CFC and HBC: As Above, So Below

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And the point of this article is??It reads like his forum posts with no point or direction.
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Interestingview
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remove the apostrophe from it's in the first sentence :)
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"Recent attacks and setbacks against the HBC by -A- highlight that they are growing bolder and are starting to once again believe victory is possible."I have not seen -a- around for weeks but people keep saying they're relevant again. I don't even.
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"patients and sanity"? Who's editing this?
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I say bullshit. I am a pretty typical CFC pvper. I got pretty bored of idling on a Titan waiting for NCdot to poke their head out. I admit I missed quite a few fleets in my TZ but you can bet your ass the first one of our structures that got reinforced I'd be there. I beleive HBC are in the same boat. Bored of staring at porn posted in local and would rather just bust a nut. But if -A- would dare to try to take back space they'll get smacked down but the much bigger entity.
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I could be mistaken, but I'm pretty sure the "85% voted to invade Vale" figure was from FCs and other leadership figures, not from the general population of the CFC.
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We have 500 leaders? Holy middle management Bat-man!
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I'm not a leader and I voted in it. The link was passed around the general members, it wasn't just leaders (as I assume leaders had already made their opinion clear).
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Haven't they been doing "stuff" in Immensea? That is kind of out of the HBC's sights at the moment but they took back a system I believe, which can be seen as being very "bold" on the part of -a-. Who knows, they might even fight in a situation where they don't have a greater numbers advantage (at least on a sov fleet scale).
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You're probably correct. However I'm glad HBC leadership don't take the same complacent attitude of "I'm sure guys will turn up if we need them".The CFC certainly didn't take that attitude at the end of the Tribute/Vale war either, or are you forgetting all the stuff telling people to stop being so lazy and just hurry up and finish Vale?
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This.-A- haven't really achieved any great goals, but the feeling is they are growing bolder in their attempts to fight back again, rather then each fight being a more pathetic effort then the last.
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It's a feature article where a writer (i.e. me) has given their opinion based off their experience of current affairs.These things are quite common in the media, though I do apologise if the article wasn't up to your standards.
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HBC call for the CFC to help you with those pity -A-. It will be an occasion to kick some -A- and Raiden. asses.
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I have 8 different bosses. So that means that when I make a mistake, I have eight different people coming by to tell me about it. That's my only real motivation is not to be hassled, that and the fear of losing my space. But you know, Bob, that will only make someone work just hard enough not to get reset.
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"As a member of Executive Outcomes, I am both a member of the CFC and HBC"yes we known that CFC and HBC are blues BFF
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I'm personally rooting for a Cloud Ring thunderdome situation with EXE being neutral.However I may suggest the coin flipping technique.
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Sorry to say but Raiden is a part of the HBC.
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CFC and HBC are not blue to each other and other alliances have shot at each other.
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They are essentially blue with the rules regarding sov war, bubble camping and what roams are allowed. If the CFC or HBC start laying down SBU's or anchor large bubbles on station undocks then people might start believing that they're not blue.
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EXE has transcended the threshold of the mere Petdom; these ex-IT pets have awakened as ascendant inheritors of the Throne of Double Petdom.Penif is still a bigger pet IMO though.
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You're completely wrong about the HBC. What you see is a boredom over sov warfare and Stainless/C0VEN's decision to ignore well over 95% of their defensive timers.When relatively tiny fleets of a few dozen Nagas, Oracles, or Tengus shows up to HED or TG- and the standing-camp FC calls for a true defense fleet, HBC pilots wiggle out of the woodwork to fight. Upwards of 200 people have looked around for spontaneous fleets at points, usually disappointed by the lack of a typical Drakefleet or non-Frigate/Destroyer formup.The absolute second a ping goes out for a defensive fleet against an honest-to-god -A- stratop and a mainline battleship doctrine is called, you're going to have four-hundred-plus pilots appear inside of five minutes. The numbers are there, and they poke their heads out for interesting pings. They (we) just know that -A- hasn't provided a stratop-level fight in over five weeks, that C0VEN/Stainless really only roam to catch lone, lazy pilots, and that, invariably, the formup will instead divert to a structure-grinding boozefest for the second month in a row.Just remember what happened the last few times the HBC pinged to fight -A-, particularly in the galactic East. Excepting for the final timer on C-J, on which a stupidly enormous number of frigate/destroyers showed up for a bluefuck Thunderdome, pilots (usually Drake pilots) were turned away in droves for fear of -A- simply docking up in the face of a third fleet on a spontaneous formup.At least two trial routs have been attempted; both fled before serious work began and now appear as simple roams that docked up upon enemy formup. What most pilots in -A- and the HBC alike don't realize is that -A- has actually been chomping at the bit for an opening; failure represents nothing short of an identity crisis in their elitist culture, however, and the horse has yet to successfully clear the starting box.At the mere mention of -A-, the HBC has--and, when a false alarm goes off, currently do--form enormous numbers of mad nerds curious as to why its (mostly) intelligent, breathing pilots are still drinking the salty, body-temperature Kool-Aid pisswater of the likes of Lee Chanka. It's horseshit, and it's absolutely maddening to TEST pilots who sacked them out of sovereignty and nailed them to a cross in NPC space.Yeah. TL;DR:TEST might be grinding very slowly through the vacant motel that is Stain, but it's because the place is completely undefended. No fights--not even the SBU spam and harassment ST0VEN lauded in their gamemail leaked to themittani.com. In TEST's mind, this, even Stain, is all about -A-. A rout requires a sustained effort; -A- has not sustained more than a regular ~roaming schedule~ (see: Ding-Dong Ditch) since early October.[end sperg]
