Examining the New Bounty System

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Not handing out kill rights for popping ships in lowsec sounds good.One of the reason I have reservations about pirating in losec is then I have to wait a month before flying a non-cloaky hauler through Highsec just to be safe.Will it encourage people to live in lowsec? Probably not because it doesnt have the isk incentives to balance out the risk of living in an area that is known for being the most dangerous part of EVE to live in.I can see this coming as a minor nerf to suicide ganking if people are willing to put the time in to probe down the location of hte Talos's being used to gank a freighter.It will more likely affect the solo gankers in tornados outside jita, they will have to be careful to not get ganked by someone who buys killrights, which in Jita means htey have to watch out for every killmail whore on the undock.Bounties wont just be in highsec, they can also be collected in low and nullsec, many people seem to forget that in their comments on the new bounty system, often focusing on killrights in highsec rather than bounties having a purpose beyond looking like a badass
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People worried about player alts clearing their own kill rights will need to set the kill right price high enough to deter this practice, so they are ganker is essentially paying the victim an exorbinate amount to travel safely. However, set it too high and it won't cause the ganker any grief, because no one will pay the price. Gotta find the sweet spot, or place a huge bounty in addition to the kill right price.Also, it will be interesting to see the tactics around busy gates, trying to get players to buy a kill right you put on yourself with an alt, and warping away for 15 min with a stabbed cloaker. Since bounties pay out based on a percentage of ship/implant value, the more expensive the ship, the juicier the target.All in all, I'm excited, might add for some fun distractions while traveling through high sec.
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Our corp actually got the rare chance to use kill rights last week -- one of our players had been popped in a hauler a couple weeks before, and we had a > -5.0 player sitting in low-sec on a high-sec gate. We engaged him and knocked his Domi about a bit, before he jumped into high-sec with the knowledge that none of us would survive to engage him there. Little did he know that we had a long-pointed, dual-webbed ship with kill rights on the high-sec side. His Domi got shredded by the police over a hilarious minute.On-topic, though, the changes to the Crimewatch system are obviously designed to make PvP in high-sec and low-sec more straightforward and the bounty system more efficacious. Both of these can only result in more pew-pew.
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Is a kill right awarded on first salvo or the destruction of the ship? Neither this or bounty is going to change high sec, it will just make existing mechanics more visible.A carebear mission runner with a bounty is STILL a concordoken awaiting to happen. Please bear that in mind. Although I look forward to reducing shielded pos towers in empire to a bright blaze of atoms (with a war Dec fee included)
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Bounties can be placed on anyone. They pay out a portion of the ship killed. Question is, if you stick a bounty on a high sec miner, does suicide ganking them become profitable for a third party ?It's still a net loss of ISK, especially to the bounty issuer. But if a miner angers one person enough, say by stripping all the ore from a belt to the detriment of other miners, it could be worth it.
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:ALT's:
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Actually, the whole premise behind the current crimewatch 2.0, in combination with the killright system, is beyond retarded and so obviously designed to make non-consensual PVP etc in hisec a thing of the past.First of all there's the fact looting a can or a wreck means you're attackable by anyone in the vicinity as you're tagged as a suspect the instant you do so. Apparently, for some reason, the entire corp of whomever got something stolen having access to shoot you wasn't enough. This is also a direct attempt at a nerf to hisec ganking for profit, since there'll always be the chance of someone shooting the hauler, which in turn means there's double the risk of no drops at all.Secondly, if the wording in the devblog means what I think it means, then if I were to get ganked, I could then spend the next 30 days just dogging the ganker and activating the killright whenever I wanted to. Barring that, if the money people would spend on activating the killright would go to the owner of the killright, all I would have to do to grief the everliving fuck out of someone is make an alt, give that alt 1b or so, stalk the ganker, activate the killright whenever it is convenient and transfer that 1b back to the alt, ready to reactivate the killright again at a later date.Or, of course, the ganker can pay me 1b to gank his own shuttle, I guess.Essentially, the gist of Retribution is one of a heavy-handed (and thinly veiled) attempt at removing hisec aggression without breaking the promise Stoffer made of "never removing hisec aggression" through wordlawyering.
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CCP should freeze all current bounty collection until the new system is implemented. it would be a nice surprise to all those with vanity bounties at the moment if they cant collect the ISK before the new system starts
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To me these changes sound pretty brilliant, but then I was a fan of making bounties work anyway. The main concern is how ship prices will be evaluated. I am reminded of some hilarity related to the manipulation of rarely used goods' prices a few patches back.Hopefully they'll add being able to bounty hulls soon, too(ie. you try to buy a ship on contract; cheap price but oh my it has a large bounty on it!)
