Is CCP Shelving the POS Revamp?

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If CCP is to be taken seriously here, they need a better excuse than "not enough people use them"How many people were using bounties? Yet they changed that.How many people were flying bursts? Yet they changed that.If anything "not enough people use them" should be a clear indicator as to what to fix/improve in Eve. Either CCP doesn't realize this (which I doubt), or they are keeping a secret on this matter.
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Once upon a time, I ran a POS. It was early 2008, I had been playing for just a few months, and our little alliance tried to claim sov in a quiet, station-free corner of Scalding Pass. The POS was used for storage, manufacturing, and a pittance mining some terribly cheap mineral. For months, it was my home, and overall, I really LIKED the place. It was my own little nook in eve. But actually running and fueling the thing was soul-crushing, nevermind, the hours assembling and disassembling. At the end of that saga, I resolved to never run another POS again. Since then, I came close once a couple years later, looking at going into booster manufacturing, but the process was so terrible I lost all motivation and up and quit eve for awhile. I like the notion of POS, but the reality SUCKS. I really hope these promises come through...and I think it's incredibly false to think POS changes would only affect those currently running POS. Proper changes, well-executed would certainly make me want to own a POS again, and I know I'm not the only one.
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Personally I'm satisfied with CCP's response to the threadnaught:https://forums.eveonline.com/d...
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I'm not.Know why?It doesn't address the actual issue. The issue isn't actually the notion that they're abandoning the revamp from the start - I do not and did not believe that, really; I thought one of the other possibilities I mentioned was more likely, like poor messaging or not understanding how big of a deal it is to players.CCP has confirmed that they're not abandoning the revamp. And that's good to know. But it does little to address the comments of Unifex directly, which are concerning. They're concerning, because it shows a poor grasp of player priorities. And that's a bad thing.
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Once upon a time, I ran POSes (2006-7) regularly. There have been a few times since where I was tempted. A few months ago, I actually bought a tower and modules for it, hauled that and the fuel out to null. In the end, I opted to fly three regions (by gate) away to a quiet null NPC station to run research instead.
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Not only does the response fail to address the issue in a meaningful sense, it is a deliberate dodge to the *real* question. I don't think enough is being made of the fact that the CSM was not involved in the decision to drop this feature at all. The CSM cannot do their job if paradigm shifts like this are somehow hidden, to be sprung on them last minute during meetings.Also, in previous meetings incremental improvements to the POS system have been sidelined because "We want to address the issue all at once".I feel that CCP has pulled the wool over my CSM rep's eyes. We either need better communication between the CCP and the CSM or we need to vote in CSM reps who are capable of holding CCP's feet to the fire better.The VERY FIRST meeting that should be at every summit should have the main theme of "This is what we discussed at the last summit. Have we accomplished these things or made substantial progress on them?"I also think that the the CSM got bamboozled a bit here. The POS remap is a big deal, CSM should have had its eye on the ball a bit more.
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Working on what ?
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I live in a wormhole, so a POS revamp is relative to my interests to say the least. However, the disconnect Unifex has displayed with his comment is far more disconcerting than having to deal with what I'm used to dealing with. Decisions are being made with hilariously bad information and perceptions =\
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That wasn't for two step, trust me I know he's the OP. That was for everyone else.
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Promises us something amazing that will be really incredible guys. No really.Gets bored programming it. Starts chasing the next shiny.Is CCP.Wonders why people think they're terrible.
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Pretty pragmatic decision. While true few use them, if they sucked less more people would use them (loads of people would set up personal bases if they didn't need corp roles for them), also the affect everything from production, survival in wormholes, to nullsec.
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A good video by some Blues: https://www.youtube.com/watch?...
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i am 99% sure that they "haven't abandoned" POSes the same way they "haven't abandoned" incarna. they will release a statement like this once in a while for the next 5 years or at least till tiericide is done.
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I truly hope that before they fix pos's someone gives 2 minutes of consideration to fixing ice mining. If not, get ready for the dead chicken bounce about a month after this drops. Of all the gawd awful activities in eve, ice mining has to easily rank as one of the worst. I sure as hell wouldn't do it and don't know many people who would, which basically leaves the bots. And without fuel, or some other alternative, pos's don't work. Good luck when everyone wants one and no one wants to be the stooge stuck with doing the ditch digging grunt work to make it happen.
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You don't stop technological development because few people use your expensive, inefficient design. You make it smaller, faster, and more attractive so that more people want one. Current POS are like the brickphone. Your end goal is the Smartphone. There are steps in between, and getting there requires taking those steps, not curling up in the fetal position in the corner "cause it's hard."I didn't leave my home a shithole because renovations are hard and would take years. I started rewiring, correcting plumbing, and updating the old lathe-board and plaster walls because every hour I put into it was an hour that was done and brought me closer to finishing.The journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step, but the journey to the couch only requires passing the fridge I guess.
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I'm glad that CCP has chosen to shelve it as TwoStep kept trying to push his own agenda for it which was not on behalf of all WH corps, infact most hated his own ideas and the same goes with his ship ideas for the Tech 3's. Please people do nto give this idiot another shot at CSM!
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Gotta love the "so everyone wants one" Everyone did want a pos, but they are shit, clunky and do very little for the average player.