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If you're reading this article from the perspective that EvE authors write solely for personal gain and the glory of their alliance, go back to EveNews24.If you're having trouble seeing an "agenda" betwixt the earnest criticism of the CFC, looming darkness for the HBC, and lack of personal statements clearly aimed to prove some kind of point, it's because there isn't one. Sometimes, people can actually report on an observation without stuffing it to the gills with personal opinions. Not everyone is Riverini.This is abstract, aloof musing. It's different following a thought train. The best columnists in the world pull shit like this constantly. Literate yourself.
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Actually in HED-GP it would take huge amounts of time for TEST to form a fleet and they would let the gate be camped by 5-20 hostiles for hours on end - with singular HBC pilots deciding to suicide themselves about every ten to fifteen minutes. I'm not sure if they've turned this back around in the last week or so. They've also had issues motivating their pilots to do the sov grinding in esoteria, which is understandable and probably to be expected. As far as Solar goes HBC support has been patchy at best, with both INK and NCdot recently losing corps and moons. This isn't to say that the HBC is about to collapse or anything. Plus it's unlikely that a- will be able to make any ground for months or years. But anyway, being able to form a 200 man fleet is actually a negative when your enemy can simply decide that it's too much and they'd prefer to do or play something else. Saying that you can formup 1000 guys is also meaningless in Eve. What matters (and the thing that sucks) with sov warfare is that it's all about numbers and how stubborn and bloody-minded you are, which are actually very closely linked concepts.
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it was close, it only needed dipo's to get solar on dotbros side, (why cfc touched base with them) or a few alliances in cfc to switch sides, or PL to come up and help dotbros, and the CFC would have lost the war. And i think this scared the cfc leadership
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Thanks for the well thought out reply.I largely agree with you that the outcome I mentioned of -A- making a comeback in unlikely, however I am inherently bias!On the other hand it's possibility worth knowing, because when you start thinking "it's OK guys, when the shit hits the fan everyone will turn up" is when you can, potentially be caught with everyone being absent.The HBC's continued success against -A-, in my view, relies on the fact that -A- isn't getting any real victories to cling to, start giving them victories again and it gives them the opportunity (not guarantee) to try and fight a come back. The changes they'd have to make are quite large and possibly controversial within -A-, but it is possible.
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Thank you for getting why I wrote it.The article is just to provoke some thought and sort of inform people at the same time.
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I didn't really have an agenda, other then saying the the HBC are in the same position as the CFC and writing an article to maybe provoke some thought from my readers. :)
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Goto war with N3. That should be fun right? \o/
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Not a bad article, except, who the frack edited it?
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So because solar fleet isn't laying down SBUs on goonswarm territory goonswarm and solar fleet must be blue?You are retarded.
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Mordus Angels got kicked out for deciding to take the whole "We don't need to show up to titan-hump" attitude towards the end of the Tribute/Vale war. CFC takes showing up seriously.
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How about because they fought against NCDOT together?They clearly were working together for a while to try and beat a 5k man Coalition between the 65k members they have....Sorry but that adds weight to the fact GSF hasnt allowed Xdeath to attack them now.Xdeath wants nothing more than to kill them and finish the fight that Xdeath eventually lost, so by GSF holding them back+all its past grouping up in spite of what Gypsy wanted+IRC both who were there very loyal very close allies, I`d say they are more Blue than Nuetral, until they are ultra weak and GSF can just walk into Geminate after SOLAR starts to crumble, then GSF will unleash the dogs.
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You can keep saying that the CFC and HBC aren't blue but nobody will believe it until one side or the other takes some sort of significant action. Has there even been a decent sized fleet fight between those two entities yet? Have the rules about JB camping been relaxed? Is roaming during 'strat ops' allowed yet? How about shooting moons to generate a fight? Is a HBC alliance allowed to stage near to the CFC to do an actual harassment campaign?And yes, Solar and goons are reasonably friendly right now.
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I think you spelled patience wrong.
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Used "patients" instead of "patience" :(
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I dont think you understand what you write yourself since most of that is wrongly informed maybe im biased since i am in -A- but you have not come to catch with any large fleet in weeks since we came back and started hot dropping every fleet we see. Your members have mostly been docked up and we have seen a very big lack of pilots in your fleets when pings go out from test since im permanenly watching your system and fleets.http://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_re... was the first big fleet ive seen you have in catch since we came back and you lost the fight, that fight you (TEST+pets) docked up and did logg off for the station only to escape 5min before downtime later that day. Your "MASSIVE" super blob you mentioned didnt drop on us while we did kill some of your TCUs. At that time we were about 90 pilots and you had more capitals then we had subcaps and another sub cap fleet of 190+ but didnt dare to engage us while we waited in 1p- and you knew we were there since we spammed about it everywhere for you to come. Instead you went south and did a station bash.You can look at my killboard since i am in almost every fleet (not the early EU fleets) to see what little resistance we have faced from TEST ( http://eve-kill.net/?a=pilot_d... ) and that atm its test that is "blueballing" almost every fleet we bring out specially when we get to your home system TG-. You only have defended it once with 4 times our numbers in Rokhs while we were in nagas and we broke even on isk ratio.Sorry if my english is bad but i never did learn it in school.
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This is like saying HBC and CFC are not blue.... Nulli and pangu are taking immensa under HBC protection and are basically pets (or minor allies if you prefer that term). Let the blue wave roll on!

