Dust 514: Why Should We Care?

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Well CCP is definitively doing a lot of things wrong these days. Eagerly waiting for Incarna 2.0
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I still play. And wait. For a better game.
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I don't think CCP is doing things "wrong", they're just not fixing things fast enough and console FPS players are not known for their patience
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Yep.Maybe a tad harsh, but truly only a tad, on PC. Planetary Conquest was effective at sprouting a metagame, there are politics and meetings between corp/alliance leaders. The battle to boot CRONOS out of PC was heavy in metagame. Problem now is more the fact that metagame has been stunted. There need to be more way to experience PC for one (Aka, make it financially viable to raid, and allow it to have some impact on the income of attacked district), but obviously there is much more then that.One thing that rattles me with CCP, is whenever they introduce a feature they decide to take an old one out. When they revamped skirmish back in closed beta, they took the old skirmish (a mode similiar to rush in BF series) out. Why not keep it?When they put in PC, they took out the old gamble/CW mechanic. Sure it was tied to FW and they made FW marginally better so did away with that, but why not make that a separate feature in general, not neccisarily tied to FW?And they really, really, really, really, need to get new maps and get a -real- random generator to keep things interesting. Not just the same bland environment, same layout, with the a couple different buildings.THey also in general need to take some risks as you were saying, get some big features out there. This is shit they should of done back in beta, so they would of gotten feedback earlier.
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This game started to failscade yet ? ... it has to come to PC or it will die!
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http://crossingzebras.com/2013... (written by a great dude who owns on twitter)http://poeticstanziel.blogspot... (written by Poetic Stanziel)The game is in a bad state, it's a fully released product so the whole "it'll be good in a few years" argument is invalid. The game has serious fundamental flaws at even the most basic level of gameplay. Had this been a pay title release, it would have been one of the worst reviewed games of all time.
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http://mrgimbleb.blogspot.com/... I'll throw my own one in there too.
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Honestly, having played eve for a number of years, and now DUST...I'm enjoying Dust. Its some good fun w/ IRL friends who can't buy a full priced game. The combat is varied and intricate enough, and the skill tree is deep enough that we're having a ton of fun with it.That said, there are huge problems with the game. However, over the years, I've gotten good at waiting for CCP, and I can do so for a while longer. All in all, the points this article makes are accurate, but I think the conclusions are a bit premature. Think EVE in 2003.
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Not to mention that after ccp put dust on tranquility lag and tidi became much more common things, common and horrible.
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Damn. This is what I first thought of when Dust began to be a thing - that CCP's patient iteration and SoonTM dreams that never get realised wouldn't be tolerated by any community but Eve's. I can't imagine another game getting away with the slow buildup and massive collapse of walking in stations. We're used to waiting for CCP, but a regular game community isn't going to put up with it, and they have a point.
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perhaps its because your "regular gaming commuity" is a bunch of IWANTITALLANDIWANTITNOW 12year olds that have yet to learn that good things come to those who are patient?
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When I found out that DUST was not made ​​for PC, i lost interest in it. I can not even pull myself together to read the full article. DUST is dead to me!
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Aye it is awful, my m8s are all gimpy COD heads and i talked them into starting chars and giving it a go, we lasted about an hour and realised the game is god awful, its a shame, like eve, it has potential, but unlike eve it doesn't draw the patient player, FPS is fast action packed and dropped when the next game comes out, this game with enough time could be great but it will be dropped within 6 months, or it will pull ccp down with it.I would like to know how much isk was poured into this game for it only to fail miserably and ofc can ccp afford to scrap it if it turns into a dead horse.
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The problem is, they are still called that evil nasty word "customers" and a lot of them aren't 12. No matter how much you hate the youngins with little patience, they get subscription numbers bought, get shiny gold ammo and such bought and provide targets if nothing else for any game they are in. DUST needs bodies and buyers and you need to move into the real world of online gaming.
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But you can take the time to post a comment?
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My gut tells me that PC will become part of Sov Mechanics, whenever they get around to revamping those. That would make Dust very very interesting, imo. Its the prefect environment for smaller entities to severely harass larger entities. Insert a small force, hit some planetary structures, and move on. The real problem I see with Dust is that it exists in its own vacuum. Even with the beginnings of PC, there is still a very big disconnect. Dust will never integrate into EVE until the isk barrier is removed. Until then, there is no point for either community to care.
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Isn't meant for PC.
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There are a hundred reasons why that could be just a coincidence. But then, it's CCP what we are talking here.