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This new bounty system makes me quite ancious and quite pissed. I have a RL enemy ingame who I know has wardecced my alliance many times and even tried to gank my miners and pilots with smartbombs in HS!! This psychopath WILL use this new bounty system to toss bounties on my pilots just to harass me. CCP has been informed on his actions and I've even filed a report with the danish police since the fucker threatened me in real life. How will people like me be able to "live" in peace in EVE for this kind of "new" harassment method?
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Get some friends. Shoot him (in game).The bounty placed will not change how much you can be attacked in high sec. The methods for people to collect the bounties that may or may not ever get placed on you will still allow you plenty of time to recognize you are being targeted (for instance, being war decced) and respond in kind.Eve is probably one of the only environments where you can actively take the law into your own hands. If you are being RL stalked and threatened by this person, EVE allows many avenues to protect yourself, and maybe even take offensive action even if the authorities out in the world do nothing. But you're going to need to make some friends.
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Highsec becomes more dangerous for the criminal/gank types, less dangerous for the mind your own business types. If gankers are complaining because CCP gives them more pvp opportunities with the penalty of making ganking more dangerous, is that a bad thing? That's what the debate needs to be framed around.
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gb2 battleclinic
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If he was really -5 or under then anyone could have pointed him.
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My biggest concern with the killright system is the fact that as soon as a killright is activated by anyone the target has a whole 15 minutes to go get killed in a rookie ship and void the kill rights. Complaints that victims will be able to use it to harass them throughout an entire month are basically unfounded.
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"limited group PVP engagements in hisec — the only place in EVE where such a thing is still possible"you misspelt wspace
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Killrights today are utterly useless (giving kill rights to someone who didn't even get a chance to lock you just rubs salt in the wound for the whole month they have it), that it's really hard to imagine _something_ useful not coming out of the changes there. They might, as you note, become as meaningless as they are today, but I hardly think they will make hi sec very much safer.The majority of complaints against the new systems come mostly in the form of FUD from gankers and assorted ruffians, who are used to travelling freely about empire after carrying out their dastardly deeds, and whose activities generally carry little to no actual risk. Gankers have been telling their victims to become better organized for years now, it's high time they themselves also consider how they go about their business.
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I am underwhelmed by these changes. Bounty Hunter is still not a viable profession at all.
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I, too, like to offer one-off statements with no explanation, reasoning, or evidence.
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Care to enlighten us?
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You could list every situation where your real life enemy has threatened you personally both in and out of game as an attempt to persuade them to change your character name. You MIGHT need to move to a different corp/possibly alliance or have people tell your enemy that you've left the game.It sounds a bit like griefing IF you can document each occassion where his use of existing and legitimate ingame mechanics spilled over in to real life events. Include a police reference number as well.Hope it can be sorted out, grieving might be a way of life in Eve Online, but you shouldn't be harrassed out of the game by one bad apple.
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Yes, that's an option - but if someone suddenly puts bounties on my pilots and / or my corp, I may be able to get my corporation into the nullsec alliance where I have my main characters. It may be nesessary to recruit additional members so the corp will rise in numbers. I have several options available. But thanks for the info, Sidrat :).
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Actually I don't think the bounty or crimewatch changes will have an appreciable effect on the amount of pvp in hisec, or at least not decrease it. By far the most direct suppressant of good pvp in hisec so far has been the absolutely absurd war cost scaling, making wars by people who are not yet certain they can win a thing of the past.
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What about the golden goose that no one seems to be mentioning here? The potential to simply toss a bounty on the head of someone merrily chomping on rocks in high sec like its something to do. Followed by a cascade of excellence that ends with dead miner, collected bounty, and delicious carebear tears.Unless I read the dev blogs incorrectly. It sounds to me like this could happen.
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"Gank victims won't do it so CCP will do it for them."
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"So bounties are being more or less fixed and made relevant again."Were bounties ever relevant?
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Hi Michael. I suggest a two pronged approach to your RL enemy. In Eve take your corp and join a nulsec alliance that is NBSI - in game problems fixed. In RL go to your local MMA gym and learn to fight, make sure you spar regularly and train consistently. After 6 months go beat up your RL enemy - out of game problems fixed.

