Cobalt Edge: the RAZOR Perspective

Avatar
R O G U E are cfc pets now?
Avatar
Excellent piece. Informative with proper explanations and back-story. Keep up with this quality of material and I think that you will attract many more readers.
Avatar
"As fans of good roaming, supporters of small alliances"What, Razor? Yeah I don't really believe that.The whole thing with ROGUE seems kind of surreal. Maybe I was in the wrong alliances but I don't remember nullsec ever feeling quite so much like a weird space office dominated by middle management.PvP players won't be interested in joining and F1 fleet people will go for the CFC or HBC. Of course if they build up they'll be a good killmail farm, which I guess is the idea. I still can't get my head around why you would want to offer yourself up to almost literally be space livestock.
Avatar
TL;DR As a ~propvp~ "upper management" I should dominate nullsec instead of those carebears-in-disguise cfc "middle management" wah wah wah
Avatar
Who said I should or want to dominate nullsec? Who said I was any good at PvP? What's with having to believe everyone is really upset whenever they disagree slightly with you? Why can't you discuss something with people without sounding like a generic insult robot?
Avatar
You might want to read the last part again.
Avatar
ROGUE needs to wake up and see they are next on the chopping block while the CFC musters the effort needed to drop the russians.
Avatar
Solar is already losing space as it is, so I don't think it really matters. The CFC could destroy the rest of the northeast with almost no opposition. They've just chosen not to.
Avatar
TL;DR Razor and IRC have bad history, during Tribute IRC CSAAs were blown up, IRC wanted revenge, RAZOR invades in response, batphones the rest of the CFC because they can't fight without a blob anymore.
Avatar
Yep, exactly.
Avatar
They have a choice :- either Razor takes all their space and do nothing with it. They're dead as a 0.0 alliance.- or they accept that they might have to defend against Razor/CFC roams in exchange or having a good chunk of space back, a more important place in their relation with IRC, and even a non structure shooting agreement assuring them that even if they loose badly against a CFC fleet, they won't loose more than ships. Basically, their carebears get to keep their 0.0 space, their pvpers get fights at home and their leadership/diplomats get a better position compared to what they had with IRC. It's not as bad as it seems.
Avatar
When I saw the title the first thing I thought was: "Havent we heard Razor's perspective on this war and it's progress several times already?"
Avatar
Pretty much CFC have sighed more NIP's, historically winter is always the most active time to play this game, and 90% of the sov. map is NIP/NAP'd, and stagnation is sickening
Avatar
They have NIP'd meaning they never have to defend thier space versus the CFC, meaning they likely won't fight them......... Have fun with you 10 regions of blue, didn't want to pvp anyways.
Avatar
You may want to also, they have NIP'd up, and can't force fights.
Avatar
You missed the important bit about the NIP you had agreed with Oldma, which included your infastructure POS's and which due to the failed leadership of IRC were not thought to be included in the NIP by IRC FC's. And Razor invaded because IRC attacked something that was in the NIP as far as they were concerned.But I have to say I did enjoy blowing your CSAA to bits...
Avatar
CFC is NIP'd to Solar, CFC I NIP'd to everyone, they dom't want to fight, and implying that they do is idiotic.
Avatar
shit alliance need propaganda? obviosly
Avatar
You're an idiot (not you sinsation)
Avatar
U mad bro?
Avatar
Heh, you try tellin the Goons that they aren't invited to the party, they'll crash it anyways, or didn't you learn anything from Delve this last time CFC was there?!
Avatar
I believe the term was "farmed"?...like cattle.I'm amazed at seeing these comments. Oh, we just took HB to "farm" IRC. Oh, we just blobbed HB to defend Razor. Oh, we just afk camped their space in force, the whole month before, to cut off their production...to get better fights.You don't have to defend your actions to anybody. Enjoy your new space or let Razor keep it, it doesn't matter.But please...please, work on some better logic and don't insult everyone's intelligence with these illogical explainations of your actions. You don't need to make them.
Avatar
Razor actually won. They destroyed the alliance.Why they have to justify themselves? So not to look like they got some help? (like couple dozen supercaps)C'mon guys, don't be ashamed. Not even PL goes to a fight without having a couple of dozen supercaps.Eve is about blobbing and brutal massacre. Razor can't do a brutal massacre themselves against IRC, so they got some help. Business as usual as far as I see.
Avatar
So you might be aware of the difference between being a "pet" and a non-invasion pact I assume? o.0
Avatar
Shit since 2005. Still in Tenal. Yeah, shit.
Avatar
Avatar
You realize CFC and HBC do that to each other already, but don't cry? May not be that bad then...
Avatar