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What happened to the whole "you could conquer the universe" yet they only allow one small region. I was also looking forward to the ratting aspect that they had me excited for, but nope none of that. Maybe that has changed since I've stop playing over a month ago...... sure doesn't sound like it though. In the state that I left it, after the full release, it still feels like an alpha game. Has CCP ventured into territory they can't succeed in?
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I've found it was more after the Odyssey expansion that lag became more prominent.
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In the state that it is in, Almost think they should have just worked on "Incarna" instead.
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I know CCP thinks it was imbalanced, but with taking away the ability to shoot down an enemy MCC with conventional weapons they should bring back Skirmish 1.0 for PC.It was a far more fun game mode, and would make the difference between attacking and defending a district much more distinct. Right now it just changes what side you start on.Just because they found it hard to balance was no reason to get rid of Skirmish 1.0 considering what a fun game mode it was to play.
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EVE in 2003 had no competition. The 2013 FPS market on the other hand is filled with much stronger contenders. Combined with the fact that the few gamers who might be willing to put up with the slow iteration pace due to being used to EVE can't even play it because it's not on the PC and you have a recipe for disaster.
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I delight in CCP's downfall. A company that biased and corrupt deserves to fail.
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Perhaps it's a thing called competition. When for the same price I could drive a benz, why would I sit in a volkswagen bus that smells like hippy-shit?
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Actually from listening to comms and generally playing the game there are very few 12 year olds playing. So its not the 12 years olds who are being impatience, its the entire community of 20+ years olds who are getting fed up with ccp constant SoonTM. I was willing to ignore the games glaring flaws and simply post solution on how to fix during beta but the fact is CCP released this game, they have no right to hide behind it will be better down the road.
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One thing to add: They made a mistake focusing PC around one region. Basically your eve corp/alliance has to live around that region to be involved in dust, or deploy to it for fights. That is not very viable so they are losing momentum from every scattered eve group that could get behind some dust PC activity if it was not so far away. I have yet to see one battle report, however insignificant, where an eve fleet fought over the ability to own the space over the planet and provide bombardments--aside from the Caldari Prime event.Dust won't be viable until it can be integrated into the whole game including sov in some way. It can't compete on its own as a FPS. I agree they are at a critical point and need to take some risks for the next release....
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Uh-huh. Why are you here again?
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Except that there's no shortage of rival products out there offering good things today, with no wait required.
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uhh m8 if you think people will wait 5 to 10 yrs for a company to get their product finshed on the console market your nieve..Keep drinking that koolaid
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I've said it many times before: Uprising is "Planetary Conquest Beta" and it should never have been called the release of the game and sent out for reviewers to rake over the coals. It's so beta it hurts. If they waited another 2 or 3 builds to finally "release" the game, CCP wouldn't be getting so much crap. But nooo they just had to release on 5/14! Stupid.I see Uprising as just another problematic beta build. It can be fixed. In another 2 or 3 builds we'll be playing a much better game. It remains to be seen how much of the damage already done is permanent.
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yeah well, its not like we Eve players knew from the start that all this development time and devotion would have been better put into EVE, a thing CCP actually has experience with... oh wait, we did -_-
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you got me wrong here, i put "regular gaming comm" into quotes to emphasize that the EVE and Dust communities are not one of those. but still, enough is enough. it doesnt have to amount to Incarna-gate 2.0
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Other communities may not have as old a playerbase, true.Don't discredit the loyalty of the EVE-community though. EVE is full of bitter old grumps who keep paying because of what CCP used to be and the potential the game still has. It's one of those wonderful things about EVE, alot of people can see what needs to change and are capable of contemplating the results of changes - you could even say that we're experts at predicting changes in the game. That keeps subscriptions rolling wether it's through CC or PLEX.On top of that CCP, for the first few years of it's existance, had a reputation of not only listening to their playerbase and heavily interacting with it - but also co-developing the game with the playerbase and for the playerbase. There is this old mantra saying that they developed the game for us to fill it. Like many other things in EVE those old expressions are still paraded around but they are rarely realized in effect.Alot of that was lost when the company set their eyes on the outside market. Not only with DUST, WoD and Incarna but also with other market ploys such as the CSM, social-media presence and whatnot. The company still recruit from the playerbase and some of those player-devs (Raivi/Fozzie) have shown the company the positive side of the old direction (active playerbase-interaction through their own premium communication platform etc.), there are still plenty of issues.If we look beyond what they design for a moment there's something I have referred to as the "Unifex Paradox" in the past. While Unifex took over general direction of EVE he