Iam Widdershins here, back again to give you the rundown on the other big new mechanical changes coming with EVE Online: Retribution in December: Bounties and killrights, detailed by CCP SoniClover.

Most people reading this will already be aware that the bounty system in EVE has essentially been useless from the outset. Bounties can only be put on characters with negative security status, and collecting the bounty requires that the person actually be podded — eminently rare outside nullsec, where there is no particular motivation to attack and pod anyone over anyone else regardless of bounty status. Outside nullsec it is actually illegal to pod, again regardless of bounty status — unless the target is already an outlaw, in which case it still makes little difference in the actual motivation to hunt and kill the target.

Not only all this, but any sizeable bounty is effectively a donation to the party you're supposedly inconveniencing. All the guy needs to do is get himself podded out of an empty clone by an alt or a friend and collect the ISK. The largest bounties in the game are all advertisements or ego-trips, and any effort to hunt down the characters in question will be utterly futile.

Killrights are also broken. They're only awarded if you don't fight back, they are only a 1-on-1 affair, and the chances of ever seeing the guy again outside of the same outlaw gang that wrecked you the first time are slim indeed. Fulfilled killrights are rare to the point of absurdity.

All this will soon change.

Fixing bounties

In Retribution, bounties will pay out based on ISK lost upon the destruction of ships and pods. Killing yourself to claim your own bounty will be break-even at best, and probably not even that. Bounties will be more visible and will pay out multiple times until the bounty pool is depleted. Large bounties will not only mean you may be effectively bountied in perpetuity, but the largest bounties will confer a bonus percentage encouraging career bounty hunters to prioritize pursuing them. The only way to clear your name of this will be to unsubscribe for five consecutive months, returning the ISK to its original owners. Harsh, indeed.

You will also be able to place bounties on corporations (minimum 50 million ISK) and alliances (minimum 500 million ISK), each one conferring the same bonus structure for highest-bounties as player bounties do. Placing a bounty on a corporation or alliance creates an excellent incentive to declare war on them or hunt them actively as killing their ships and pods can generate some pretty handsome payouts from the wallets of their haters.

Bounties won't have a lasting impact on large spaceholding alliances who frequently get into clashes causing hundreds of losses, but for smaller skirmishing alliances and corps/alliances in empire space this could indeed have a significant impact on others' interest in fighting you.

So bounties are being more or less fixed and made relevant again. Excellent. This brings us to the more controversial aspect of the dev report:

Killrights: making them matter again

As I already described, killrights have long been the best part of useless; this is about to change. Killrights will now be saleable to anyone for a price. This price can be anywhere from free (which allows the target to activate the killrights on themselves and lose only a rookie ship, clearing their record) to absurdly expensive (at which point you probably shouldn't have bothered offering it for sale). At a reasonable price it offers vigilantes the opportunity to activate the killrights on a target they find in any space (or at the very least any empire space), immediately making the target gain a Suspect timer for 15 minutes and allowing anyone to shoot them. If they succeed in killing the target's ship, the killright is fulfilled; if not, the buyer loses their money to the seller and the killrights live on. (The original victim and owner of the killrights can opt to activate their killrights at any time.)

If you feel like there isn't any good price to choose where people will be willing to purchase rights but the offender themselves would not, never fear: CCP has plans to iterate on the system, probably in the quarter-patch or half-patch, to allow you to restrict who is able to buy the killrights thus preventing the killer from clearing their own name on a whim.

Other plans that were outlined: Putting bounties on specific structures, and allowing for privatized bounties that restrict who can claim in the same way that killright purchases can be restricted, providing rewards to a specific party rather than as a blanket applying to everyone.

What should we feel about this?

I have real reservations about certain of the blogging community's interpretations of these changes. Virtually everything is interpreted under the laser-focused lens of "CCP wants to turn hisec into a fairground MMO." Even descriptions of the new ability to bait people and earn money by selling your own killrights are tempered with the saddened warning that CCP probably will ruin that too because they want everyone to be safe and cozy and happy and are prolifically anti-fun. I could hardly disagree more.

Coverage runs in the vein that both the bounty changes and the killright changes will serve to reduce PVP in hisec and are specifically built with a nerf to freighter-ganking and PVP shenanigans in mind. Personally I don't see how killright changes could possibly affect freighter gankers as they generally go GCC the moment they land on the field anyway; the Crimewatch changes that give indiscriminate global timers to looters will have a vastly greater effect on freighter ganking than any of these changes ever will.

Further complaints that these changes only serve to drive PVP out of hisec are unfounded: killrights will become much more uncommon, as well as more meaningful, since they are only awarded to suicide gankers and those who pod-kill fleeing innocents in lowsec. Killing ships in lowsec will never give out killrights; bounties in hisec will only fuel the fires there, giving ever more excuses to bring the fight to players and organizations encumbered by bounties placed by their enemies.

No, I believe the greatest threat to hisec PVP both at present and in the future lies in the exorbitant scaling of war costs that create an absurdly high entry barrier into limited group PVP engagements in hisec — the only place in EVE where such a thing is still possible. You'll be hearing more on this in the future.

[name_1]
I am a member of Project Nemesis, a small and dedicated PVP organization with a long and storied history. I have an in-depth knowledge of ship fitting, small gang warfare, and most game mechanics. I have a strong interest in improving hisec warfare.