On the other hand the CFC and HBC have ship replacements, huge fleets, secure space, endless ratting systems and lots of FCs. The recruitment standards for both those organisations is also so low as to be non-existent. Why would you join ROGUE instead of the CFC/HBC?
Avatar
*edit* Aside from the 'invasion' part I talk about here, I don't find any fault or errors in this article btwSo interesting fact, neither myself, or anyone above me (as far as they've said anyway) knew about "mass reinforcing" going on. I knew we hit the jump bridge in SF- a couple times, which I was OK with, because who wants a jump bridge there. But since I didn't usually have time to join roams, I didn't know they were shooting stuff like that.As for the "we thought it was an invasion". In my case, I knew that was not the case. If any of the alliance meetings were saved, I said as much very publicly.The fall of HB- was due to poor timers, and a lack of response from myself or any other FC. When the SBU's were first dropped, I had come home for lunch, I saw we had a fleet of about 70-80, razer had about 50. Fleet comp looked great, so when I had to leave, I didn't think it would be an issue. Razer had been dropping SBU's for fights for quite a while at this point.Unfortunately, no one engaged. Even when it should have been a "just go shoot the SBU and let them come to you" situation. Once that system got reinforced, the next timer was about 5am my time (I think, might have been worse). So I couldn't be there. No one else showed up either.The final timer, I had to come up with the plan, and we brought a good showing. but well, you see the fight in the video.So anyway, while I knew it wasn't a big push by CFC, there was one problem. Even if we did put up a good showing, the most I could ever expect is one full fleet from IRC. Razer could provide 2 on their own, and they had supers and capitals in the region now as well.On top of that, sure the CFC wasn't going to be there everyday 'pushing', but do you really think if we showed up with 250 pilots with 20+ capitals (or even worse, supers) that the CFC wouldn't light a few cynos and come with whoever is awake? That would be hard to believe.So without any help coming from any powerhouse, I don't really see what could have been done differently. Aside from months in advance, changing how everything worked. (remember, I might be SR-FC, but I was always an AFK SR-FC)
Avatar
Of course he is, Razor destroyed a CFC hunting reserve.
Avatar
When did I imply that?
Avatar
Wow, I know this story was told fomr the RZR point of view, but I can't beleive how off your assumptions were on IRC. IRC leadership was barely able to manage their jump bridge network, let alone an offensive campagin. They, like you, were looking for "good fights." You were their next door neighbor. Just as RZR constantly went to Cobalt Edge to PvP, they went to Tenal.The fact you guys got so butt-hurt that IRC went looking for fights is amazing. They dealt with constant harassmant from CFC, and when they decide to give some of it back, the story reads like you took offence.I will be one of the first to say IRC that lasted as long as it did ONLY because no one else wanted tehir space, but do not sit here and try to weave some crappy story where you were justified in taking down the eveil empire, or you were "putting them in their place." You come off as giant asses either way.
Avatar
Cobalt Edge: the Retarded Perspective
Avatar
shit and pet since 2005.lol Tenal
Avatar
Don't worry, ROGUE will fill out the herd just fine. Besides, who wants to shoot dead game anyway?
Avatar
The whole collapse was a failure at the leadership level through a series of poor decisions. Hi Oldma. Did not Nulli batphone AAA in Delve M1k3y? Are you not blobbing solar at this very moment with your coalition of blues and neutral blue NIP partners? Pot meet kettle.
Avatar
Irc is just so terrible. They don't even deserve any 0.0 space. Should've kicked them back to empire and/or forced them to pay rent.
Avatar
The real loss is the loss of goodwill between RZR and IRC. With the CFC controlling RZR as a slave alliance, the chances of small scale pvp is slim. It's not fun to fight a 4chan blob.
Avatar
The problem that the enemies of the CFC and HBC keep running into is that you are playing a completely different game. You are playing space knights or something looking for individual glory in battle. while the CFC and HBC are playing space empires. You cry about NIPS and NAPS and an endless sea of blues while we're creating civilizations complete with industry, infrastructure and culture.Genghis Khan and his Mongolian hordes were among the greatest fighting forces in the history of the world yet it is not his dynasty that rules those lands today, Civilization ultimately defeats barbarism, Organization and cooperation wins over individual talent.It's simple evolution those who are unable to adapt are displaced by those who can. Darwin has spoken and your way has been found wanting.
Avatar
"Plan" being forcing your FC to fight on the station in ahacs despite being told repeatedly by that FC that it was the wrong thing to do, that he wanted to go to the gate because ...armourhacsarmourhacsARMOURHAACS. No wonder your best pvpers left immediately after all that interfering.It would still have been a loss but not so horrifically screwed up as it was.