had a second important task that not as many players cared to notice: He was tasked with restructuring the company - the how. It may not directly affect EVE but it's indirect impact on the game is that much more important than any single patch since that deals with the development resource allocation and what they are capable of developing.I said it back when Unifex was set to undertake this change and I have pointed it out since his sortie from that role: CCP still seem to be very underdimensioned on the Game Designer and Programmer side. They are still continously pushing alot of lull in timely fashion - or at an impressive pace - but when it comes to core content they are postponing and failing to deliver. It's been like that in EVE for ages and it's no surprise seeing similar problems in DUST.If the company have an overdimensioned art-side and underdimensioned game development you will continue to see new weapons that do the same thing yet little changes to actual gameplay. That is something the company definately will have to deal with if they are to shed their lull-visionary (artsy, yuppie, lulzy) reputation that they have built up at the expense of abandoning their core-design player-interaction and dedicated or hardworking reputation that drew players into the game up until 2008.When we expect them to "re-focus on existing products" we don't really care about other titles or fancy pants - what we care about is them fixing content-design and not just placating us with new shinies, which seems to be the current "keep afloat" approach that has been undertaken wether we look at EVE or DUST. To me, that is still fancy pants and that's all they seem to be able to deliver with very limited exceptions (in all fairness, the Lowsec and bounty overhaul showed some core-design result: but it's one or two things in a sea of new missile effects, environments and shaders).The same goes for the FF-presentations this year, it's all vision without substance. The new Unifex was very good on the visionary side, but there's no substance, no roadmap and nothing concrete for the playerbase to predict and speed on it's way.It feels like they have 2-3 people more or less competent at dealing with core-design (game mechanics). An obvious overstatement of course, but it's undeniable that they are heavily underdimensioned in that department (compared to the amount of day-tripping visionaries, industry-idealizing yuppies and artsy hippies) and you may question the competence of some of the people involved. All credit to Fozzie, but how could he go from newly employed to being the face of ship-design (and rolemodel of communication) to entering into content-design? What does that say about the other exmployees or the management directing them? It makes me look twice for monsters under the bed at night ;).
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I got a bit overzealous at the end there, I guess that's what you get when you try to round off with some sarcastic musings after a far too long post, far too late at night.You should get the gist of it though: The reason we keep seeing lull is because CCP is overstocked on employees in art (and similar) while underdimensioned in game-design (and similar). As long as that persist we will keep seeing new weapons, new ships, new UI and other things that are awesome - when the core game mechanics are working as they should. Only then.If you have 30 art-designers and 10 game-designers you won't be able to change that. You have that problem everywhere, the CSM and Twitter are nice things - IF your overall communication over your own platforms (forum, ingame etc.) is working as it should. When it doesn't the rest is lull.
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Herer Here!!
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However, if they waited another two to three builds, it would end up being released as the PS4 hit the market and it would be even more dead in the water than it already is.
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1 c4n t311 u li3k c0d br0.Seiously though, CCP will have most of the major content in probably within the next year or two. Everybody knows CCP didn't want to release yet, and was under pressure from Sony to do so. If CCP can release a major content patch, and get it updated for the PS4, I think they'll be sitting just fine. They have a constant ~5k players online, which isn't terrible for where the game currently is. Its also giving eve great publicity.
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It's developed in UDK, which means that it's easy to port to other platforms after the exclusivity agreement ends. I wouldn't be surprised if Dust lands on PC almost immediately after the sony contract ends.
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well dust certainly doesnt look like CCP was "overstocked in employees in art".and yes, fozzie did a great job.
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I have a worrying feeling ccp will be doing a money to save eve kickstarter soon. Sadly us sad spacesubmarine nerds will be forced to donate, cause there is no where else for us to go.
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Dust could use a little bit of Ps2 idea, like the maps where you really feel you are over a big planed and can travel freely about in a big world. Dust feels tiny and unimportant.
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Just create a Planetside link for eve ;) To be honest Dust is to "small" for a world like eve
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This isn't Eve, it's an FPS made for console market and they blew it.because they invited a bunch of Eve players and a very select set of PS3 FPS vets to beta test it. CCP should have never divided its resources balancing two different control schemes in KB/M and DS3, because they both control like ass now.Most of the feedback they listened to came from the Eve player base because we filled out their stupid feedback surveys with bad ideas.I originally thought it would have been better if they had just went PC but it's pretty clear to me it would have sucked there as well because like the article says, CCP is afraid to take a risk and do something fun gameplay wise.
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Dusters want to deploy in mass from Corp on one side of battle,6 man Squad is not enough we want 32 man or 64 man deployments

