/TEST for life.
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Great so you just explained hw CFC and HBC both learned from IT, NC and DRF and basically if smart will never collapse under its own weight......BTW we have never seen a former "Pet" [I say that in all kindness, break away and apply what there leaders did in another secton of the map.For instance When IT was around everyone hated them, when NC was around same thing, there was always infighting between the south but in the end everyone hated NC more so the DRF was made and had even more people and beat them, then the DRF came and was made so haphazardly it didnt fall under its own weight it got greedy and was never built to rule just bult to kill the NC.....I was a war machine only.Eve has never seen 2/3rds of 00 sec Nipped and who knws maybe Solar gets a NIP if they give up AAA?Dont kid yourself, the Tech fiasco is why this is happening number 1, just like BoB before it its a totally unfair broken mechanic that makes as much money as broken FW but over last 4 years, and never before has the general south owned Tec as well as the north.PL and TEST are happy because GSF lets them keep income from the north, HUGE INCOME!, BoB never gave the north any income from Delve when Delve had 80% of the games wealth.....This means more incentive for no more war.The author assumes this has happened before, it hasnt, if it was the same as before HBC would have joined NCDOT/BL/Nulli and mapped GSF, then split up the loot, instead PL and Test are kept at bay just like all the others like Rzr FA,FCON and for godsakes Evoke now......Thats never happened.Never before has the "Evil guys" IT/BoB NC/Norc Coa and lastly DRF outnubered the rest of Eve.....Bob was vastly outnumber in the end and before hey died the Moon change hit making there area poor and the north that was like catch before and sucked ass all the sudden was golden and the best real estate in Eve.This time all the independent ALli`s in Eve dont outnumber the "Bad Guys"Until Tec is fixed itslways gonna be a major a major problem, and where as before, BoB, NC, DRF became more elite and elite, The GSF and Test are getting Richer and Richer and taking every newb in the game, ontop of bringing in outside resources from 3rd party forums etc.Essentially they are forming a never ending hoarde, but if CCP doesnt do something fast, they wont ever need real money. They need to end it now
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Soco was never big enough to take on a combined CFC/HBC force.At this stage it's impossible for any coalition to compete in a straight up numbers war. The CFC/HBC have vast numbers of pilots and huge amounts of isk behind them, as well as being very organised. It really says something when VFK is the 4th biggest market in eve. The alliances outside that coalition will never build up enough space or money to compete - regardless of how nice they are to their allies. Traditional fleet based 'elite pvp' tactics no longer work either, which has been proven repeatedly in the last year or two.It's possible that a much smaller coalition could shut down and eventually kill most of the HBC through constant griefing and sheer bloody minded grinding, since that coalition consists of a lot of casual and, well, 'victim' types of players. The CFC is much better on that count and would be far tougher to crack.In any case it'll be months or years before the status quo changes.
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he is just raging cuz his alliance probably got kicked do to blob and did not fight to defend it self. nerfing any thing that you suggest is bad!
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another 'Great War'? i highly doubt we'll see anything of that scale for at least a year and a half
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i think he means "Feared Inbred Goat Fuck"http://www.wordsmith.org/anagr...
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a cab defied urgent fork?
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I laughed.
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"We've always been at war with Esoteria"