Avatar
That FC said -nothing- of the sort before the fight. In fact, he was only the FC because no one else showed up at the time. And if you talk to anyone who actually flys Ahacs such as Elo Knight, he would laugh at the "only on a gate in bubbles" comment. He also had never commented once on the SRFC forum. He put less effort into things than I did when I was logged off.Instead of disengaging like I asked him to, he just kept flying around losing ships till they were almost all gone. Hell, it seemed like he was actively trying to kill ships instead of... oh I dunno, docking.
Avatar
Oh and I will tell you what his only actual complaint was before the formup. "We won't get enough, not enough people have Ahacs"
Avatar
I was there in a Zealot, personally I would have bubbled the hell out of the gate and fought there, not because its the only place to fight with AHAC's but we would have been better off fighting there as they would have jumped through into us and we would have killed more instead of having them warp in to their optimals off the station and have to burn to them.Now I thought you were a good FC from the few times that I was in your fleets, so step back and get over your attitude as a member of AWE and think it through.
Avatar
The plan was to fight on station, with triage support. The station needed armor reps, so it made sense to have armor subcaps. If we fought at the gate, there would have been no carriers there, or they -all- would have died in a fire like the previous time. (as it stood, only i should have died since at no point were carriers supposed to have been engaged).If you think that sitting at a gate would have been enough advantage to kill 2 fleets of maelstroms, I think you are sadly mistaken. Initial jumpin gets you 5-10 kills at most. With TIDI, that initial lag advantage is reduced even more. Now you are just on your own, bubbled and if you can't keep optimal on a station, you can't keep it on a gate either.The plan was for the zealots to stay in carrier rep range, if the enemy fleet got out of range, the zealots could disengage by docking or warping off. At long range, the chance of them breaking 30 carriers was low. If they came in close, the zealots would have been in optimal range and torn them apart.Instead, the Chris took the zealots out of rep range, out of dock range, and into the optimal of the enemy fleets. (both enemy fleets at the same time)Until I died after the super caps dropped, reps were holding and I was able to keep everyone alive who broadcasted and was in range.
Avatar
It was a bad plan which for the second time I was forced to follow. We had enough sfi s to keep most of their fleets webbd down. It could never have been a victory but I was given ahacs and told to fight on the station. Absentee fcs overriding common sense from the ivory tower is part of the reason most of irc were so dissatisfied with the old guard. I was in ahacs. I HAVE to be on top of the enemy. Was like the bad old days. Ask any former IRC member who they would fly under and it would be one of two answers. BCpro or myself. I had busy rl prior to the fight so could not get involved in the planning. However when told the plan I had barely removed the palm from my face before cfc jumped in. Sat on station we were at the mercy and with alpha fleet reps are less than useless when engaged at long range. The only fleet that may have stood half a chance there on the station would be a fully bonused napoc fleet under a cynojammer.Tldr lrn2play
Avatar
Haha. You calling me an absentee fc is just hilarious. you missed that part where you never once posted in the FC or SR FC portions of the forums? Boy you sure put up your opinion in public now though! Right, after the fact.
Avatar
In the Q-V fight you noted that the carrier were not able to lock the Zealots fast enough, come on think back on that, there was no way that the carriers would be able to rep the Zealots, they have a low sig radius and that is the issue with what you are saying, how many sensor boosters did you need for that? And we would not have had two Malestorm fleets having us as meat in the sandwich in their optimals, at least we would have had that initial drop on them, yes we would have lost with those numbers but we would have killed more. He burnt into one of their fleets because there was two fleets and they were at optimal, they warped into the station at optimals we could not use the short range to our advantage which we could have had at the gate.I am sorry Millsy but you are wrong and I think Chris is right to say that we would have been better off fighting on the gate, notice the sentence better off. Let go of your dislike of ChrisAET and think it through. By the way I am not in Chris's corp nor am I in BCPro's corp.
Avatar
Forums online is.all good but ask the members on the front line and they care little about that. Gauging performance by forum posting alone is proof positive of the entrenched detachment within Irc leadership. Posting on forums does not an FC make. Particularly considering there was little.to no actionable response.to any suggestions I made even directly to HC.
Avatar
Well Wiseoak anyway. Oh that was indeed amusing.
Avatar
I thought it was Takhion, oh well...