(Full Disclosure: As a member of Executive Outcomes, I am both a member of the CFC and HBC and I was involved in the Tribute/Vale war. I haven't been personally involved in the war in the South)

In recent weeks we have seen the war between the CFC and it’s opponents has drawn to a close. While there hasn’t been a State of the Goonion speech from The Mittani yet I can confirm that there is a certain amount of smugness and backslapping within the CFC regarding the outcome of the war. In the end NC. caved as we all knew they would and we walked through Vale as we always expected to, right?

Rewind to the last weeks of Tribute before we moved onto Vale and my honest opinion is that it was looking grim.


It’s Not Over Until The Fat Goon Sings

I remember distinctly being on a fleet just before the fall of Tribute with a well known CFC Fleet Commander when they turned around and said in no uncertain terms that the war was a pain and he wasn’t even sure if he could be arsed to do it all over again in Vale.

I was quite shocked. The CFC is well known for being the most horrible group of alliances to fight a war against; we are an almost unstoppable force of dishonourable, blobbing, sov grinding, POS shooting, fleet welping, local spamming players who won't stop until your region has been burnt down (which I’m proud of by the way). Yet, here was one of the top FCs showing his resolve was faltering.

Looking back I get the distinct impression this was Vince Draken’s plan all along. Delay the CFC’s ability to take sov to make it a strain on both their player’s patients and sanity. Sure, you’ll lose most of Tribute, but they’ll sue for peace before Vale and you’ll get to be the plucky little alliance that stood up to the playground bully.

The best bit is it nearly worked.

As reported on TheMittani.Com a survey was ran of about 500 CFC pilots before the State of the Goonian The Mittani (the person not the website) delivered just before Tribute fell. The question was simple: Do you want to invade Vale? I was rather shocked at the results to say the least, because about 85% of CFC pilots voted in favour of the invasion.

At this point during the war NC. had burnt it’s bridges with most of it’s allies (or their allies sold their space to Goonswarm), and was facing an enemy who, despite an equally arduous period for NC. of asymmetrical warfare, seemed intent to push on into Vale regardless. In the face of such an opponent, Vince Draken made the smart decision to cut his losses and move NC. onto new things.


As Above, So Below

Now my HBC comrades are in a similar position in the south as the CFC was only a matter of weeks ago.

The HBC is reaching the end of a long period of structure grinding and sov warfare and its members are getting agitated. It has been fighting against the same type of “guerilla warfare” tactics used by the CFC’s opponent’s in the North where they are denied fights and generally harassed making the sov grind as painful as possible.

-A- has been saying all along that it will skulk off into NPC null and strike back when the HBC’s attention wavered. They have literally been saying that from the start and it’s what they’ve always done in the past. Recent attacks and setbacks against the HBC by -A- highlight that they are growing bolder and are starting to once again believe victory is possible.

The HBC were, if I may say so, doing a marvellous job of crushing the life out of their opponents. They were taking their space, their income and even their dignity. However my comrades are starting to falter, they are starting to ask “why are we doing this boring grind anyway?”

If they are not careful, if they are unable to bolster their resolve, they will give -A- the opportunity they need to drive a counter offensive back into the heart of Catch and kick out the alliances that the HBC installed there.


The Future

As soon as a coalition ceases to be seen as successful on the battlefield, you can be sure that cracks will start to appear elsewhere too. -A- both desperately wants and needs the opportunity to start being successful again, and if it get’s such an opportunity it could prove to be a turning point for the war.

I hope that the HBC won't be found wanting, for if the South turns into an embarrassing rout for the HBC, the consequences could be far reaching.

Hailed as both a "posting god" and a terrible poster I am a member of Executive Outcomes giving me access to two coalitions to bombard with good/bad posts. Out of game I have a Politics & International Relations degree and work in Risk Management.