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Dude the reason why is there is "One more Evil guy for you two to gangbang" what happens hen that stops?My money is on HBC, Seeing as if you are DBRB for real you know how bad we left your ass hurting in most fights :) , now imagine that +PL and our supers team [No matching us] and Tests numbers.We will have 300 Foxcats instead of 100 PL has now with 100 from NCDOT and 100 from Nulli and by then we could have all TEST+Nexus and Co hoping in T3 BC`s or Test in T3`s while Nexus brings 400 Rifters.In the Tribute war if we had 100 man buffer in each TZ the war would still be happening, and IMO we would have taken back UMI.So remember while there is a 3rd party "Evil" you two can point to yu wont kill eahother but when TEST realzes they are way more powerful military wise and just as powerful politically [yes they have caught up and having a huge military helps] They will figure, why just tke table scraps? Why not take the pie and give you the table scraps?Like I said as long as AAA and Solar are around you will be fine having a common enemy, once thats gone, TEST are sick of being in your shadow when what they created in 4 years is simply a better model for modern EVE.You never took in Newbs before like Test did you just had guys like Test/FA/FCON/GA do yur dirty work, thats ok but TEST actually takes Newbs and trains them using PL. who does CFC have that can train there Newb buddies? Besides LAZ`s Mael fleets and your Drake WELP welp fleets, what do you actually fly? No Armor, no T3 fleets.You depended on numbers 100% of the time. Now that you met someone who will match your numbers and who has PL/NCDOT Arguably the best 2 larger [over 1k layers] in game alone will have 200 active in each timezone. Add Nulli since its clear they were highly respected by HBC and NCDOT`s best buddies and you get another 100 solid very PVP focused crew.I agree HBC+CFC will be buddies, but in Eve there can be only one, its like highlander. HBC IMO needs to prove to people they are more than just CFC pets and CFC needs to gain respect they have lost and prove people like me wrong who think the Padawan will beat the master now.....So his assessment is ok until AAA and SOLAR is Dead and HBC realizes " Hey why dont we own the 400 Moons and give them 50 of them, we are the same size after all.Lets be real Tribute wasnt about OTEC CFC was gonna invade anyways, its why NCDOT attacked, it was about GSF needing to give GA/Xdeath an others more Tec so adding 40 Moons means 8 bil a moons and more ratting space.One us "The bad guys" were gone now its time for CFC to sit back and watch as SOLAR the ALlie who helped them fight us gets ripped apart "This way not matter what happems they can say "we never attacked Solar" we just sat back and let nature take its course. Hell I wouldnt be surprised if XDEATH pops out now and attacks Solar now at the same time.Either way Popcorns out and its gonna be awesome. In the end mark my words HBC vs CFC they wont fight to destroy one another but to esablish who is clear alpha Dog and who gets 80% of Eve`s wealth in Tech, and as soon as HBC wins I predict Tech gets Nerfed next day into stone age :) j/K
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But if you think CFC can Beat HBC I think your smokin crack, and TBH if you guys love shooting so much why then did peeps complain about Thorn having 40 guy roams in Umi area? You guys act like you are nipped but then add stipulations like cant camp systems, cant do this that and other etc to the point where its not a Nip but a modyfied NAP.ANywaysas it lay HBC would IMO mop up CFC, now if CFC was smart and got a group like NCDOT to train them like PL has trained and came up with feet doctrines for HBC it would be different story, but as much as GSF loves saying these guys havent adapted etc, niether have they, where HBC has and 4 years ago they were the Nexus of Eve today, Goons is living in past where they have always blobbed to win, well now they would fight an enemy just as large, but alot more battle ready and way smarter FC`s besides LAZ and his Mael fleets.They have shown time and again vs NCDOT/Nulli they need 2.5:1 to win, and with less they got curbstomped. to the point where they didnt fight us and we liked fighting SOLAR more and lost our SOV, it was great tactics but wont wrk on HBC.HBC is so used of fighting enemies who dont leave station, meanwhilePL+NCDOT+Nulli would probably in 400 man Foxcat gangs and biggest super group every in eve by only 3 ALliances under 4k members would kill all SOV andthe second anything changed like reinforcements hey would be even numbered but T1 vs Navy Apocs and a few captital slowBoats vs Supercaps.Sorry but if NCDOT/N3 was to join HBC to kill CFC Or get back Vale Tribute, which they would [80sh Moons] CFC has little hope if any, NCDOT/Nulli almost broke there will a few times in the fight that Goons said would take a month that took 4, and that wa with splitting of BL Bros.That wouldnt happen this time.I cant wait to be on level playing ground this time, it will be just like when DRF finally after fighting NC for 3 years coming and making numbers same. We couldnt kill them fat enough. Finally they were fighting nothing they had ever seen before....Even numbers with no Batphone large enough.....Same thing here. I dont think GSF will die but I do think HBC will pull a goons and take 1/2 there members, a trick taught by CFC itself.