(Editor's Note: This piece was sent to us by Intergalaktor of Razor; it should be interpreted as both an explanation from Razor's viewpoint of the recent conflict with IRC, as well as agitprop; the usual disclaimers apply.)

As reported over the last weeks, there has been a RAZOR Alliance (-RZR-) campaign in Cobalt Edge, which most parts of the community understood as an invasion. This eventually lead to the downfall of Intrepid Crossing (IRC). As these events wrap up, it is time to explain what really happened and how things will likely continue from this point forward.

The History

To understand why -RZR- pushed into Cobalt Edge, it helps to know some history and background of the area — more than just the knowledge that Cobalt Edge is (or was) a good roaming area.

IRC’s resentment towards -RZR- probably started back in the days of the old Northern Coalition in 2010 when Morsus Mihi and some other allies started an attack on Cobalt Edge. They staged out of RAZOR Alliance territory while they themselves were deployed in Curse. This invasion was more a half hearted attempt to alleviate everybody's boredom than a real attempt to take over all that space. However, IRC was pushed against a wall and had to call SOLAR FLEET (SOLAR) to their aid. Together with SOLAR, who originally let IRC take Cobalt Edge, the aggressors were soon pushed back out of the region.

Although no significant damage was done and the usual “roaming IRC space for good fights” continued, this might have left some negative memories in IRC leadership regarding RAZOR Alliance as a member of the Northern Coalition. When the Drone Russians Federation (DRF) invaded the Northern Coalition in 2011, IRC used the opportunity to set their sights on taking some systems and moons for themselves. While it made no difference, it was seen as backstabbing in a crucial moment by some -RZR- members.

Later on RAZOR became part of the Clusterfuck Coalition (CFC). When the CFC liberated Branch from White Noise (one of the DRF members who originally invaded the North in late 2011), IRC leadership decided to send over fleets to assist on White Noise in their defense. The reason for that might have been IRC being “a part” of the DRF or simply a fear that this might sooner or later lead to the CFC landing on their own doorsteps. However, White Noise rapidly fail-cascaded and no more IRC fleets were to be seen. Soon after, the liberation of Tenal started as -RZR- was looking to get back their ancient home land together with their CFC allies — and once more IRC came out of Cobalt Edge and turned up to fight them. Once the region was taken, IRC continued to hit -RZR- structures in Tenal. Annoyed by all this IRC involvement, and then by having to repair jump bridges and POCOs, -RZR- initiated a “payback” campaign in mid 2012 to “show IRC their place.” The CFC burned down several CSAAs and destroyed multiple hostile fleets attempting to defend. Assuming the message “must have been understood” the campaign was finished and hostilities in Cobalt Edge calmed down to the usual background noise of roaming gangs.

When the CFC decided to remove Northern Coalition. (NC.) from Tribute and Vale of the Silent in late 2012, IRC leadership seemed to have forgotten the message. They had the feeling they needed to help NC., once again in order to avoid a CFC invasion in Cobalt Edge. Hence, they established deeper relations with NC. in an attempt to fight off the CFC, and eventually killed a -RZR- CSAA in a joint operation. Unfortunately for them, their involvement was unable to prevent the loss of Tribute and Vale of the Silent to the CFC.

This is NOT an Invasion!