Unifex stated that what CCP did was spend effort and prototype what would make a good POS system. It would, however, only affect the group of people who manage POSes. Focusing that amount of time and effort on some small singular aspect of the game and delivering only that “is what will kill the business”.

If the interpretation of that line, found on page 37 of the CSM Summit Minutes, is the same as the interpretation shared by many players - that CCP is shelving the POS revamp - then, well...there's no dressing it up. It's probably the single stupidest thing I've heard come out of the mouth of a CCP employee since "Greed is Good".

We all know how well that one went over.

Back during Alliance Tournament X, Greyscale appeared between rounds to talk about his vision for POS. He wanted them to be modular. He wanted them to be fun and easy to use. He wanted them to be able to spool up and jump across the universe. Ideas like that are why quite a few players think Greyscale is a bit of a nutter, but the overall sentiment was very well received: He wanted a POS to be something everyone wanted to own. It sounded like a great idea, and needless to say, players were amped up about it.

All kinds of ideas spawned with regards to how this could be useful. I wrote a piece about how I thought CCP would nerf highsec slightly to encourage their use in that area of space, much like they nerfed NPC corps to encourage players to form their own. I got a comment back from a highsec dweller, and industrialist, who loved the idea. To him it wasn't a nerf - it was a buff! "Rather, one thing you are doing here is handing Hi-Sec industrialists a longer term career path. In practice I wouldn’t call that a nerf, I’d call that a buff." Incidentally, CCP seems to be warming to the idea - see page 45 of the minutes, where CCP Soundwave uses linear scale for refining as an example. 100% refines would become impossible, but NPC stations would be at the low end, with a fully upgraded outpost at the high end. No one talks about how great it is to be an industrialist in highsec when telling friends about the game - an actual progression path might be a good start there! Or perhaps they'll talk about the great war they had, hiring mercenaries to defend their industrial machine against the mercenaries contracted to destroy it - after all, structure bounties and mercenary contracts are something CCP has talked about too. A tool like that, capable of adding flavor and depth to highsec life, would be a great addition to the game.

Weaselior wrote a lengthy three part manifesto, focused on how many of the problems a POS revamp could solve for nullsec. Industry shifts to POS, helping to address the woes of local production. Conversely, those same POS, industrial by nature, are poorly protected, with "crunchy bits" that make them vulnerable to small to mid-sized gang action. With the implied modularity and ease of use, individual players get in on the game, as well as contributing to bloc-level industry and defense.

It goes without saying how beneficial any buffs to POS whatsoever would be to wormhole dwellers. I'd bet at least a few million isk that Two Step, the CSM's wormhole-focused representative, went back to his hotel and cried after that discussion.

The long and the short of it is that we've got some seriously conflicting statements. From Greyscale, we hear he likes the idea of everyone wanting to own a POS. Yet from Unifex, we're supposed to believe that it's "not worth it" because it would "only affect those that manage POS", which is of course bad for business because it's such a small group.

I have two responses to that.

The first is that that "small group" are the instigators and enablers that CCP Seagull wants to start building content for. Those are exactly the sorts of players who put up and maintain POS. Because they do what they do for other players, anything that helps them has a disproportionately large effect. Therefore, while they might be a small group themselves, labeling such actions as "not worth it" because they're a small group and because it would "only help them" is the height of folly.

The second response is really a newsflash to CCP Unifex: Deliver a system that gets even halfway to Greyscale's vision, and "those that manage the POS" would be approximately half of everyone, which is undeniably not a small group.

So, to CCP Unifex directly, two good reasons to put some focus on POS for you. On behalf of the playerbase, I hope that you reconsider. Or that I'm wrong about shelving them, and you just underestimate how much players care about the notional revamp. Or that it's actually all just bad messaging. (Perhaps you should have put more emphasis on the second "only" in your statement.) Regardless, the playerbase would appreciate some clarification. Not clarification of timeline - we get that if it happens, Summer and even Winter are unlikely. But clarification that it will happen would be welcome. Your offhand statement has created a lot of worry; why don't you take some time and address it?

If you agree, Two Step posted a thread (https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=194625) on the subject. Go make your voice heard!

 

UPDATE: We have received a reply from CCP Gargant here.

I'll leave the whole thing unquoted, but the gist of it is that they are not abandoning the POS revamp. This is good, and frankly this is not what I expected anyway! But please continue to show your support in the thread! Whether the comments of CCP Unifex are merely bad messaging or a genuine misunderstanding of how important the revamp is to the playerbase, CCP needs to be shown how much we care!

 

Mynnna
Seven year veteran & economics guru of EVE Online as well as CSM 8 representative. On the side I play PS2, WOT and Hearthstone.