The Verite influence map is probably the most widely viewed image in the EVE community, tracking sovereignty gain and loss in nullsec.  The overlays give players a tangible tool for viewing the size and influence of alliances and coalition. Though it's sometimes inaccurate, it's possible to save the daily sov map for weeks or months and watch the colors spread, retreat and intertwine.

What the map doesn't do is show an overlay for coalitions and blue lists.  The entire northwest portion of the Sov Map, for example, is controlled by a single coalition, as is the entire southwest and northeast.  The southeast is a mess of alliances and coalitions attempting to attack or defend holdings, and though -A- is shown to hold several regions, they are virtually undefended and in the process of being steamrolled by several potential sov holders at the moment.  Verite's map also doesn't show residents of NPC regions or non-sovholders.  Pandemic Legion is one of the biggest alliances in terms of supercapital numbers at the moment, but holds no sovereignty.  My alliance, Black Legion, lives in NPC Venal but likewise does not appear.

The takeaway is that it's difficult to estimate how powerful an alliance is based solely on the sov map.  Owning sov does not mean you're capable of holding it, and owning no sov doesn't mean you're incapable of taking it.  Pandemic Legion could certainly take and hold an entire region if they so wished, but this would make them less capable of deploying in distant regions.  But by keeping track of the news and forums, one begins to understand the strength of particular powerblocs and, if engaged against one another, who will cascade.

The myth perpetuated on sites like EveNews24 and the EVE-O forums is that the CFC and HBC are working in tandem to take over the entire sov map.  This is not entirely true. 

I use that caveat - entirely - because there is a non-zero possibility that the HBC and CFC could either push out or include in their respective coalitions every conquerable 0.0 region in New Eden.  Should the cards fall into place in just the right way, should diplomats and leadership enforce neutrality without failure, should the respective coalitions respect this neutrality enough to spark few if any diplomatic incidents, and should entities still exist - sov-holding or not - which can provide the occasional 'goodfites', perhaps over moons or other strategic objectives, outside of the CFC and HBC, then we might be a Sov Map entirely dominated by alliances blue to either the CFC or HBC.

That contingency is, however, both incredibly unlikely and not worth worrying about. 

The first reason that this is unlikely is that projection of power becomes prohibitively difficult beyond a certain point.  Posters on EVE-O have been arguing for years that alliances should be penalized for holding sov beyond a certain number of systems. In theory, this would limit the ability of coalitions to project power. In practice, holding many regions would be as difficult as forming new alliances to hold them, but more importantly, there are other factors preventing coalitions from growing to a certain point.  Frederick the Great once said he who defends everything defends nothing, which has been proven true for all previous mega-powerblocs in EVE: Band of Brothers, IT Alliance, Northern Coalition and the Drone Russian Federation all fell under the weight of their own dysfunctional power structures.  With a lack of real enemies came a lapse in discipline and FC experience.  Coalitions which aim to reduce their risk by eliminating threats end up losing the players who play EVE to fight.  These players eventually become the undoing of the coalition.

The second reason this is unlikely is because, unlike previous powerblocs, the CFC and HBC understand the importance of having real enemies.  They could certainly push through and dominate the eastern sov map.  They could do it together or separately.  They could do it without blues living in the region.  And they could do it regardless of whether or not the entire eastern sov map decides to blue up as one massive Anti-BadgerFuck Coalition (I hold all rights to this name, by the way).  But what they would rather do is have non-HBC/CFC entities living, growing and fighting in an uncontrolled region of the sov map that can provide a real threat, either constantly or in relatively frequent regional conflicts.  What this provides is the context for the respective coalitions to remain together, because otherwise, the only thing left to fight is blue.

And the reason why this contingency isn't even worth worrying about, should it come to pass that the HBC and CFC control the entire sov map, is that it would guarantee an HBC vs. CFC war.  Whether or not this war is "sanctioned" (think of the never-ending war between Red Federation and Blue Republic of RvB) is irrelevant; belonging to either the HBC or CFC would still enable you to fight in large-scale fleets, small gangs or solo.  What would be the difference between this and the current 0.0 situation?  If you wanted your alliance to be aligned with nobody, NPC regions will certainly provide.  Would there still be a Tech cartel?  Absolutely, but the recent alchemy changes ensures that Cobalt forms a ceiling above which Technetium cannot climb. 

In short, it's time to stop worrying so much and learn to love the NAPfest.

Hilmar Keller
The blackest member of Kugutsumen.com.