THE DUST QUESTION

The greatest challenge CCP faces today is simple: how do we make people care about DUST? Unfortunately, CCP doesn't seem to know the answer and doesn't seem to be willing to experiment. Uprising has come and gone, promising a great revitalization of the game. Instead, it delivered numerous issues, removed functionality (anyone else missing corp battles?), and added a few "more of the same" weapons and vehicles that see either little use or little impact. Ah, but they introduced the start of a metagame to DUST! Surely that keeps the game interesting and exciting, right? Wrong. Within a month, DUST returned to the horribly familiar boring grind that existed in the latter half of Chromosome. DUST needs some help if it's going to support healthy growth and an interested community.

RUDE AWAKENING

It's time to wake up, CCP. Stop daydreaming. Planetary Conquest in its current form has failed. Corporations and alliances are abandoning their districts, leaving them to be snatched by whoever is left. Imperfects have exited, and my own corporation is following suit. Planetary Conquest simply doesn't provide the reason for a metagame that the dedicated groups crave.

There's certainly no DUST-ISK benefit. It costs 80 million DUST-ISK to purchase a clone pack for one attack, if you don't hold a district to supply you with clones. Speaking from a Goonfeet perspective, if we were not attacked on any of our three districts and free to just generate clones for DUST-ISK, we'd make about 24 million DUST-ISK a day. In order to finance one attack, we'd have to sit back and not be attacked for four days straight. To put it another way, three districts generating income cannot support defending a single district every other day by clone costs alone. Introducing the costs of the equipment and vehicles that are fielded in PC only makes it worse.

There's no enjoyment benefit either. Or rather, not much of one. Other than potentially fighting a competent and well-equipped team, a Planetary Conquest battle looks and feels like a public skirmish game. A stacked skirmish game with a coordinated team, but a skirmish game nonetheless. You go through the exact same motions and do the exact same thing. The only difference is that your teammates will be a lot more competent. It's nice, but with six-man squads, you can already get almost the same result in public battles.

As for awoxing, the novelty's worn off. Though Grief University set the DUST PC community ablaze, the fire's calmed down. Awoxing was adopted by other groups and used until the novelty wore off. Major groups aren't invested in their districts nearly enough to guarantee they'll fight during an awox, and CCP's band-aid solution to PC team administration killed all but the most dedicated awoxing attempts.

WHAT'S LEFT?

If Planetary Conquest is unable to pull in players and make them invested in the game they play, what is? To be honest, not much. Faction Warfare, though improved in Uprising with the astounding ability to choose your own team, is still insufficiently differentiated from public matches. A DUST player can't receive and use EVE-ISK or LP. They can't turn a system by themselves. The FW match itself is, like PC, just another skirmish match. Beyond FW and PC, DUST players have generic matchmaking battles in four similar game modes.

THE Future

DUST is a rather generic FPS with several grating flaws, developed by a studio with what appears to be little experience or willingness to take risks. It has no real reason for players to continue playing, nothing that makes the game important or gets players invested other than promises of a rosy red future. Everything is "far off" or "in our plans." EVE survived, no, thrived in this mindset because it had a niche. In EVE, you can do almost whatever you want with your space ship. The EVE metagame puts most MMOs to shame, and the emergent gameplay encouraged by CCP would get players banned if attempted within the worlds of their competitors. EVE can afford to wait. DUST is not EVE. DUST cannot wait. CCP, break something now. Experiment. Make it matter, or watch as it fades away like dust in the wind.

Eltra Ardell
As a member of Goonfeet, I am legitimately bad at EVE and DUST 514 alike. I spend my nights lamenting the removal of team-killing. I hope for its return and the addition of "emergent" gameplay. If you need me EVE-side, look for Katrin Ardell.