After the war, NC. moved to the southern parts of EVE and IRC was left alone in Cobalt Edge as the only alliance who had been involved without losing significant assets (aside from a couple CSAAs). Back home in Tenal, -RZR- had a nagging mistrust of IRC and felt something needed to be done as IRC continually pounded away at -RZR-'s POCOs, jump bridges, and smaller POSes in the A1RR area. Any doubts were thrown away once intel arrived that IRC was now scouting CSAAs in Tenal and some of their FCs were discussing how they would be able to take on -RZR- with their 3800 members. While a serious invasion of Cobalt Edge would have been the most direct and obvious approach, this posed several problems: -RZR-'s allies were not really interested in killing their “IRC farming grounds”, something like 10 midpoints were needed to move supers to Cobalt Edge, there were a lot of systems to grind, and last but not least was the wish to respect SOLAR's backyard and maintain good relations.

RAZOR learned a lot in the wars over the 7 regions conquered by CFC in 2012. Solid intel from inside IRC gave insight on how they worked and where their weak spots were, and it was decide that a war of attrition would be the best approach. This meant carebear systems in Cobalt Edge would get permanently camped, jump bridges constantly incapacitated, IRC members forced to repair structures in subcaps, and eventually the entrance systems reinforced to bait fleets out in order to completely demolish them. The goal was to cause expenses for the IRC members, demotivating them and ultimately driving them to drop their alliance. The goal was to drive a thousand or so members out of IRC, dropping them to around 2800 pilots, then sign a deal with them. At first things went slightly better than expected; the state of IRC's leadership was far worse than intel had suggested. SOLAR was busy elsewhere, and probably still upset about IRC helping NC. against the CFC instead of helping SOLAR in their fight against NC. that was occurring at the same time.

The event that really tipped the balance in -RZR-'s was certainly the HB-5L3 station fight. Expecting a lot of IRC allies to show up, CFC allies were asked to “join the fun”. The result was two -RZR- Alphafleets and Dabigredboat's supercarrier fleet roundly demolishing IRC and allies without the slightest chance of victory for IRC.


 

EVE-Kill battle report

This event was not only demoralizing, it also caused IRC leadership to believe that they were up against a full-scale CFC invasion  the exact opposite of what was really going on. In a war of attrition, this was ideal. All that was needed was poking 2-3 more systems and the resulting panic was perfect. Members were leaving IRC faster than anyone could keep track, and -RZR- forces went on a little Christmas break while watching Cobalt Edge crumble apart almost on its own. With Vanguard Frontiers leaving after a rumored failed attempt to seal a deal with Black Legion., the alliance logistic and major part of IRC leadership was gone and the downfall accelerated. The aim had been to reduce IRC to 2800 members, but before you knew it they were down to 1200 members. Realizing that the war of attrition had inadvertently ripened the region for invasion simply because every non-CFC member there believed it was an invasion, the order went out to push into Cobalt Edge to “reestablish order.” Within mere days a third of the Cobalt Edge station systems were either conquered or reinforced.

Time to Reestablish Order

After arriving at the conclusion that it would easily be possible to take IRC's Cobalt Edge and Oasa holdings in a very short time, the question came up what to do with the space. RAZOR had no need for another 1.5 regions and there was no interest to get too far into the drone region's backyard. As fans of good roaming, supporters of small alliances, and saddened about IRC's fate, -RZR- started to look for a solution which would give IRC the chance to rebuild and give their more stable partner R O G U E (credited well for being the only IRC ally to turn up for fights) the chance to grow. Due to bad experience with IRC diplomats, the attempt was made to start negotiations through R O G U E leadership. They eventually approached IRC with the proposed deal, which suggested sovereignty transfers in exchange for time to move assets and a place to live and reform.

After some negotiations, everybody agreed on the following proposal:

All holdings north of CUT- will be transferred from IRC to RAZOR Alliance in order to create a buffer zone. All holdings south of CUT- will be transferred to R O G U E, giving them the opportunity to grow their alliance and have all their holdings together in one region. IRC themselves will get R O G U E holdings in Oasa and be allowed to keep the Oasa holdings of their main and their alt alliance (IRC-P), leaving them 6-7 constellations to live in and reestablish themselves. Assuming everybody sticks to the restructuring agreement, all parties involved agreed to not shoot each other’s structures to guarantee a “peaceful” co-existence in a politically stable surrounding.

With the new order we will hopefully see R O G U E as a new growing alliance and IRC managing to survive and reorganize in order to once again become fun guys to PVP with.

Submissions
Occasionally we publish submissions from outside of our dedicated staff. This one was good enough to pass muster! Feel free to send us quality pieces via the 'Contact Us' box.